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Imagine if Draven's Q could crit with the bonus %AD damage critting as well

Sasogwa··139 votes·5,342 views

That'd be broken beyond belief right? Insane crits oneshooting people ! That'd be... like vayne?

92 Comments

PermabannedGaren39 votes

I mean, Draven already has the highest DPS in his class.

Vayne? Fuck Vayne.

She wishes she could put out Draven's damage in a fight. He only falls off in comparison because of how ludicrously unsafe he is, as well as how hard he is to play.

Also, Draven sort of did nearly one-shot squishies last season (maybe now that youmuu's is garbage on him he can't).

ArnoldSchwarzens42 votes

Yeah, always loved that about him.

Every marksmen has something that is meant to be their defensive tools, their sort of self-peel. Maybe it's utility like on Sivir and Ashe , maybe it's high mobility like on Lucian and Vayne , maybe it's high range like Caitlyn and Ezreal . In most cases it's a combination of several of those aspects.

Draven says fuck that. Yeah, he has a decent hard CC on his E and a minor speed buff on his W but that's just it. Draven doesn't defend himself with utility, mobility range or any sort of self-peel. Draven just deals so much fucking damage and has so much life steal that THAT IS HIS PEEL. Talk about manly.

The 2nd Horseman24 votes

Naw manly is for pussies, he's Dravenly

Saianna6 votes

minor speed buff on his W

You mean about MS debuff cleanse + speed boost? It's like shorter Masters Yi ultimate...

Minor my ass.

Ackelope1 votes

it isn't an MS debuff cleanse, but it is pretty impactful, since it can get constantly reset by catching axes, he'll almost always be running faster than the average adc and have a potentially permanent AS steroid.

Serika Zero3 votes

what self peal you need when the enemy is displaced enough for you to wave in 3 auto attacks dealing over 1000 dmg each >.> draven fanboys, righting clicking must be hard.

but vayne cans till Q click draven and Draven is dead unless he hits his E on her...... oh wait, she's invisible ;)

Giga Kahuna2 votes

you ever try keeping an axe going, let alone two in a team fight?

draven's damage is all from his q so if you miss one in a team fight you're losing a ton of damage, and if you lose both you're not going to do half as much as you could be doing

Serika Zero1 votes

You only need 1 axe spinning and q off cooldown... then you do about 2000 dmg in 1 second... targeted... auto attacks.

There is a reason in the past seasons assassin players like me, often avoided diving a Draven. Now Vayne also got similar to that :(

Verdade5 votes

Im pretty sure Draven doesn't have highest DPS in his class. That would be Jinx (Fishbones Ruaan's triple-dip on single target OR stacked minigun DPS) and Vayne. Draven has the highest frontloaded damage of all ADCs. Other ADCs with frontloaded damage are Graves Quinn Lucian

PermabannedGaren7 votes

{quoted}

Im pretty sure Draven doesn't have highest DPS in his class. That would be Jinx (Fishbones Ruaan's triple-dip on single target OR stacked minigun DPS) and Vayne. Draven has the highest frontloaded damage of all ADCs. Other ADCs with frontloaded damage are Graves Quinn Lucian

Nope, it's actually been mathed out. Draven has the highest DPS for an ADC.

Ever solo Baron as Vayne, Draven, or Jinx? I've done all three. Draven does it by far the fastest.

But he's so hard to play and so relatively easy to kill you don't notice that his DPS is out of this world insane.

SpecterVonBaren7 votes

Hardcore Draven mains are the one champs mains I'm legit terrified of fighting against. I remember fighting one about two years ago and it was the most horrible experience ever seeing them catch axes effortlessly in a huge team fight and killing my entire team.

EclipsesBlade2 votes

Good thing Tyler1 got banned then.

OHminus1 votes

Riot banned tyler1 not because of his toxicity but because he found a way to break their game

Hehexd

hunterspec1 votes

{quoted}

Good thing Tyler1 got banned then.

yeah so glad he isn't playing anymore..... oh wait... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y2FAqGO4J0&t=311s

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Let's start with a few assumptions: 500 AD 100% Crit chance (2.0 - no IE) 0% CDR 0 enemy armor and infinite health. 2.5 AS 5 second window. (12.5 AA's total)

That gives us a starting out-put of 12,500 (6250 without crit). This will be subtracted from all ending values to determine difference.

Ashe Passive: +10% to crit. (500x2.1=1050) Q: 4 seconds, 125% AD. (6250x1.25=7812.5x2.1=16406) 6-4 = 2x2.5 = 5x(500x2.1=1050) = 5250+16406 = 21656 9 156

Caitlyn P: 250x2x2=1000 Assuming she attacks from brush, passive will proc every 4th AA. 3 headshots. No steroids. 3 000

Corki P: 105% AD per AA. 12500x1.05= 13125 625

Draven Q: 85% AD per stack per AA. Can juggle up to 3 stacks (hold 2). Q only adds to damage, does not modify in any way - does not scale with crit). No other steroids. 500x(0.85x3=2.55) = 1275 per AA x 10 = 12750 500x(0.85x2=1.7) = 850 500x0.85 = 425 14 025

Ezreal Up to 110% AS in kit. No other steroids. 0

Graves P: Assuming all AA's are point-blank. 1.4x500=700 500x0.4 = 200x5 = 1000 1700 Per AA. 1.22 second reload per 2 AA's. E: loads 1 shell and AA's instantly. 14 second CD, - 3 per AA. 14/3= 5 AA for full reset 1 AA ever 0.4 seconds. Damn you graves, stop being difficult. AA+AA+P=2.02 AA(0.4)+AA(0.8)+E+ P(2.02) + AA(2.42)+AA(2.82)+ P(4.04) + AA(4.44)+AA(4.84) + P(6.05) If we move the first E back a step, we could conceivably get 2, making 8 AA. 8x1700 = 13600 - 12500 1 100

Jhin {Groan} AS to reach 2.5: 2.500-0.625=1.875 (1.875/2.500)=(x/100) ; x=75% P: F that. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/44i10b/calculator_for_jhins_passive/ AD=993.75 Jhin crit = 150% AD ; 993.75x1.5 = 1490.625 damage per AA. Reload = 2.5 seconds Acting AS: 0.625+(0.625x.51) = 0.94375 0.94375x4= 3.775 + 2.5 = 6.275 1490.625x4 = 5 962.5 - 12500 - 6 537.5 (+25% missing health on 4th shot.)

(Worth noting this does low-ball Jhin's damage a bit, but he's still far from being a DPS monster.)

Jinx Q: We'll just assume Fishbones at 2.5 AS. Don't ask me how. 500x1.1 = 550x2 = 1100x12 = 13200 700

Special consideration 1: Overlapping Runaan's splash 500x0.25 = 125x2 = 250x12 = 3000 3 700

Special Consideration 2: AoE (This is where Jinx really gets insane.) 13200x5champions = 66000 53 500

Special Consideration 3: Overlapping Runaan's splash AoE. I Cry

Question for anyone in the know: Jinx's Q splash is an On-hit effect. Does it work off Runaan's 25% AD or of Jinx's regular AD? Because if the latter. . . holy shit.

Kalista Don't know how Kalista's Rend fall-off works, so I'm assuming full value for all stacks. P+E: 150% AD + 60 per AA. 500x1.5 = 750x12 = 9000+(60x12=720) = 9720 Crit damage: 500x0.9 = 450x12 = 5400 9720+5400 = 15120 2 620

KogMaw % missing health damage (>_>)

Lucian P: 60% AD Q&W: 1 use. E: 14-2 per P ; 14/2=7 ; 2x3=6 ; 14-6=8 ; Only 1 use. E - AA-P - Q - AA-P - W - AA-P - AAx9 500x0.6=300x2=600x3=1800 No other steroids. AA damage makes par. 1 800

MissFortune P: 100% AD bonus damage against non-consecutive targets. Not affected by Cit. No other steroids. 6 250

Special Consideration: R 500x0.75 = 375+(375x0.2=75) = 450x16 = 7 200 5 champions: 36000 23 500 . . . Over 3 seconds

Quinn P: 50%AD + 100 ; 250+100 = 350

  • CD=2.928 seconds ; 5/2.928= 1.7 . . . ; 1 proc. Q: 1 P E: 1 P No steroids. AA damage meets par. 350x3 1 050

Sivir No steroids.

Special consideration: 5 champions on W 70%AD x 4 ; 500x0.7 = 350x4 = 1400 = 1400 x 2(crit) = 2800 W Resets AA timer, so I'll round up the 12.5 AA's to 13. 500x2=1000 3 800

Tristana Only AS Steroids. 0

Twitch 5 Second ult. Convenient. No other steroids. R: +40AD ; 540x2 = 1080x12 = 12960 460

Special consideration: Ult piercing. 5 champions.

  1. 100% = 12 960
  2. 80% = 10 368
  3. 60% = 7 776
  4. 40% = 5 184
  5. 40% = 5 184 |||||||||||| + _____ |||||||||||||| 41 472 28 972

Urgot ∞

Bow before you god!

Varus Questionably useless AS passive. No other steroids. % health damage

Vayne (And here comes the anti-Vayne Circle-jerk.) R: 8-12 second duration. Conveniently. +70AD Q: 2 second CD. 70% AD + crit = 140% AD. 2 uses. 500x1.4 = 700x2 = 1400

  • Resets AA time but also has a slight cast time. I'm assuming they balance out by 2.5 AS. 570x2 = 1140x12 = 13680 13680+1400=15080 2 580

Special Consideration: W W: % health true damage every 3'ed consecutive AA. 12/3=4 ; 4000hp = 480x4=1920 4 500 VS Mundo (>_>) Because the target is assumed to have infinite health (and to keep the QQ'ers happy): ∞

Kindred % health damage

Based on This, Draven has the highest non-AoE peak DPS by a pretty large margin. Followed by Ashe, then MF.

Also. Jinx. . .

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU!?

Verdade2 votes

You can't do math like that. I did it little more accurately, with base stats in mind:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQUWMeVssBoOZpe6FpA4MRyi01R1d0Yp9Y7dEd3a8qPAPYclNDO5t-QltUxSMD0_vnd4a10BGwAxhsk/pubhtml

This is at 200 bonus AD, 100% bonus AS and 50% crit

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

"Specific Bonus" is a very ambiguous term. I'm reluctant to give credence to magic numbers - especially when I don't know what they mean or are for. It also makes me question how the chart is supposed to be read.

Given the nature of Crit, I don't like using partial values. Even with Riot's Weighting system, it's still dependent on RNGesus. So either 0% or 100%. I used 100% because some champions rely on it for their out-put.

I gave a high total AD and max AS to reduce the number of variables between champions. I also used the 5 second window to acknowledge each champion's windows of power (Such as Ashe's Q).

But if you want to run it that way. . . Assumptions: lvl 18. 200 bonus AD. 100% Bonus AS. 100% Crit chance. 5 second window. Target has 0 resists.

Ashe AD: 200+94.9 = 294.9 AS: 0.658+156.6%= 1.688428 x 5 = 8.44214 AA's Passive: +10% to crit. (294.9x2.1=619.29) Q: 4 seconds, 125% AD. (294.9x1.25=368.625x2.1=774.1125) +40% AS = 0.2632 (1.951628 total x4 = 7.806512 AA's) 7x774.1125 = 5418.7875 8.44214-7.806512 = 0.635628. No additional AA's in the window. 5 418.7875

Caitlyn AD: 200+90.7 = 290.7 AS: 0.568 + 168% = 1.52224 x 5 = 7.6112 AA's. P: 145.35x2x2=581.4 Assuming she attacks from brush, passive will proc every 4th AA. 2 Head-shots assuming she starts with one. 581.4x2=1162.8 No steroids. 290.7x7= 2034.9x2= 4069.8 5 232.6

Draven AD: 105+200=305 AS: 0.679+145.9% = 1.669661 W: +40% AS. permanent up-time as long as he has mana and catches axes. 0.679x40% = 0.2716+1.669661 = 1.941261 x 5 = 9.706305 AA's. Q: 85% AD per stack per AA. Can juggle up to 3 stacks (hold 2). Q only adds to damage, does not modify in any way - does not scale with crit). No other steroids. 305x(0.85x3=2.55) = 777.75 per AA x 7 = 5444.25 305x(0.85x2=1.7) = 518.5 305x0.85 = 259.25 AA: 305x9=2745x2=5490 11 711.5

Jhin AD: 121+200=221 AS:

Kalista AD: 112+200=312 AS: 0.644+142.5% = 1.5617 1.5617x5 = 7.8085 AA's Don't know how Kalista's Rend fall-off works, so I'm assuming full value for all stacks. P+E: 150% AD + 60 per AA. 312x1.5 = 468x7 = 3276+(60x7=420) = 3696 Crit damage: 312x0.9 = 280.8x7 = 1965.6 3696+1965.6 = 3235.2 5 661.6

MissFortune AD: 63+200=263 AS: 0.656 + 151% = 1.64656 1.64656x5 = 8.2328 263x8=2104x2=4208 P: 100% AD bonus damage against non-consecutive targets. Not affected by Cit. 2104 No other steroids. 6 312

Vayne R: 8-12 second duration. Conveniently. +70AD AD: 84.1+200+70 = 354.1 AS: 0.658+168% = 1.76344 x 5 = 8.8172 AA's 354.1x8=2832.8x2= 5665.6 Q: 2 second CD. 70% AD + crit = 140% AD. 2 uses. 354.1x1.4 = 495.74x2 = 991.48 6 657.08

Without normalizing stats, end out-put clusters closer together. Draven Still dwarfs the others and Jhin still sits near the bottom.

Verdade1 votes

Specific bonus: Ashe

  1. passive
  2. passive+Q Cait
  3. Passive
  4. Ruaan's passive
  5. Ruaan's brush passive Draven
  6. Blood Rush
  7. Blood rush+spinning axe Kalista
  8. Rend
  9. Sentinel+Rend MF
  10. Strut
  11. Strut with always proccing passive Vayne
  12. R
Ackelope1 votes

Yeah, sure, Draven has frontloaded damage if you're fighting a shit one that doesn't catch his axes after the first few, but a Draven that continually catches them gets what is more or less consistent burst damage, his main source of dmg isn't limited by cooldowns, only by him catching axes, keeping the dmg buff and resetting his w steroid, whereas someone like Lucian relies on his abilities for the one-time passive proc, and the Q for burst.

JQKAndrei28 votes

Difference is, Vayne doesn't have 70% increased AD on **every **attack, Draven has 85% potentially on every attack if he catches the axes.

FaytalityHD31 votes

{quoted}

Difference is, Vayne doesn't have 70% increased AD on **every **attack, Draven has 85% potentially on every attack if he catches the axes.

Vayne has broken true damage vs high health and armor targets, increased chasing ability , point and click hard cc, 70free AD and an easier to play kit that doesnt revolve around catching axes resulting in highly telegraphed movement for the enemy team to exploit.

Hinagiku3328 votes

...so are we just going to pretend that Draven doesn't have:

  1. AoE hard CC on his E at double the range of Vayne's E which is only single-target
  2. A high-damage, global ult
  3. An Attack Speed steroid to go with his bonus AD steroid
  4. Bonus AD on every attack if he keeps catching his axes, with a higher % Bonus AD than Vayne so even if he only catches 1 axe his attack will deal more damage

Draven is hard to play right, but he is very well rewarded if you do play him well. While Draven and Vayne both have 550 range, Vayne has no way to attack you in any way outside of that range while Draven has 2 skills which can - one with 1050 range and an ult which is a global damaging skill.

Vayne's trade-off is that she has 0 means of attack outside of her auto-attack range, no real damage skills (E is mostly for utility and is AA range, and her Q, W, and R are auto-attack modifiers), and 0 Attack Speed steroids in her kit. In exchange she has all of her power budget in damage boosts (Bonus AD on a single AA after Q, 3-hit passive on W, Bonus AD on R) that require her to spec heavily into Attack Speed, unlike the average Marksman that has some Attack Speed steroid and only needs 1-2 Attack Speed items and can spec more heavily into AD for higher damage crits.

Vayne gives up high damage abilities like Ezreal's, Varus' and Caitlyn's Qs, Attack Speed steroids like Draven's and Miss Fortune's Ws, wave-clear, poke beyond her auto-attacks (which are only 550 range, unlike Caitlyn and Ashe), big utility/damage ults like Ashe, Draven, Caitlyn, Jinx, Ezreal, Miss Fortune, and Tristana Rs, and obscene Critical Strike damage because she needs more Attack Speed items to make up for her lack of AS steroid and has to give up extra AD items to get them. In exchange, she gets psychotically high single-target damage inside her AA radius with a big Bonus AD steroid on her ult (since she doesn't get a big, splashy, global damage skill or awesome team utility), mobility with a big Bonus AD AA modifier attached, and a passive W that has no active and places all of the power of an entire skill-slot into a 3-hit passive.

Yes, Vayne is probably tuned a bit high right now. But trying to pretend that she has an overloaded kit is just silly. She has an overloaded W and R, and she only has those because she does not get awesome on-demand Attack Speed steroids and big global damage/utility skills. Give her something like Ashe's ult arrow or Jinx's ult rocket and you can take some power out of her W for it. Otherwise auto-attacking things to death is literally all Vayne can do.

Marshbouy5 votes

Thank you.

HazyCloud76 votes

The point is not to insinuate that Draven needs buffs.

Vayne's kit right now IS overloaded. You can't have % max hp true damage and an auto attack reset that can crit for 425% AD with IE.

ModAcademy Kayn5 votes

That's not Overloaded. That's overtuned, hence nerfs instead of a rework

hunterspec1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZkFtVXHz,comment-id=00000000000100010000,timestamp=2016-11-23T06:39:44.559+0000)

That's not Overloaded. That's overtuned, hence nerfs instead of a rework

why would they rework her?

a special one6 votes

Its not overloaded.. just overtuned

Daddy Ants3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZkFtVXHz,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-22T22:15:45.439+0000)

...so are we just going to pretend that Draven doesn't have:

  1. AoE hard CC on his E at double the range of Vayne's E which is only single-target
  2. A high-damage, global ult
  3. An Attack Speed steroid to go with his bonus AD steroid
  4. Bonus AD on every attack if he keeps catching his axes, with a higher % Bonus AD than Vayne so even if he only catches 1 axe his attack will deal more damage

Draven is hard to play right, but he is very well rewarded if you do play him well. While Draven and Vayne both have 550 range, Vayne has no way to attack you in any way outside of that range while Draven has 2 skills which can - one with 1050 range and an ult which is a global damaging skill.

Vayne's trade-off is that she has 0 means of attack outside of her auto-attack range, no real damage skills (E is mostly for utility and is AA range, and her Q, W, and R are auto-attack modifiers), and 0 Attack Speed steroids in her kit. In exchange she has all of her power budget in damage boosts (Bonus AD on a single AA after Q, 3-hit passive on W, Bonus AD on R) that require her to spec heavily into Attack Speed, unlike the average Marksman that has some Attack Speed steroid and only needs 1-2 Attack Speed items and can spec more heavily into AD for higher damage crits.

Vayne gives up high damage abilities like Ezreal's, Varus' and Caitlyn's Qs, Attack Speed steroids like Draven's and Miss Fortune's Ws, wave-clear, poke beyond her auto-attacks (which are only 550 range, unlike Caitlyn and Ashe), big utility/damage ults like Ashe, Draven, Caitlyn, Jinx, Ezreal, Miss Fortune, and Tristana Rs, and obscene Critical Strike damage because she needs more Attack Speed items to make up for her lack of AS steroid and has to give up extra AD items to get them. In exchange, she gets psychotically high single-target damage inside her AA radius with a big Bonus AD steroid on her ult (since she doesn't get a big, splashy, global damage skill or awesome team utility), mobility with a big Bonus AD AA modifier attached, and a passive W that has no active and places all of the power of an entire skill-slot into a 3-hit passive.

Yes, Vayne is probably tuned a bit high right now. But trying to pretend that she has an overloaded kit is just silly. She has an overloaded W and R, and she only has those because she does not get awesome on-demand Attack Speed steroids and big global damage/utility skills. Give her something like Ashe's ult arrow or Jinx's ult rocket and you can take some power out of her W for it. Otherwise auto-attacking things to death is literally all Vayne can do.

Draven's AS/MS steroid also RESETS if he catches an Axe.

hunterspec1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZkFtVXHz,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2016-11-22T22:15:45.439+0000)

...so are we just going to pretend that Draven doesn't have:

  1. AoE hard CC on his E at double the range of Vayne's E which is only single-target
  2. A high-damage, global ult
  3. An Attack Speed steroid to go with his bonus AD steroid
  4. Bonus AD on every attack if he keeps catching his axes, with a higher % Bonus AD than Vayne so even if he only catches 1 axe his attack will deal more damage

Draven is hard to play right, but he is very well rewarded if you do play him well. While Draven and Vayne both have 550 range, Vayne has no way to attack you in any way outside of that range while Draven has 2 skills which can - one with 1050 range and an ult which is a global damaging skill.

Vayne's trade-off is that she has 0 means of attack outside of her auto-attack range, no real damage skills (E is mostly for utility and is AA range, and her Q, W, and R are auto-attack modifiers), and 0 Attack Speed steroids in her kit. In exchange she has all of her power budget in damage boosts (Bonus AD on a single AA after Q, 3-hit passive on W, Bonus AD on R) that require her to spec heavily into Attack Speed, unlike the average Marksman that has some Attack Speed steroid and only needs 1-2 Attack Speed items and can spec more heavily into AD for higher damage crits.

Vayne gives up high damage abilities like Ezreal's, Varus' and Caitlyn's Qs, Attack Speed steroids like Draven's and Miss Fortune's Ws, wave-clear, poke beyond her auto-attacks (which are only 550 range, unlike Caitlyn and Ashe), big utility/damage ults like Ashe, Draven, Caitlyn, Jinx, Ezreal, Miss Fortune, and Tristana Rs, and obscene Critical Strike damage because she needs more Attack Speed items to make up for her lack of AS steroid and has to give up extra AD items to get them. In exchange, she gets psychotically high single-target damage inside her AA radius with a big Bonus AD steroid on her ult (since she doesn't get a big, splashy, global damage skill or awesome team utility), mobility with a big Bonus AD AA modifier attached, and a passive W that has no active and places all of the power of an entire skill-slot into a 3-hit passive.

Yes, Vayne is probably tuned a bit high right now. But trying to pretend that she has an overloaded kit is just silly. She has an overloaded W and R, and she only has those because she does not get awesome on-demand Attack Speed steroids and big global damage/utility skills. Give her something like Ashe's ult arrow or Jinx's ult rocket and you can take some power out of her W for it.* Otherwise auto-attacking things to death is literally all Vayne can do.***

touching her w in anyway would ruin her. she is who she is because of her w.

GULAG 4 U13 votes

Except the hard cc has to be aimed, it's not point and click directly.

Vayne's damage is 88% physical. Not impossible to itemize against it, get a randiun's and tabis. Seriously.

The 2nd Horseman2 votes

Getting a single defensive item isn't going to stop her damage and in most cases you'll just get kited. Also what are other adcs supposed to do when she has a dash+ invisibility that counters auto based champions? Either you get bursted or she'll whittle you down in time, since you sure as hell ain't touchin point and click cc, which no adc has yet vayne with her supposed skill cap does?

DarkRitual1 votes

Don't be in lane by yourself and hope your support isn't daydreaming. Oh yeah, many other adc's also have dashes. It's mostly knowing when you're vulnerable to being all-inned, which can be tough when you have so much else to keep your attention on.

Point and Click CC on marksman? Tristana ult. Urgot ult. Technically Teemo blind and Kennen third mark proc passive, but we can ignore those in bot lane (usually).

The 2nd Horseman1 votes

I wouldn't call urgot an adc anymore since he's more just a part of the ranged top laner class. Also Tristana only has cc on her ultimate compared to a basic ability. I don't play adc really since i realized I enjoy being on the assassin end of that relationship. Idk why but I I've had an easier time killing Ezreals more then Vayne simply because I don't have to fear getting bursted to hell from just her autos.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The 2nd Horseman,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZkFtVXHz,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2016-11-23T02:46:40.159+0000)

Getting a single defensive item isn't going to stop her damage and in most cases you'll just get kited. Also what are other adcs supposed to do when she has a dash+ invisibility that counters auto based champions? Either you get bursted or she'll whittle you down in time, since you sure as hell ain't touchin point and click cc, which no adc has yet vayne with her supposed skill cap does?

Buy a randuins. That will buy you 2 more aa of survival time.

Seriously, do people not remember how much better the game was (with respect to marksmen) when the normal build for a marksman included a defensive item (usually randuins or banshee)?

The 2nd Horseman1 votes

It's been ages since I've been in a game where an adc gets a purely defensive item except for a GA once in a blue moon. It's usually an ad item that gives you defenses and then the adc drain tanking.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

you obviously didnt see me playing vayne double randuin so i can tumble in at will.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

People keep bitching that Vayne's damage is more physical than true WELL DUH her best build right now involves straight up killing you in 2 autos before she can even proc the W lmao

ShaolinToilet4 votes

Seems like you're the one bitching

HazyCloud72 votes

But Draven doesn't have %hp true damage either. The point the OP is making is a valid one, an on demand 425% AD critical strike (with IE) has no place in the kit of a marksmen.

That's the point, its not to ask for draven buffs.

JQKAndrei2 votes

It has place in the kit of a marksman that can only autoattack within 550 units

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

Difference is, Vayne doesn't have 70% increased AD on **every **attack, Draven has 85% potentially on every attack if he catches the axes.

"Every autoattack" He needs to activate Spinning Axe two times first and even then with high attack speed he'll have to juggle a third one. Plus catching them.

ArnoldSchwarzens10 votes

I don't think the problem of her Q is not THAT it can crit, it's just for how much.

I mean just look at this.

MasterYi Alpha does 25-165 (+ 100% ) damage, if it crits you will deal an extra 60% of your AD on top of that, yet only the bonus damage scales with crit damage, not the base damage.

Each of MissFortune Bullet Time waves deals 75% of her AD yet they can only crit for 20% extra damage.

People say Gangplank Parrrley and Barrel can crit, yet only the AD ratio part of them do, not the flat base damage.

And now, let's look at Vayne .

Her Q does 70% extra bonus damage, and both her basic attack part AND the 70% bonus damage part can fully crit and get full crit modifier's from IE, and you can lifesteal off the whole damage it deals.

If you feel like running an item 3508 and 10% scaling CDR in Glyphs , you also have it on a 1,2 second CD, else it's on 2 secs.

Yasuo has a similar ability with his own Q, yet he is melee, has a negative crit damage modifier and it's his only DPS ability in the late game.

Vayne just adds loads of mobility/utility, range, stealth, %HP true damage, and an AD steroid on her ult on top of that.

While I never really liked playing against Vayne I feel like she had her place before the changes to her Q. Every of the nasty things I listed above that is not her Q crits is Vayne's identity, not what she is right now. She's the anti-melee fuck you marksman that struggles a lot against ranged champions in return, that always was her counterplay method, that always was her niche. She's not someone who counters both melee champions with her mobility, DPS and %HP true damage but also ranged champions by being pretty much a pseudo-assassin with her Q crits.

Eh, ranted more than I wanted to. Sorry about that.

Steelflame9 votes

There was a distinct reason they allowed Vayne to have Q crits. Because the process of using Q late game was actually a flat out damage down, and it was buffed at a time she was weak, and didn't use IE until about her 4th item generally, if that.

And Draven Q crits already can break 1.8K damage anyway. He doesn't NEED any more follow up of more damage.

Finn Teh Human5 votes

IMO Draven is actually the strongest ADC. If you put Tyler1 against hiimgosu it's most likely gonna be Tyler1 on top. Not saying he's necessarily a better player, but a good Draven will out damage any ADC if he catches his axes.

Billy VoHagen8 votes

Strongest duelist is a lot different from strongest ADC.

Turbanator13372 votes

Plus the fact that Draven's a natural counter to Vayne. Very strong early game, and I can't think of any AD that can trade autos with Draven... well, ever, really. Any adc that doesn't outrange him (i.e. Vayne) is gonna have a lot of trouble.

The Deckowner4 votes

I always respect Draven players more than Vayne players because Draven actually has tons of counterplay and takes a lot of skill, which means mosy draven plauers are dedicated mains while vayne players are usually FOTM abuser and they just dump this champion when she is weak.

flibitydoo4 votes

I haven't encountered a vayne that got fed enough to oneshot people

one time it was like 60% of an adcs health with Q+shiv crit

But Twitch on the otherhand,

holy moly

everytime this guy just pops out of stealth with his ult and blows up all the squishies at the same time.

Garfields Hungry2 votes

{quoted}

I haven't encountered a vayne that got fed enough to oneshot people

one time it was like 60% of an adcs health with Q+shiv crit

But Twitch on the otherhand,

holy moly

everytime this guy just pops out of stealth with his ult and blows up all the squishies at the same time.

Twitch always been that way and his assassination play style slightly nerfed the ghostblade hurricane build was much better for that. His lane phase with the new W is just much better so twitch players can not be punished as much

RainbowIcee3 votes

we should have a troll mode where draven has his original passive.

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