Can we talk about how the "stealth assassins" have the worst stealth??

DeusVult··13 votes·1,253 views

Evelynn Rengar Shaco are the 3 big champions that IMO, have game play around sneaking around, disregarding or avoiding enemy vision to kill their opponent 1v1. In more than a 1v1, these champs tend to fall short, but 1v1 they are supposed to do well. Its how they feel, how their gameplay is setup and how their lore portrays them.

Yet, in game, these champs fall short of that feel, especially versus other stealth using champs. For 1, eve and rengar get camouflage, which means that pink wards still see them. For Rengar, if he uses his ult to try and kill a lone enemy champ, that champ immediately know that Rengar is coming to kill them, and its time to GTFO. For Eve, if she uses her stealth to setup her conditional W, then it betrays her stealth, and otherwise its just a slow. For Shaco, he gets a small window of invisibility. Which is a lot more than these other 2 champs, but using his W betrays his position as well, and unless fed, shaco has a hard time killing his target even 1v1 in the mid-late game.

Not to mention that in order to engage, all three of these champs need to get into melee range, with Eve and Rengar losing their camouflage before they even make it there. And Eve and Rengar have no way out. Its a 1 way trip.

Meanwhile, Akali Khazix Talon Vayne MonkeyKing all have far better stealth once a fight has started, and can use this to disengage, with some of them having far better single target DPS and all of them having better mobility.

And everyone's favorite trash rat, Twitch. He gets all the advantages of camouflage, but with a better detection radius and not being melee. So he can open up on you from beyond detection radius. Meaning that 1v1 you are definitely dead without having any warning (it lasts 14 seconds, he can go a whole lane cloaked) and 2v1 or 3v1 he still might kill all of you because of his huge AoE damage.

Riot, is there ever going to be anything done so that the champions who actually meant to be "stealth assassins" can actually be that again, and their enemies are going to either have to deal with that or group to stop it, or can the other champs who do their niche better be changed so that these champs can actually be played again.

14 Comments

Bańg9 votes

why play shaco jungle when u can play twitch?

safer and more damage.

its called bias.

the balance team consists of it.

EndersBread2 votes

[deleted]

DemainaNyx3 votes

{quoted}

safer and more damage? A champion with a freaking invisible flash isn't safe to farm or counter jungle with?

My thoughts exactly. Twitch is revealed by getting to close to him, whereas Shaco can be literally on top of you in his stealth and you'd never know.

Bańg8 votes

{quoted}

My thoughts exactly. Twitch is revealed by getting to close to him, whereas Shaco can be literally on top of you in his stealth and you'd never know.

HEs a melee champ that can Be kited

Twitch however will destroy ur hp bar from a range

kargish2 votes

Not to mention Shaco has zero early game relevance. If you choose to extend your stealth duration to not be a mere pitiful 1,5 seconds, you don't gain any damage at all.

The steam life4 votes

The problem is that 1v1 champs are just inherently more toxic to play against. Like don’t get me wrong I love them but getting annihilated from stealth with a .5 sec reaction window isn’t very fun to play against. Like if rengar isn’t behind is ulting and you are alone you are gonna get insta ko’d if you don’t have flash. I think that in order to make stalking champs a little better would be maybe the more time they spend on range the more damage they do out of stealth.

I could be entirely wrong but I was thinking it might be cool if rengar could ult and he starts of with a small range jump and no indicator and no crit then after 4 sec he could get jump range and a small global noise plays and after 3 more seconds he gets the crit and the full indicator goes and maybe he could get one more big bonus if he waits another 3. So If he waits the full time he will be doing some insane damage but other wise you can get in position prep when you hear the noise. But my point is stealth champs that are designed to have no counterplay once the 2-3 sec indicator is over its not very fun to play against.

Bob the Toastr2 votes

And Twitch doesn't also annihilate you from stealth? Also from 800 range away?

The steam life1 votes

When did i say twitch was balanced. like do u want every champ to be as broken as him sit down.

DeusVult3 votes

But the whole purpose of playing a "stalking" champion is so that when the enemy adc/mid is going to farm a side wave and gets greedy and pushes it far from their tower, or the enemy support is all alone in the jungle, then you go and kill them.

And they shouldnt get these huge indicators saying "back off now, your alone and your doom is coming" they should have the game sense to NOT do these things in a game where the other team has picked that champ. Much in the same way that you dont clump up when the enemy hasMalphite Orianna, or all in dive when the enemy has Taric or Janna, or chase the Singed in the bot lane when the enemy has baron pressure. Its just not something you do

But since people hate being killed 1v1 in a short amount of time without warning since it has "no counterplay" these champs continue to have counter-intuitive stealth.

The steam life1 votes

It's more like this it creates an incredibly binary sort of gameplay if these champs are allowed to do what they want. Either you die or youre forced to play like a bitch and stick with your team the whole game. And since this is easy counterplay albeit not fun rengar mains also want to assasinate their priority targets in a teamfight which is incredibly unbalanced as you control the map just through being in the game and you have incredible power in a teamfight. People like khazix as you mentioned have these teamfight weaknesses if you take away what you propose then rengar does not. So if he becomes able to do what mains want him to do he just isnt fair to play against.

All of the champs you mentioned dont control the flow of the game simply by existing sure you have to track them but its not oh im alone for thirty seconds now im dead there is counterplay if they try to 1v1 you. So basically champs like rengar arent allowed to have teamfight power because they have all this hidden power.

bbQsauçe1 votes

[deleted]

The steam life1 votes

read the response above my guy

KlydeFrog1 votes

the worst part abotu this is that rengars is a ult......and his detection radius is bs high.....

LordGeovanni1 votes

except assassins are suppose to 1v1 the are supposed to catch squishies and squishies typically dont travel alone 1v1s are what bruisers and tanks are supposed to do.

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