Fiora has Quinns passive

DeusVult·Sep 13, 2015·213 votes·6,547 views

except that it is only against champs, refreshes almost instantly, deals true damage, heals her and is actually coded correctly so that it works properly

131 Comments

Weiner the PoohSep 13, 201579 votes

you forgot the part where it can only be attacked at certain directions.

LegacyDAPSep 13, 201522 votes

Yeah and the part where it gives her move speed, scales off bonus ad, and the part where it does max % health damage.

Weiner the PoohSep 13, 201562 votes

{quoted}

Yeah and the part where it gives her move speed, scales off bonus ad, and the part where it does max % health damage.

and is melee bu whatever

LegacyDAPSep 13, 20156 votes

With a 20 mana reduces cooldown by 60% mobility spell. But whatever.

TsohgderSep 13, 201534 votes

Wow, why is everyone so butthurt today? Fiora is obviously really strong and quinn is really clunky, but that doesn't make Fiora's passive "a better version of quinn's".

You know why? because they're completely different champions. Even if their passives were exactly the same (they're not), it would affect their kits differently.

ltmetalSep 14, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Wow, why is everyone so butthurt today? Fiora is obviously really strong and quinn is really clunky, but that doesn't make Fiora's passive "a better version of quinn's".

You bring up two good points here, but the first one is understated and the second is overstated.

The balance team has said that when a mechanic is introduced on a champion or item that is meta-changing strong, to the point of "which team gets this champion first in draft" or "which champion uses this item best," that is boring and unhealthy in game. The fact that solo lane Quinn attempts to do the same thing as solo lane Fiora while still bringing less to the table is the real issue here.

I have faith in the balance team, though. Fiora 's changes were overall positive, they just haven't gotten to the marksman rework yet. Quinn will receive her update in time, I just hope that they keep her unique and diverse so that this discussion doesn't even get brought up in the first place.

Rew711Sep 14, 20152 votes

I will say they need to tone Fiora down. She's nice and all for newbies but in the hands of a pro its not fun to watch. Well... it kind of is but you know that if she's against you, you're going to lose. Gap closures, slows, multiple heals. I honestly don't get why her passive heals her when her ultimate does a fantastic job as is. And the bonus damage? Its not like she's GP. She basically has a better version of GP's passive that heals her, and yet GP is the one getting nerfs to a E that isn't easy to use right now (glad its being looked at but I don't like how she's not being toned down as well).

LankPantsSep 13, 201518 votes

scales off bonus ad

I'm just going to leave this here

If Quinn attacks a Vulnerable enemy, she deals「 25 - 215 」(+ 50% bonus AD) bonus physical damage and reduces Harrier's cooldown.

TTUPhoenixSep 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'm just going to leave this here

PSA to fellow Quinn players: AS doesn't affect how often Harrier procs, while AD will noticeably increase its damage. Build AD first, then go for AS. I typically do item 3031 item 3072 item 3046 , in that order.

Daedalus871Sep 13, 20151 votes

But AS noticeably increases how smooth her AA's are.

AnidanSep 13, 20151 votes

It's a battle of priorities! More damage quicker, or less clunkiness! You decide!

I start with one damage item then go for an attack speed item, because seriously that AA is painfully clunky.

Daedalus871Sep 13, 20151 votes

I tried rushing an IE once.

I'm going to to stick with the Shiv.

MiraweaveSep 13, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I tried rushing an IE once.

I'm going to to stick with the Shiv.

Why in hell would you rush Shiv on Quinn?

Most of the time you should be rushing Ghostblade TBH.

Daedalus871Sep 13, 20152 votes

I like the AoE, Constant MS and AS.

kile147Sep 14, 20151 votes

I don't play a lot of Quinn and I know her AA is particuarly clunky, but I've found that with other marksmen that the animation smooths out a lot if you just get boots. put them in sometime around IE (preferably after) and that combined with natural AS growth usually makes it smooth enough to be tolerable on others.

AbyssphereSep 14, 20151 votes

wtf

kile147Sep 15, 20151 votes

What don't you understand? I'm saying that the AS from item 3006 is enough to smooth out aa animations and make canceling them easier.

Sire HippingtonSep 13, 201512 votes

the part where it gives her move speed

so does Quinn's:

Attacking a Vulnerable target will increase Quinn’s Attack and Movement Speed for a 3 seconds.

Trading AcesSep 13, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YuJ6Rbu9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-13T07:23:18.195+0000)

you forgot the part where it can only be attacked at certain directions.

That would matter if she wasn't equipped with a 4 second cd down without cdr and a ridiculous amount of movespeed boosting.

LatetotheRaceSep 13, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YuJ6Rbu9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-13T07:23:18.195+0000)

you forgot the part where it can only be attacked at certain directions.

That's not a real issue. She's a high mobility champion in a lane with slow tanks.

EcodeathSep 14, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Da Dwagonswayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YuJ6Rbu9,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-13T07:23:18.195+0000)

you forgot the part where it can only be attacked at certain directions.

fiora main defending freelo

Weiner the PoohSep 14, 20155 votes

{quoted}

fiora main defending freelo

i was just pointing out a difference is all.

Acidic PuddleSep 14, 20152 votes

and the part where fiora is melee instead of ranged...

IcyPepperSep 13, 201523 votes

Agreed.

Buff Quinn.

gubigubiSep 13, 20151 votes

Please no. Her win rates already 48% She needs a rework not a buff.

IcyPepperSep 13, 20152 votes

Her win rates already 48%

Er, that's close to healthy, just a little on the low side. Not every champion can be exactly 50%, and that expectation is unrealistic and essentially impossible.

She could use a rework, but reworks take time. A buff, however, could be what she needs in the mean time as long as it's not too strong.

Spellvamp GarenSep 14, 20152 votes

And her pick rate is like 2.21%, putting her in the bottom 10% of champs picked.

No one is playing her except those that are very skilled with her (and thus keeping her at an almost reasonable rate). I'd say there are some problems with the champ that need addressing.

IcyPepperSep 14, 20152 votes

Agreed.

AvidalarmSep 13, 201510 votes

{quoted}

Agreed.

Buff Quinn.

No don't buff her

fix her

SquarefighterSep 13, 201515 votes

Yes but comparing the abilities of two completely different champs is stupid. For instance, why does Twitch have Rengar's ult on his Q? Is it dumb that twitch gets a move speed bonus while stealthed no matter what while rengar only gets the bonus from champions? Should Twitch be nerfed because his Q doesnt give an exclamation mark to nearby enemies while Rengar's does? Of course not. It's stupid to compare the two because they do different things.

PerishSoftlySep 13, 20152 votes

Except in this case they are similar abilities on similar role champions. Both Quinn and Fiora are mobile burst duelists. Both have an ability to mitigate and punish retaliation. Both can catch up to enemies. And both have passives that are designed to chunk enemies for easier finishes. The main differences are melee vs ranged, fiora's true damage, Quinn's burst being entirely reliant on either double proccing her passive with vault or going all in to melee range with no way out, and the fact that of the two of them only one can remain relevant if she starts building defensive items.

SquarefighterSep 14, 20154 votes

You can make anything sound exactly alike if you describe it like that. Look, watch this:

Varus and Kalista do the exact same thing. Both of their Q's are physical damage poke, their W's add conditional %hp magic damage to their aa's, and their E's are both slows. Both of their ults are more for utility than damage, and the 2 second cc at level 6 can easily set up a powerful kill lane given the right support. So why does Kalista W do more damage per tick than Varus W?

It's silly. I could go on and on with the false comparisons.

Anyway, Fiora and Quinn definitely have some similarities, but Fiora is definitely much better in teamfights, whereas Quinn is more of an extreme counter to a lot of melee top laners who snowballs her advantage hard through her global presence with ult. Quinn can chase down basically anyone across the whole map. Fiora can't do that as well, but is also less ult reliant so she has less down time. Quinn is also is pretty bad against mages who can ignore both her blind and her ability to kite the hell out of melee range, whereas Fiora is more of a generalist and has her W to deal with mages.

yukumariSep 13, 201511 votes

I think skill-wise, quinn isn't in a bad place. But she's so buggy that it's really hard to utilize her fully. Even her passive is stingy as fuck because if you auto attack a target that's about to be marked, the mark isn't consumed until your next AA about 70% of the time (in my experience). That, combined with a few other bugs, makes her really frustrating to play as.

SulghunterSep 13, 20154 votes

Also, it's really annoying to vault off of Singed. He still gets to flip you. Garen can also land his Q if you vault.

BakedLotionSep 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I think skill-wise, quinn isn't in a bad place. But she's so buggy that it's really hard to utilize her fully. Even her passive is stingy as fuck because if you auto attack a target that's about to be marked, the mark isn't consumed until your next AA about 70% of the time (in my experience). That, combined with a few other bugs, makes her really frustrating to play as.

It actually never consumes the mark if it gets applied after your animation starts.

ConturbatioSep 14, 20155 votes

Exactly... The bugs are the reason Quinn is being held back from becoming viable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAFNdM23rFw

Ikrit122Sep 13, 20155 votes

I looked at the current skin sale and saw Phoenix Quinn. I thought "Hey, that's a cool-looking skin" before realizing that I had forgotten that Quinn is actually a champ in the game. I don't even forget Yorick as often as I forget Quinn.

PennsSep 13, 20153 votes

But Fiora cant turn into a fucking bird to fly at and oneshot you item 3070

TurquoiseYoshiSep 13, 20154 votes

When the hell was Valor able to one shot anyone ever? You have to unload your entire god damn kit to even get one kill, and then you're dead because you're in a shitty position.

ninjaIRL Sep 13, 20154 votes

Quinn can one shot really easily when she's noticeably ahead. She can only do it to squishies who have no peel though.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 13, 20153 votes

Yes, because she's an assassin ADC. She'll never actually do anything other than catch out one squishy unless she's fed as hell.

ninjaIRL Sep 13, 20152 votes

What I meant was that she can't do it to champions like Wukong who actually have armor items. She's a pretty crap Assassin to be honest. She can only 100-0 squishies whereas characters like Zed, Talon, Diana can actually be life threatening to bruisers when they dive in because they have a way to get out or have defenses. Valor doesn't have any heal, Armor/MR boost, shield, dashes, invisibility and teleports to use once he dives with E and you can't dive effectively without E.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 13, 20151 votes

She's not a good ADC and she's not a good assassin. So she's basically useless.

ninjaIRL Sep 14, 20151 votes

She's not useless. She's probably the strongest, if not, one of the strongest objective takers of the 'Marksmen' lineup. Valor gives a shit ton of movement speed to roam and a heap ton of attack speed to take down dragon by yourself then quickly take down any other towers, or steal enemy buffs etc.

She's really good at rotations.

Also, you counter Yasuo in a 1v1 really well with Valor form as long as you dodge his CC which takes some skill. You counter any AA reliant champions with your blind fairly well.

This is only if she has a pretty good start though. As in a kill or too without feeding in lane. I've been casually trying her out in normals for the past 3 months, not consistently, whenever I get forced to play ADC. She doesn't do too well as she does in top lane. Granted that I'm Silver V and ADC is my worst role. I think I'll just pick another ADC to bot with. She's better at top because having a teleport, like other top laners, boosts her objective killing by 500%. This does mean you need your support or jungler or both to be long lasting tanks who can delay teamfights for you while you kill every turret by yourself as Valor. Leona is a really good support to pair with her. So is Maokai, or Hecarim. They all heal up really well and bring a lot of prescence in team fights.

Her problem is that she's shit to lane with, in general, shit at early game because her passive is unreliable, she needs this for her damage you can't just ignore her passive, and her autoattack animations seem to take ages to shoot out the projectile for orbwalking or that cancelling the autoattack animations delete the flying projectiles as well I'm not sure which. She isn't a smooth kiter.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 14, 20151 votes

The thing is, why play Quinn when you can play Kalista/Tristana/Ashe? Those three have good objective control (Kalista: monsters/vision. Ashe: CC/vision. Trist: towers), and still far higher damage than Quinn. Quinn just doesn't have enough damage to be a decent ADC.

ninjaIRL Sep 15, 20151 votes

You're misunderstanding what I mean by objective taking... Okay, so when I say objective taking, I meant the Valor form's movement speed and hyper attack speed. She can rotate really well from winning a fight in mid to taking dragon and then to shoving bot lane really well because she's in hyper mode when she's in Valor form. She does that really well, better than a lot of other ADCs. This is when she has items and a small kill or two advantage over the enemy adc, which happens on her half the time.

Quinn gives vision as well, even if it's not as long as Ashe or Kalista. Quinn's defining feature is ironically Valor.

I'm not arguing that she is better than Kalista, Ashe or Tristana either. Because she will clearly underperform in the general scene if both have same skill, same items etc. I'm just saying she has uses when you said that she's useless. She just needs bug fixing and a small tweak on how her passive works.

TurquoiseYoshiSep 15, 20151 votes

She has a ton of tiny niche uses that are outweighed by everyone else's positives. She HAS to snowball the early game incredibly hard to even have a chance of Quinning late.

See what I did there?

Yosuke ApperuSep 14, 20151 votes

To be fair often times you're burning your ult with talon to get the kill, unless you're super ahead.

ninjaIRL Sep 14, 20151 votes

Hmm Idk. Best Talons I've seen is that they burst you with Talon's normal abilities, whatever combo he does where he teleport to you AA then slows you the does his empowered AA ability thing THEN they use their ultimate. At which point they either get the fuck out of there if they can't finish the Assassination or use the returning blades to kill the target, then try to run.

Yosuke ApperuSep 14, 20151 votes

Not if you're being on equal terms with an opposing bruiser. Especially a Darius shudders