Since Illaoi's tentacles are visible to enemies even in brush

DeusVult·Sep 26, 2016·136 votes·4,843 views

Can GP barrels get the same treatment. Considering that they do equal if not far more damage with a lot less reaction time attached to them

46 Comments

ToastersaotSep 27, 201637 votes

I'm a GP main, so I'm biased, but the reason why I think is because of the extra mechanics that Illaoi tentacles have.

Illaoi tentacle are not one time use, and if you screw up with a Gangplank barrel you have to wait for a decent cooldown to be able to use it again.

Illaoi tentacles have healing attached, even if it is 5% Missing Health per slam. She also is generally tankier than Gangplank with a Juggernaut build.

Gangplank barrels also take only one auto to disarm, while Illaoi tentacles require two autos. This gives Illaoi more time to punish an opponent attacking a tentacle than Gangplank.

Another reason why is because Gangplank is thematically designed as never fighting fair, always forcing the enemy to fight after they have been chunked for half of their health by a barrel.

ZerenzaSep 27, 20166 votes

I believe you can see him place it too, i think they should try letting us see that they are in the bush on the PBE and if it doesn't work well then they should revert it.

As an illaoi main i completely understood why they were made visible in brush, i think the only thing i'd use against gangplank is how his barrel's combo together and deal much larger damage while also being very difficult to dodge.

statelesskillerSep 27, 20167 votes

gangplank plays a animation out and will ALWAYS face the direction the barrel is placed until the animation is finished. if you have eyes you should know where every barrel he places is in a bush

HawkefireSep 27, 20162 votes

I wonder if they could make it so that you can see the barrel for a short period of time after being placed (if you can see GP as he is placing it), if that might help with it a bit.

statelesskillerSep 27, 20162 votes

you mean make a champion thats primary damage source is already highly telegraphed and thus good GPs need to be very clever to use them properly even MORE telegraphed? the change you propose would only help unobservant players.

like just look at how gp places a barrel. you can not only see in what direction he is placing the barrel. but any common sense should tell you where it is. "oh hey he is facing that bush. so i know the barrel is in that bush."

but im a gp main so maybe im just biased

My Waifu VanillaSep 27, 20164 votes

Illaoi only heals for 5% missing health regardless of how many slams hit. You are right on everything else, I just want to make sure you are correct on all fronts.

The GovernerSep 27, 20161 votes

When a tentacle damages enemy champion(s) (slams), regardless of how many enemy champions it hits, Illaoi heals herself for 5% of her missing health.

My Waifu VanillaSep 27, 20162 votes

That is exactly what I said >.>

The GovernerSep 27, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZFM7hPPR,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2016-09-27T04:09:00.303+0000) Illaoi only heals for 5% missing health regardless of how many slams hit.

#Regardless of how many slams hit

????

SinlaireSep 27, 20162 votes

his point is that a tentacle heals for 5% missing if a tentacle hits ANY target regardless of the number, but does not stop illaoi from recieving 5% per tentacle regardless of the number of champions hit.

hit 5 champions? 5% hit 1 champion with 5 tentacles? not 25% because i think they gave it diminishing returns, but certainly more than 5%

thats his point

The GovernerSep 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

his point is that a tentacle heals for 5% missing if a tentacle hits ANY target regardless of the number, but does not stop illaoi from recieving 5% per tentacle regardless of the number of champions hit.

hit 5 champions? 5% hit 1 champion with 5 tentacles? not 25% because i think they gave it diminishing returns, but certainly more than 5%

thats his point

Don't think there are diminishing returns... When Darius hits all 5 champions with the blade of his Q, he heals himself for 36% of his missing health Riot clearly stated the cap for Darius' Q healing but there is no (soft) cap for Illaoi's slam healing. She can get as much healing as she wants because tentacles are hard to set up.

SinlaireSep 27, 20162 votes

they soft capped her same champion, multiple tentacle healing. that way she cant press E, and ult while standing next to two tentacles (which is easy top lane when fighting dumb opponants) and get 20% missing per strike.

every first tentacle that strikes an enemy champion generates 5% per champion, with every consecutive tentacle dealing the same damage but generating diminishing healing returns.

how else could you kill her with 6 tentacles in a 5 man ult? if 3 tentacles hit 3 champions on her first swing that would be 45% missing health healing. From there as long as she hit 2 champions each she could kill her way through the whole team before they got through the regen. she would almost never die in 5v1's as long as she wasnt cc'ed.

The GovernerSep 27, 20164 votes

The cap is on her Slam damage; her tentacles after the first deal 50% reduced damage if there are multiple tentacles slamming the same target at the same time in 0.5 second interval (which both the League of Legends Wiki and the in-game tooltip has mentioned), not her healing. If she did have cap on her healing from Slams, anyone would have noticed it and put it on League of Legends Wiki. Apparently that's not the case.

Also, 3 tentacles hitting 3 champions only grants her 15% missing health healing, not 45%.** The healing doesn't take into account how many enemy champions are affected by the Slams, but only the number of times Slams happen.** Why did you make the same mistake My Waifu Chocola did?

So unless you provide proof that your claim is the case, my point still stands.

(If you think 20% missing health healing per W followed up by Slams is overpowered, think about how much healing Darius gets by hitting 2 or more champions with his Q blade, and his Q has an absurdly low cooldown in late game.)

ZerenzaSep 27, 20161 votes

First, she heals for the number of slams that hit a target.

"Whenever a Prophet of an Elder God Tentacle deals damage to one or more champions, Illaoi restores 5% of her missing health."

This means even if she hits multiple targets it will still only heal for 5% but just so you know the combo i personally use(M7 Illaoi main) is E(one slam 5%)+Q(Another 5%)+W(Another 5%) this heals for 15% of missing health with a tiny combo. In her ult it's exactly the same combo but it will heal an extra 5% based on the number of tentacles so if you only got two people with it then you only get an extra 10% from your W(if you landed your E it'll be 15%) and at that point every W you use will heal you for 15%, if your smart and you positioned near a wall it's 20%.

So if you got the maximum number of tentacles, Seven to eight, and used your W, assuming each one hit you'd heal for 35%-40% of your missing health with every W. It should be noted though that missing health healing gets worse the more health you have and in many cases when i'v done this, i don't get the full healing because not all of them hit a target since your not really in control. You should really only expect the first slam from the initial ultimate cast to heal for 35-40% not the W casts afterwards.

JnFnRuSep 27, 20162 votes

Gp Barrels have way too high range with not enough reaction time cause maybe AOE Radius is too high?

I don't know but they just seem not to have enough counterplay sometimes.

Ravenous HowlsSep 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Gp Barrels have way too high range with not enough reaction time cause maybe AOE Radius is too high?

I don't know but they just seem not to have enough counterplay sometimes.

I would totally be ok with this. There is nothing more frustrating than getting chunked for almost 1/3 of your health b/c the absurd AOE space he has with his Barrels.

You can argue that it has counter-play by being able to destroy them but for a melee champion that is pretty hard to do as the zone is really big and he has a ranged on hit AA that can safely let him hit without much counter play.

LA LostySep 27, 20162 votes

Yeah i feel like it would be a very big nerf, as cheeky barrels can be the difference between a good and a great gp, and they are used both offensively and deffensively. Also you can actually see GP place the barrel, and in the direction he placed it. Lastly if you wiff it, its a quite long cool down early on, as you mentioned yourself. In lane you need at least 2-3 barrels to hit the enemy, and the enemy can still prevent it by hitting the barrels.

GrithokSep 27, 20161 votes

I'll throw in with you as an Illaoi main. It makes no fucking difference to Illaoi because no one respects the tentacles, They die, they call op, or they outplay the ever living fuck out of me because I'm a scrub and all of illaoi's cast times are slower than a bag of dicks trying to get erect without any "inspiration".

Point being, Illaoi saw no loss for having visible tentacles, but GP has a lot to lose for it.

BobaFlautistSep 27, 201610 votes

One reason I can think of is 1 hp is a lot less than 2hp.

They just work a bit differently.

Only Play DariusSep 27, 20167 votes

Or they could just make the tentacles visible but untargetable unless you're willing to walk into the bush or spend your ward on it.

xelakerSep 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZFM7hPPR,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-09-27T03:06:52.952+0000)

Or they could just make the tentacles visible but untargetable unless you're willing to walk into the bush or spend your ward on it.

this ^

The DeckownerSep 27, 20167 votes

Illaoi's tenticles are passive, GP's barrels are active.

JonxxSep 27, 20166 votes

Gangplank is already below 50% winratio and people still want him nerfed. http://i.imgur.com/Divi9yo.png?1

hhaavviikkSep 27, 2016

wow it's almost as if he's not fun to play against, crazy I know

Zero Skill TankSep 26, 20163 votes

Why can I upvote it only once wtf

Urf Mode Is LifeSep 27, 20162 votes

as someone who has roughly 40 games with illaoi... she was too broken before they made this change... people could get hyper smashed by 1 W just by getting too close to a set of brush with a tentacle hiding in it

Illaoi has the single best AD scaling out of any champion in league, thats why her kit works the way it does... shes one of the few champs who can effectively 1v5 if she plays right ( ive done it numerous times and im not even an illaoi main )

Her kit is less built around the wall tentacles, and more built around the proper use of her E

DeusVultSep 27, 20164 votes

Flat AD scaling maybe, but GP and others have access to crit, so excluding cases where Illaoi gets a 5 man ult that also includes Shaco and LB clones, the vast majority of the time GP will deal more damage with his barrels than Illaoi will with her tentacles, especially since its easier to walk out of the tentacle hit-box than the barrel hit-box

The GovernerSep 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Flat AD scaling maybe, but GP and others have access to crit, so excluding cases where Illaoi gets a 5 man ult that also includes Shaco and LB clones, the vast majority of the time GP will deal more damage with his barrels than Illaoi will with her tentacles, especially since its easier to walk out of the tentacle hit-box than the barrel hit-box

Just for your reference the clones don't count as "champions/spirits" for Illaoi's E or ultimate, but otherwise I agree.

DeusVultSep 27, 20161 votes

yes they do

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdquXBnOUqk

The GovernerSep 28, 20161 votes

If you count the number of tentacles you would realize the number of clones doesn't count.

The supposed number of tentacles = (1 <spirits from Illaoi's E> + 1 <Shacos in person>) (5) <5 Shacos> (5) <5 Illaois' ultimates> = 50 tentacles

If Illaoi's ult does count tentacles it will be MUCH more than what the video shows: (1 + 1 + 1) (5) (5) = 75 tentacles <plus another 1 for shaco's clone>

Apparently that's not the case. I play enough Illaoi games (level 7 Illaoi main) to know that is not the case.

Edit: Moreover, from Illaoi's Test of Spirit's additional information in League of Legends Wiki:

Shaco's Hallucinate, Leblanc's Mirror Image, and Mordekaiser's Children of the Grave won't spawn a tentacle from Leap of Faith.

You can go into custom game and test that. I 100% guarantee you are wrong.

AzharidanSep 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Urf Mode Is Life,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZFM7hPPR,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-09-27T00:45:00.647+0000)

as someone who has roughly 40 games with illaoi... she was too broken before they made this change... people could get hyper smashed by 1 W just by getting too close to a set of brush with a tentacle hiding in it

Illaoi has the single best AD scaling out of any champion in league, thats why her kit works the way it does... shes one of the few champs who can effectively 1v5 if she plays right ( ive done it numerous times and im not even an illaoi main )

Her kit is less built around the wall tentacles, and more built around the proper use of her E

Gankplank can use a barrel in a bush and take down the adc and the midlaner ( in this scenario ) or at least destroy the enemy team . Illaoi can do 1 vs 5 but she is not able to engage, so she need someone to engage, or need that the enemy team starts to engage, from what i know and think . The wall tentacles are really usefull in lane especially after 6, when you want to take the enemy jungler in a bush with another tentacle and then take their spirit and ult .

Toru ItaiSep 27, 20161 votes

QQ That used to be Sion's Niche...

DVVNSep 27, 20162 votes

I thought everyone's testicles were visible in bush.

J EevoSep 27, 20162 votes

Illaoi's tentacles are visible for a reason. You know how Sion casting Q in his bush doesn't show the Q ground marker unless you have vision of sion? The same thing happens if you make Illaoi's tentacles invisible in the brush. You could get into a situation where you get tagged by her E then die from unknown causes because the tentacles winding up and then slamming down on you wouldn't be visible, resulting in a big wtf moment, especially since they're created automatically and involuntarily. On the other hand when you're playing against GP it's more predictable, and even in fringe cases where the reaction time is close to 0.1 second it's still more fair than an invisible tentacle slamming you from a 600 range with no indication whatsoever.

MarshbouySep 26, 20161 votes

[zombie-brand-clap] There's probably a really good reason for it but i need to do history homework so Spaghetti code?

BellowsSep 27, 20161 votes

The problem is that if tentacles and their attacks werent visible, its impossible to avoind getting hit with such a high damage ability that isnt an ultimate. (looking at you nunu....)

Gp's barrels arent visible cause if you step inside the bush where he can get you, you see and have some amount of reaction time. If you arent going into the bush and he wants to hit you, he has to place a barrel next to you and you again, still have reaction time.

Harvey RabbitSep 27, 20161 votes

How about no, because barrels would naturally be concealed by brush, but 15 ft high giant tentacles would not be.

Soda PopkillskiSep 27, 20161 votes

I'd first like for riot to make it impossible to see whether Illaoi's tentacles are up or not so that you can't know where she is at all times. But i agree, Bush barrels are silly.

XareavSep 27, 20161 votes

The whole point of making her tentacles visible is giving the opportunity to dodge them. How does this not apply to GP? GP's barrels do massive damage, have greater range (through brush-hidden chaining) AND slow - setting up more doom. When added to the possibility of ulting and running in with yet another barrel to slow, in my opinion it's much more devastating due to cc than a single, slow, directional tentacle slam.

it be lìke thatSep 27, 20161 votes

gp has to cast his barrels and do not spawn passively, he also has to aim and time them accordingly, illaoi simply has to press w and hit the enemy laner. ALSO, her tentacles don't die in 1 auto. (unless she is far away) i think gps set up has it far harder, especially in ranged match ups.

DemiMaxSep 28, 20161 votes

I never actualy noticed this and I'm too lazy to check, but can you see Illaoi's tentacles through fog of war? Like rising when she gets near and stuff? If so, then that would be a disadvantage for her since the enemy team can use this info to their advantage with absolutely no cost.

The GovernerSep 28, 20161 votes

If they are in standard vision range, yes, regardless of where the tentacles are positioned. It doesn't matter if the tentacles are in the bushes, as long as they are in standard vision range of a champion.