I feel Veigar's E should have 0.5s warnings instead of 0.75s

Sasogwa··1 votes·761 views

So it's been a while since Veigar's been changed. Some players have moved on, some have continued playing him and being one who still played a bit of Veigar, but less than before, my general conclusion would be that he's still somehow decent, but unreliable. It's like.. He's not steady, he either needs his opponents to be a bit slow to react or his teammates to land CC for him to chain it.

It's simple, imagine if you take any other midlaner and slow down his spells a bunch, like Ahri's charm or Xerath's stun or LB's chain, you reduce the projectile speed by 1/3 and it feels slowish and too easy to dodge. That's EXACTLY how it feels to play Veigar now. He's not reactive enough (his E). Sure, he might have a lot of potential, but he is potentially completely useless if he can't land any of his spells, not because he's bad, but because no matter how good he is, sometimes it's just too simple to dodge his spells.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't say he's crap. I just say.. his E is a bit too long.

Also I know he received a bunch of changes right after his rework, and most of them being really good, Q's missile speed and range buff was very nice, as, well, it was too slow and range was too short before so gj Riot on spotting that out and improving it.

Also, about the delay, it's also been buffed, kinda. To explain that for those who don't know Veigar that well, his E has a cast time of 0.25 s. So actually, even before rework it wasn't instant ^^ At rework, they put 0.75s delay + warnings after cast time -> 0.25 cast time with no warnings +0.75 s delay with warnings It's been changed to 0.5s delay after cast time but warnings begin before cast time -> 0.25s cast time WITH WARNINGS + 0.5s delay with warnings. Overall, basically there is still 0.75s with warnings so it didn't change any of the time people can react against it. It just reduced the total time until stun comes out from 1s to 0.75s. Right now, it's like there is no cast time and 0.75s delay, it's equivalent (except you can't autoattack or launch other spells during 0.25s but that's unnoticeable) But it's still a bit too long.

What I suggest is, either : a) 0.25s cast time WITH WARNINGS + 0.25 s delay with warnings : 0.5s for ennemies to react, total of 0.5s until stun lands (it's like there was no cast time basically) b) 0.25s cast time WITHOUT WARNINGS + .5s delay with warnings : 0.5s for ennemies to react, total of 0.75s until stun lands

Overall, this change a) wouldn't change Veigar's damage b) would increase his reliability c) people have still a decent margin to dash/flash out so it still has counterplay

I don't know what I'm really expecting tbh because there's like no chance that Riot really watches this and somehows decides that I am right^^ But if you feel that would be a good chance you can always answer the topic and tell your opinion about it.

PS : this is a copy/paste from a thread i made in EUW, wanted to know the opinion about that matter in NA

4 Comments

The Shaving Kit1 votes

That's a valid point, but you must remember that with perfect reactions it should be possible to walk out from the centre of the stun safely. (without using dashes or blinks). If they changed the time to .5 seconds it will be impossible to walk out of.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

That's a valid point, but you must remember that with perfect reactions it should be possible to walk out from the centre of the stun safely. (without using dashes or blinks). If they changed the time to .5 seconds it will be impossible to walk out of.

Not so sure tbh. I think it would have a decent window to flash/dash out because it should be a threatening spell in anyway, kinda like morg's Q, ahri charm, and well, Veigar heavily depends on successfully landing E. I could be wrong, but 0.5 seconds sounds just enough to be able to have a reaction and not be called '0 counterplay' such as Annie Tibbers stun could be called, and short enough to make it rather reliable.

0.75 s does not sound long, but it actually is terribly. People just... walk out :o

Oh wait, I reread your comment and saw it differently. Uhm, in that case no I have to disagree. If Veigar lands the cage right with you at the center you should not be able to walk out of it, it would make it so freaking weak. But Veigar can not do this, because he puts himself into way too much danger.

  1. In lane, he does that : he's in range for tons of harass, and you can juke out his skills easily.
  2. in teamfights he wants to do that? Tank grabs him, CC's him, Veigar dead.

Usually Veigar does the cage with the edge close to the target, not the target in the center.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

the skill has a .5 animation delay, however theres also the .25s cast time which you dont see and is quite difficult to see. much later into diamond you might be able to see it, but most people cant tell.

if you want to shorten the total time from i click E to the stun being active to .5, meh, its not going to help much, gap closers get around the delay anyway, it would hardly have an affect, the same people will avoid it and the same careless people will still get hit.

Sasogwa1 votes

{quoted}

the skill has a .5 animation delay, however theres also the .25s cast time which you dont see and is quite difficult to see. much later into diamond you might be able to see it, but most people cant tell.

if you want to shorten the total time from i click E to the stun being active to .5, meh, its not going to help much, gap closers get around the delay anyway, it would hardly have an affect, the same people will avoid it and the same careless people will still get hit.

Actually the warnings occur just before cast time, it's been patched at 5.5, which is a bit ridiculous since the warnings are very visible, removing cast time and putting the delay to 0.75s would be exactly the same. The description of the spell is very bad, and a bit hard to explain. There is 0.75 s with the warnings (the particles in circle indicating where the cage is gonna land), while it says 0.5 sec in the description.

Patch 5.5 Delay before walls appear decreased to 0.5 from 0.75. Warning particle display now occurs on cast rather than after cast time -> warnings come 0.25 s sooner, since the cast time is 0.25 s so overall the opponent has still 0.75s to react, as I explained in my original post.

TLDR : you DO see the warnings during the cast time and I find that shitty. Actually, I could have made the topic much simpler by saying : we see the warnings during the cast time, and it shouldn't act that way (especially when the description of the spell doesn't mention it at all, it's like a lie). Remove warnings during cast time !

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