besides the entire discussion about how ridiculous those buffs are.
shes currently sitting at a high playrate with above 50% winrate. for a champion that is supposedly a high skillcap champion with a steep learning curve (lol), she seems really strong at the moment.
the meta favours her, the lane bullies that beat her have been nerfed. shes doing really well right now.
what kind of crack do you have to smoke to buff such a toxic champion when shes already strong?
LoliKnight14 voteswhat kind of crack do you have to smoke to buff such a toxic champion when shes already strong?
The same kind of crack you smoke to think giving Jinx W a critical strike is a good idea. Thank god that never saw the light of day.
RainbowIcee1 votestbh with how ridiculous some things have been lately that wouldn't have been much.
Ahristocats5 votesworld that's why
i love when low elo complains about high elo balance
Critmaster Garen29 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-08-09T09:30:23.656+0000)
world that's why
i love when low elo complains about high elo balance
vayne is doing fine at high divisions.
ill say that champion analytics around master and challenger tier are difficult, due to the small number of games in comparison. so there is little sample size, and im not playing at master/challenger to be able to compare from my own experience.
but around diamond she has a decently high playrate and is sitting at 50% winrate for a champion that should on average have a lower winrate due to a higher than average learning curve.
and she definitely already is a strong champion in this meta.
when it comes to worlds, then why the hell buff this champion in specific? there are still other champions doing worse right now.
Ahristocats8 voteshigh division IS NOT world
and no, vayne is not even close to be picked above d1
Critmaster Garen24 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T09:56:52.219+0000)
high division IS NOT world
and no, vayne is not even close to be picked above d1
but should she be picked with her current kit?
vayne was always the type of champion who was completely busted or irrelevant, because shes a 1 dimensional ball of stats.
what makes anyone think that this time will be different as long as nothing but number values change about her?
Thereisntaname6 votesThey buffed her to deal with tanks.
Critmaster Garen29 votesThey buffed her to deal with tanks.
they buffed her to destroy bruisers without counterplay. if this was the intention or not, its going to be the effect.
Spice POWAH5 votesThe intention was to make her centered more around her W and getting Attack speed. Except for the whole "heal on-kill" mechanic, screw that.
I suck at Jhin1 votesHeal on kill mechanic is retarded, typically vayne's already just never die in teamfights because they 3 shot anything and heal everything back up instantly.
SH Azykan3 votesthey are removing the crit on her Q bonus damage, so she is losing her bursting with crit potential, in exchange for slightly better tank damage (actually still lower than if she Q crit them) and a situational heal that rewards her for focusing frontlines with her ult up instead of assassinating the enemy adc/mage
I really dont see this as a buff rather than a shift of power.
Corrupt Bliss2 votesI don't know. IMO Vayne isn't very over-bearing, and has a good amount of counter-play. I've personally found delaying the Vayne advantage easy. I also think that this is more of a tune and less of a buff.
Akuryugamer1 votesAs a Riven main, I can burst down Vayne. Riven can engage a full team, while Vayne has to get lucky in late game. I honestly hope to see more counterplay. I'm sick of fighting what is practically an advanced bot until late game.
Ahristocats3 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:05:21.679+0000)
but should she be picked with her current kit?
yes she should only low elo cannot deal with her, above d1 she isn't a problem
she's the darius of adcs
and this is a world's patch
2DunksFromHell30 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:49:03.523+0000)
yes she should only low elo cannot deal with her, above d1 she isn't a problem
she's the darius of adcs
and this is a world's patch
nope, darius has counterplay, vayne dosent
Ahristocats3 votesI main Darius, and i know what he does
but i'm also a good player and know how to deal with vayne Vayne's power except when she crits is delayed af unlike other adcs, she counters health stacking champions EXCEPT AGAIN when she crits for 1k damage (which is being fixed btw)
low elo will try to duel her while high elo will try to kill her in 5v5 teamfight by abusing her low range
Critmaster Garen20 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:53:52.760+0000)
I main Darius, and i know what he does
but i'm also a good player and know how to deal with vayne Vayne's power except when she crits is delayed af unlike other adcs, she counters health stacking champions EXCEPT AGAIN when she crits for 1k damage (which is being fixed btw)
low elo will try to duel her while high elo will try to kill her in 5v5 teamfight by abusing her low range
the problem is, shes not exactly weaker in a 5v5.
she still has a lot of protection from her team in these cases, and in the hands of a competent player she makes up for her "low" range by being mobile and slippery and hard to pin down due to her stealth mechanic.
and i still question that she has lower range than other marksmen.
if 
wants to carry, she has to walk into the exact same auto attack range as vayne. shes not going to carry by throwing boomerangs. so how does vayne have lower range or is easier to deal with than sivir in a 5v5 for example?
Ahristocats7 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:57:02.402+0000)
the problem is, shes not exactly weaker in a 5v5.
she is, because all of her damage is single target and she can't use runan and not a single adc is like this
[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:57:02.402+0000)
she still has a lot of protection from her team in these cases,
doesn't matter, other adcs have the same protection but more range, and believe it or not but more range is what counts in high elo teamfights because if due to your range you get in range of talon you're dead or at least lose a big portion of your hp
[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:57:02.402+0000)
and in the hands of a competent player she makes up for her "low" range by being mobile and slippery and hard to pin down due to her stealth mechanic.
her pin down is single target on high cd, her stealth on the other hand is here to make her playable
when we hear you, it sounds like vayne is impossible to take down when it's literally the opposite, it's EXTREMELY hard to teamfight as vayne
[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:57:02.402+0000)
and i still question that she has lower range than other marksmen.
for real? let's pick the meta adc of the moment Draven has 550 range, but the dude can remove half of the hp of the enemy team with ult from a long range, and then finish the weaker targets with his Q twitch has 800 range kog has 730 range or something like that trist has 660 cait has 650 jinx has 700+ mf 1v5 from 1400 range with ult
other questions?
[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:57:02.402+0000)
if
different champions different purposes sivir's range is low to make her teamfighting balanced due to her broken ult in competition
fuffychan3 votesDont bother responding to him about Vayne. Hes been crying about Vayne for years. Hes made threads saying that ADC should pay mana to auto attack. Nuff said.
2DunksFromHell26 votesDont bother responding to him about Vayne. Hes been crying about Vayne for years. Hes made threads saying that ADC should pay mana to auto attack. Nuff said.
You are the one who is crying all day today :p visiting all vayne discussion threads about this ridiculous buff and calling us all bad, clsssic vayne player
Critmaster Garen17 votesYou are the one who is crying all day today :p visiting all vayne discussion threads about this ridiculous buff and calling us all bad, clsssic vayne player
the guy is a known troll. i didnt say any of the shit he claims. well, except that i hate vayne because her design is terrible and outdated.
answering him is only going to encourage him.
2DunksFromHell3 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=000000000000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T11:18:24.603+0000)
the guy is a known troll. i didnt say any of the shit he claims. well, except that i hate vayne because her design is terrible and outdated.
answering him is only going to encourage him.
well it's true it is outdated, like i said last man standing since season 1 &2
TEA Nietzsche 5 votesYou do realize that you are the ones whining about something, do you?
And no, pointing out that you are whining does not qualify as whining in itself, that's just flawed logic.
I suck at Jhin2 votesTo be honest you're right.
Vayne is one of those champions who can pretty much 1v1 anything when she shouldn't be able to because she's a fucking adc, and then every vayne player acts like they are good, when it's just retarded champion's kit.
Every time we catch and kill her, she's like "lol noobs can't even 1v1", yeah sure we will try to.
Sexy Jack Rabbit7 votesTwitch has 550 range and 800 when he ults which is only for about 5-ish AA's max.
Don't be hyperbolic to prove a point.
AwesomeGuyDj2 votesTwitch has 550 range and 800 when he ults which is only for about 5-ish AA's max.
Don't be hyperbolic to prove a point.
Except with just 5 good autos from ult, he can win a teamfight.
Sexy Jack Rabbit8 votesYou're not wrong no.
But Rubick stating he has 800 Range is still hyperbolic for the sake of wanting to sound correct and superior. Given he said Caitlyn only has 650, why state Twitch has 800? If you were going off of buffs as well then doesn't she technically have like 1200 when they step on a trap?
Ahristocats4 votesin a teamfight cait doesn't get to hit trapped targets every 0.5 sec unlike twitch
and yes, twitch can win a teamfight in 5 sec
Sexy Jack Rabbit8 votesBut you were still being hyperbolic for the sake of wanting to be superior. If you're gonna use buffs as an example, then be consistent, don't just cherry pick.
Never denied the second part. But in the end I don't really care either because it's not relevant to my point.
I suck at Jhin1 votesCaitlyn's 1200 shots don't go through whole enemy team critting and applying passive which later will be expunged to finish all of you with one click.
Sexy Jack Rabbit3 votesONCE AGAIN You're not wrong. But ONCE AGAIN not relevant to my point. I know what Twitches Ult does.
Critmaster Garen8 votes[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:53:52.760+0000)
I main Darius, and i know what he does
but i'm also a good player and know how to deal with vayne Vayne's power except when she crits is delayed af unlike other adcs, she counters health stacking champions EXCEPT AGAIN when she crits for 1k damage (which is being fixed btw)
low elo will try to duel her while high elo will try to kill her in 5v5 teamfight by abusing her low range
i think vayne should get a larger rework that puts silver bolts on her champion passive and then make it conditional similar to how fioras passive is conditional.
they could make it like 
passive for example to immediately reactivate when the enemy loses vision on her, with an otherwise longer cooldown like 8 seconds.
turn her e into a longer ranged skillshot, that could act as a waveclear tool when not hitting champions and give her a new w that triggers her passive condition but can be dodged to deny the reset.
her kit is downright infuriating and unfair to deal with if youre not playing someone with direct target cc or hypermobility/burst and her design is honestly terrible.
2DunksFromHell1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000001,timestamp=2017-08-09T11:00:22.615+0000)
i think vayne should get a larger rework that puts silver bolts on her champion passive and then make it conditional similar to how fioras passive is conditional.
they could make it like
turn her e into a longer ranged skillshot, and give her a new w that triggers her passive condition but can be dodged.
I think Vayne is the last man standing when you look at old school marksmen (season 1&2) almost every adc got at least some kind of rework or bigger change,except vayne, they should rework her W same like they did with tristana E
Critmaster Garen9 votesI think Vayne is the last man standing when you look at old school marksmen (season 1&2) almost every adc got at least some kind of rework or bigger change,except vayne, they should rework her W same like they did with tristana E
part of the problem is that the 3 hit mechanic for her w is a false choice mechanic.
something that disguises itself as counterplay but gives her an advantage when you try to counterplay it.
ive seen phreak once mention that the counterplay to her w is supposed to be to force her to switch her target before she gets the proc, or to kite in and out of her range.
but especially the last part isnt possible. when you try to kite out of her auto attack range, her passive movement speed boost activates and she gets an extra free shot at you.
most champions are simply not mobile enough to even be able to outmaneuver a vayne, much less match her own mobility.
this means the 3 hit mechanic as a counterplay mechanism is worth nothing.
its also the exact same part of her kit thats being buffed now, increasing the frequency of the w procs. there was already little point trying to deny vayne the third hit, when he can reliably stick. but now there will be no chace to even make a sidestep into a bush before she hits you with the proc.
all she has to do is auto you and reset it with a q to chunk you out.
DuskDaUmbreon2 votesHave you tried any poke at all against Vayne?
She's squishy as fuck. She cannot handle poke. At all. As she typically goes Fervor, she can't even sustain back the damage she takes. And she's not able to use Soraka or Sona (the only two champions noteworthy for their healing), as both of them are too squishy to work with Vayne.
Skins Project5 votesI see more warlords. Vayne has enough damage by herself imo
FearlessCreator2 votesSo many downvotes... you took a fat L
Maximus Manius2 votesThis man is being so ignorant towards the obvious facts that are before him. He rejects any concept of being open minded and seeing the actual issues with Vayne. Critmaster makes obvious point that are correct and this man is being a child about it. Aka... When he says I'm right and this buff is going through. Such an intelligent argument right? No facts to support his argument.
aspects11 votesthis coming from the person who was so cowardly they changed their name 3 times after meddler exposed them nice one i am rubick sama or should i say, Dr samaxrubick? or perhaps WTF Darius adc? lel you deserve every single downvote you get
Ahristocats2 votesif i wanted to cowardly change my name i wouldn't put rubick in it, but i bear the name of the grandest magus ever and idgaf about meddler, i was right and he knew it which is why he changed coin's quest like i told him LUL
youcan downvote, i made sure to let everyone that i don't care and will never care about it
aspects11 votesso are you suggesting that your name change was mere coincidence? i think not
Travis Scutt3 votesshe sucks lol
Critmaster Garen18 votes[{quoted}](name=Travis Scutt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1sWmF8Ek,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-08-09T13:49:15.349+0000)
she sucks lol
and when she doesnt suck, shes broken. she needs a kit rework, not buffs.
its as bad of an idea as buffing the shit out of tryndamere just because he isnt LCS worthy.
theyre not changing anything about what makes her kit a toxic linear ball of stats. thats the problem. theyre just ramping up her numbers and give her a ridiculous heal.
anywhere below master tier she doesnt even suck, and is a pretty strong champion right now.
Chromatic Eagle1 votesThose buffs seem more like a small redesign though. Not enough clearly, but it's a start.
AR URF1 votescomplaining about 
when 
is building 
, two shotting squishies and stealing all that life back that he lost. I guess Vayne is not part of the establishment of ADC.
Critmaster Garen12 votescomplaining about
the thing with draven is, that there is a clear way to counterplay him.
if you can force him to drop his axes, youre creating a window in which he loses a lot of his damage potential and where you can fight him, until the thing comes off cooldown again.
thats not to say he doesnt have other issues. his passive is a pretty terrible and snowbally mechanic for example. he either keeps getting wrecked and repeatedly dies because hes gold starved and keeps losing his stacks, or he snowballs the fuck out of a game.
his passive is essentially a version of 
or the old sword of the occult. its a snowball mechanic, and i dont think those are very healthy.
but as a marksman concept i like his axe mechanic much more than vaynes kit.
if shes stronger than you, then thats it. there is no way to play around it. shes going to beat you every time.
10 fps1 votesVayne has the worst laning phase of any ADC. Is that not counterplay?
Critmaster Garen9 votesVayne has the worst laning phase of any ADC. Is that not counterplay?
no. thats just part of her power curve.
nasus laning for a bruiser is shit. but the weakness he retains throughout the entire game and why even a 1000 stack nasus is not an automatic win for your team is, that hes still easily kitable.
10 fps1 votesOkay and how is her power curve not a weakness? You can take any champion and bully Vayne out of lane then while she's behind you end the game. It's why she's the most hated ADC among supports!
EDIT: I love how my post is downvoted but no one can even reply!
3TWarrior1 votesI thought she was most hated because her kit allows her to be overly aggressive and she is mana-gated early game
so long as she is allowed to farm, her scaling is not much different from other marksmen