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If garen ever gets another rework, i think he should be reworked into something similar to kayn

Critmaster Garen··8 votes·1,606 views

a champion who can chose between different passives to modify his kit and support entirely different playstiles.

the option of chosing between blue kayn or rhaast makes the difference between playing an assassin and playing a skirmisher dependent on what you, and your team need.

i think a similar concept could work for garen. not quite as extreme as switching classes, but having a juggernaut with pathes for different roles in different games.

this would allow to keep the champion mechanical simple at his core and easy to pick up by new players, but largely increase strategic complexity and add mastery to the champion by making the player chose the right build for the situation hes facing.

currently, garen already has a lot of different playstiles that his mains have created over time, and have item and masteries builds focus on different strategies how to play the champion in lane phase and around teamfights and objectives.

a couple of examples are:

  • classic bruiser garen with resolve/sorcery or precision into builds with item 3071 item 3053 into tons of health and defense
  • teamfight/secondary initiator garen with inspiration (glacial augment)/resolve with item 3800 to quickly follow up team engages of champions like Fiddlesticks Kennen and litter the area with slow fields to synergize with allied aoe abilities
  • damage oriented split push/duellist garen with sorcery(phase rush) and items like item 3142 item 3078 or item 3077 to fight and quickly dispose of squishier champions, and to wreck turrets
  • domination(predator, ingenius hunter)/sorcery(water walking) mid lane garen whos build is focused on roaming to bot and top during the lane phase

currently sadly a dead build with the lack of efficient itemization, crit garen used to be a thing aswell as a heavier carry oriented build

if you ever decide to replace the villain mechanic with something different, i think the player should be able to chose from an array of different passives that support these different playstiles.

for example, lets say garen doesnt have the crit scaling on his spin by default. but by hitting lvl 6 and chosing a specific passive, it would get added back to his e and his q, with the addition of gaining critical strike chance based on his cooldown reduction value (reversed old essence reaver passive maxed out at 40% cdr; up to 15%, 20%, 25% scaling with ult rank), effectively allowing him to build something like

item 3031 item 3071 item 3742 item 1001

similar passives could be added to support other playstiles and item builds.

  • one supporting the classic bruiser garen and making him more of an all rounder (like adding 1% max health physical damage to his spin and auto attacks)
  • one to focus on objectives and split pushing (increasing damage to objectives, maybe letting him ult dragon or baron for up to 1k damage)
  • one to support him in teamfights, by giving him just a little bit team utility

etc.

and at lvl 6 hed have the option to pick one of those passives

4 Comments

emarythomp21 votes

Interesting Idea. I just think it'll overcomplicate garen. If you couldn't already tell im a garen main. I like his playstyle despite being very simple and little substance mechanically. I don't think this will fit garens overall theme either. His kit fits his lore (His E is even canon). Also this sounds like a cheese thing since thats what crit garen was originally lmao. All these builds were created to make garen better at what he does. Though I think the villain mechanic needs to be tweaked a little.

TL;DR Garen is a juggernaut and his kit seems fine for what it is for now.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Interesting Idea. I just think it'll overcomplicate garen. If you couldn't already tell im a garen main. I like his playstyle despite being very simple and little substance mechanically. I don't think this will fit garens overall theme either. His kit fits his lore (His E is even canon). Also this sounds like a cheese thing since thats what crit garen was originally lmao. All these builds were created to make garen better at what he does. Though I think the villain mechanic needs to be tweaked a little.

TL;DR Garen is a juggernaut and his kit seems fine for what it is for now.

i dont intend to change garen from a juggernaut to something else. that crit garen example i brought up wouldnt change that.

his item build with the crit passive would probably be something along the lines of

item 3031 item 3071 item 3742 item 3053 item 3065 item 1001

but overall it would be more of a carry juggernaut build, than the teamfight utility build focused around glacial augment.

lets say another passive is something like

decisive strikes silence duration increased to 2 seconds. enemies that are crowd controlled by garen have their armor and magic resistance reduced by 10%/15%/20% for the duration

this would support his glacial augment/team utility build, without changing his identity as a juggernaut. his role is still that of a tanky damage dealer with the ability to amplify his teams damage (including his own, the silence would trigger it without other sources of cc), instead of the purely selfish power hed gain off a crit build.

and i dont think it would overcomplicate him. strategically it is not going to make him a lot more complicated than he already is. all these different builds already exist for him. at least mechanically he is going to be as easy to pick up as ever, since his basic abilities dont change.

here is another example what an objective focused passive (jungle or split push) could look like

decisive strikes movement speed bonus increased by 5%/10%/15%, jungle monsters stack courages passive twice as fast and the rift scuttler grants 5 amor/mr stacks, demacian justice can be cast on epic monsters and turrets for up to 800 damage

a new player might just pick the generic bruiser option like now to get to know the champion and the game, and over time learn to branch out and in which game other playstiles, rune and item builds work better.

this makes garen simple at his basis and easy to pick up by new players, but still have a mastery curve and give people more room to improve on him.

what i want to achive with this is that as a juggernaut, garen has more supported rune/item build pathes depending on the strategic role he wants to fill in a game.

does he want to jungle? split push and duel? be a team fighter focused on providing some small utility? does he want to be a carry for his team?

overally he still remains a fighter, and a juggernaut in specific, but has more options to support different item and rune builds to fill specific strategic niches.

give him like 3 to 5 different passives to chose from at lvl 6 that each slightly modify the values on his abilities and support different playstiles. this could work out pretty well for him to make him even more of a strategic champion as opposed to more mechanical champions.

emarythomp21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=znGyvQnO,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-09-04T21:33:48.455+0000)

i dont intend to change garen from a juggernaut to something else. that crit garen example i brought up wouldnt change that.

his item build with the crit passive would probably be something along the lines of

item 3031 item 3071 item 3742 item 3053 item 3065 item 1001

but overall it would be more of a carry juggernaut build, than the teamfight utility build focused around glacial augment.

lets say another passive is something like

this would support his glacial augment/team utility build, without changing his identity as a juggernaut. his role is still that of a tanky damage dealer with the ability to amplify his teams damage (including his own, the silence would trigger it without other sources of cc), instead of the purely selfish power hed gain off a crit build.

and i dont think it would overcomplicate him. strategically it is not going to make him a lot more complicated than he already is. all these different builds already exist for him. at least mechanically he is going to be as easy to pick up as ever, since his basic abilities dont change.

here is another example what an objective focused passive (jungle or split push) could look like

a new player might just pick the generic bruiser option like now to get to know the champion and the game, and over time learn to branch out and in which game other playstiles, rune and item builds work better.

this makes garen simple at his basis and easy to pick up by new players, but still have a mastery curve and give people more room to improve on him.

what i want to achive with this is that as a juggernaut, garen has more supported rune/item build pathes depending on the strategic role he wants to fill in a game.

does he want to jungle? split push and duel? be a team fighter focused on providing some small utility? does he want to be a carry for his team?

overally he still remains a fighter, and a juggernaut in specific, but has more options to support different item and rune builds to fill specific strategic niches.

give him like 3 to 5 different passives to chose from at lvl 6 that each slightly modify the values on his abilities and support different playstiles. this could work out pretty well for him to make him even more of a strategic champion as opposed to more mechanical champions.

Oh in that case then I agree. See if you said that at the start it would've made more sense lmao. I'm open to the idea then. But I still disagree with IE just because of how it works now and idk about it lmao

Critmaster Garen1 votes

interestingly enough, the odyssey augment system comes very close to this idea, in the way how it modifies basic abilities of the champions.

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