5 years and we still have to go to third party sites to get all the information about a champion

Critmaster Garen·Jun 7, 2015·371 votes·7,886 views

i just wanted to check up on ryzes passive on riots champion page and i quote

Arcane Mastery

Casting spells grants a stack of Arcane Mastery.

At 5 stacks, Ryze becomes supercharged, gaining a Mana shield that blocks damage and causing his spellcasts to reduce the cooldown of his other spells significantly.

Ryze's abilities scale with his maximum Mana.

well thanks for being no fucking help. i knew this part myself. how about some actual numbers?

this is a recurring thing in this game. the ability descriptions in client are only half baked, in spectator mode passives have no scalings in the tooltip and the same vague descriptions given. and not even on the champion pages here on your homepage you get all the information you need. half of it is missing.

95 Comments

TengrichanJun 7, 2015110 votes

riot competent

choose one

Dr EasterJun 8, 20157 votes

http://i.imgur.com/DPnGUJt.gif

AkesgerothJun 8, 20154 votes

They are competent at quite a few things. Those things just don't happen to be net coding, keeping us updated on the lore or keeping a knowledge base updated and relevant.

GalewingsJun 7, 201565 votes

5 years later the tutorial is still god awful and completely unhelpful, death recap is useless, misleading and laughably bad, champ select trolls still run amok and completely unhindered because according to Riot it's better to do nothing than something that maybe could be abused.

Riot is seriously lucky they have a fun game and a playerbase that has spent so much money that they can't back out because this game has so many laughable flaws that just about any other game wouldn't get away with it

RoyaiChaosJun 7, 201517 votes

The tutorial isn't horrible. It's not optimal for sure, but I rarely see complaints that the game is too hard to learn. It won't teach you how to be good at the game, but it'll teach you how to play the game.

And I doubt other games have solved the problem of champ select trolls.

I don't have anything to say in defense of the death recap as everything you said is true, but it's understandably low priority because I doubt anyone uses it so the amount of players it's hurting is quite small. It's still bad of course, imo they should just remove it until they have time to fix it.

SquarefighterJun 7, 201536 votes

The tutorial isn't horrible? Thornmail first item Ashe thinks differently.

Champion SkinJun 7, 201523 votes

There really need to be a better item tutorial...

Like there is no explanation of what items you should buy Items are such a big part of the game and you are really screwed if you mess it up (like building AP on Riven or don't buy any items) So there really should be a tutorial which explains items and the shop better

Ancestor007Jun 7, 201516 votes

When i started, I used to save all my money to buy the full items instead of the parts. IE and Tri Force were taking so long

Big Daddy HuskJun 9, 20153 votes

You're not alone, I thought the same thing. I also thought Tri Force was the best item just because it costed the most.

Mr BorgJun 7, 201511 votes

I don't know man, my triforce/hurricane Annie build was pretty op.

MarhsallLee67Jun 8, 20153 votes

My first PvP game was an ARAM. I rushed Thornmail because that's all the tutorial taught me to do.

We lost the game before I even finished the item. item 3070

DrCyanideJun 7, 201516 votes

{quoted}

The tutorial isn't horrible. It's not optimal for sure, but I rarely see complaints that the game is too hard to learn. It won't teach you how to be good at the game, but it'll teach you how to play the game.

The tutorial teaches you how to move, use abilities, and kill minions/buildings/champions.

The tutorial does not cover how to learn what abilities scale off of, how to pick items (just rush Thornmail), or how to use active items.

It's pretty easy to find stories of players who came up with very odd builds just because they didn't have even a rudimentary grasp of these concepts from the tutorial. That implies the system could use work in this department.

DracoliatJun 7, 20152 votes

These concepts change as the champion changes. Guess what? There's a reason there is coop vs ai. also they will be paired with other new players in normals, and if you get stuck with them you were there at one point so don't be rude, welcome them, and help teach them.

MarhsallLee67Jun 8, 201511 votes

These concepts change as the champion changes.

The tutorial doesn't even explain that, though. It doesn't teach you the difference between AP and AD. It doesn't teach you how to itemize on each.

But worst of all...

The game doesn't even teach you how to fucking ward.

TheRainInSpainJun 8, 20152 votes

"A competitive player will instinctively know what a ward is and how to use it. So we don't need to teach people that." I expect this to be the mandate for Rito.

AbodyHUN666Jun 8, 20153 votes

A rioter lately said, that the one who designed the tutorial thought that thornmail will be a good item because it prevents you from being executed by minions. While it seemed like a good idea, they want to change it now.

ThuniceJun 8, 20153 votes

But it is literally impossible to die in the tutorial.

Try it.

manbearswineJun 7, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I don't have anything to say in defense of the death recap as everything you said is true, but it's understandably low priority because I doubt anyone uses it so the amount of players it's hurting is quite small. It's still bad of course, imo they should just remove it until they have time to fix it.

People don't use it BECAUSE it is so bad,I had plenty of times I was interested in it,but you kinda start losing interest when it keeps showing you useless info,it should be a priority,and fixed asap.

RoyaiChaosJun 8, 20152 votes

But if people are getting fine along without it, should it really be a priority opposed to things that more players are asking for or fixing something is actually hurting players?

manbearswineJun 8, 20152 votes

{quoted}

But if people are getting fine along without it, should it really be a priority opposed to things that more players are asking for or fixing something is actually hurting players?

Yes,it should,because people aren't getting along fine without it,it is annoying as hell,sure ekko and ryze might be more annoying,but they are also MUCH harder to fix,this is a very simple to do,very needed fix which should've been done decades ago.

RoyaiChaosJun 9, 20151 votes

If this is a simple fix, you're greatly mistaken. I also doubt that people are struggling in the game because of it.

manbearswineJun 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

If this is a simple fix, you're greatly mistaken.

It IS a simple fix,hell,some third party programs offer that feature right now.

I also doubt that people are struggling in the game because of it.

What exactly do you define as struggling? it's very annoying,that is definitely true.

HouseCat01Jun 11, 20151 votes

what is your definition of decade? xD

Celeste BenalJun 8, 20152 votes

My gf says this game is extremely hard to learn. I actually got her to play a few intro bot games. She tried 4 different champs (Ryze, Ashe, Garen, and Graves). Didn't like the first 3 because they simply didn't do much. Was kind of luke-warm on Graves.

The lack of information on how to actually play has been a major detriment to more people picking up lol. There is no guidance on why one should do certain things or buy certain items. At least the shop has suggested items.

Also, Intermediate bots are too easy. Make advanced bots that are not stat-nerfed plz. Also, they need to jungle. It doesn't need to be fancy decicion-making. Just simple stuff. Enemy laner within a certain map area (over-extended) and less than self hp? Go gank. They already use summoners and trinkets.

DysnomiaMar 25, 20181 votes

When a girl says that this game is "extremely hard to learn", you might understand why there are 5 female players total or so in EVE Online.

ChaosThiefJun 7, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Protean Wings,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yldyj2jB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-06-07T08:51:18.537+0000)

death recap is useless

I think you mean hilarious.

Critmaster GarenJun 7, 20158 votes

{quoted}

I think you mean hilarious.

that moment, when you get killed by your opponents summoner heal. and he doesnt have heal.

[{quoted}](name=SoIo Lane or AFK,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yldyj2jB,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2015-06-07T11:50:55.685+0000)

I mean, Is it hard to do things like fetch information and display it? No, its rather simple, but it IS time consuming, and Riot does in fact have to pay the people they hire to code such things into the client.

So looking at the Reddit, and the forums, you'd see that people at this moment are just more concerned with content releases, balance changes, and esports, as well as bugs. So this is likely where Riot is dumping the bulk of its funding, as this stuff is the current "demand" from the bulk of the community, and it shows, as a few months ago, people complained about a lack of 750 RP skins, and now we have sets of them released every patch now.

When more people want the client to display more in depth information, then i'm sure Riot will get around to it, as for now, no one is really voicing their want for it, so Riot probably doesn't feel like its time to invest the amount of money they'd need to, to get this kind of information coded in.

dude, its beeen 5 years. riots homepage and champion pages have been reworked a bunch of times in the meantime. including the pages in client. you honestly want to tell me that nobody found the time to add the missing pieces of information to the champion pages in 5 years?

it should be really not that much work. the information is already there in the game files. all they need to do is grab it. i mean it works with many of the other stats.

base abilities and ultimates usually have accurate descriptions here on their homepage with ad and ap scalings, range, and mana costs. all thats missing is to add the cooldowns to that information and do the same for champion passives.

the problem with going to third party sites is, that they are also not always accurate or up to date on these things. you go to lolking for example, and youll see it still lists ryzes old kit.

Mr Wright IIJun 7, 20153 votes

So sir, its when you die and they did damage with revive that doesnt even EXIST in the game anymore

63536895_DELJun 7, 201511 votes

I just just go to the League wikia for everything. The info there has a ton of details and is very specific. But yeah it would be nice to get it from the League site and the client itself, but atm they are so bad they don't even give you the cooldowns.

BastionKrossJun 8, 20157 votes

Want news and information like PBE balance changes and hints at upcoming skins? - Surrender at 20 Want actual, hard numbers on champions and their abilities? - LOLWiki Want detailed information on you or other summoners? - LOLKing, etc Want the best chance to be heard by Rioters? - Reddit

Want all that in one place that's designed and maintained by Riot themselves? Slow down there partner, it's only been five years.

ABlueQuakerJun 7, 20155 votes

It gives you the numbers if you look on the Website, but even then it doesn't even show the Base Cooldowns of Abilities.

StridentJun 7, 20154 votes

I completely agree. It's infinitely frustrating to me that I have to peer at 3rd party sites to read about my abilities.

manbearswineJun 7, 20154 votes

Actually it's not even all the information.

Does anybody know the exact hitbox/speed of morganas q for example?(aside from "truck")

How about ahri's charm?

I don't mind going to third party sites,as long as that information can be found...somewhere...which it can't be.

SilverclawJun 7, 20151 votes

lolwiki.

SoMNiaJun 7, 20152 votes

Most of that information is missing from the wiki. Morgana Q speed is 1200. Ahri E speed unknown. Hitboxes for both not listed. Nidalee Javelin speed or width: ???

I don't know WHY this stuff isn't on the wiki, but it's not. I'm pretty sure some of it has been mentioned in patch notes when it was changed (e.g. Nidalee Q width reduced to 30 from 60 when she was updated). But I can't look it up anywhere else.

manbearswineJun 7, 20158 votes

{quoted}

Most of that information is missing from the wiki. Morgana Q speed is 1200. Ahri E speed unknown. Hitboxes for both not listed. Nidalee Javelin speed or width: ???

I don't know WHY this stuff isn't on the wiki, but it's not. I'm pretty sure some of it has been mentioned in patch notes when it was changed (e.g. Nidalee Q width reduced to 30 from 60 when she was updated). But I can't look it up anywhere else.

In contrast you have the dota 2 wikia which contains EVERYTHING. cast time,hitbox,aoe,range: everything,meanwhile I still have no idea what the hitbox on ahri's charm is.

I don't particularly care if it's in the client or not,but this NEEDS to exists somewhere.

TDubHJun 8, 20153 votes

To people complaining about the tutorial; First of all, you guys are wrong. League doesn't have a tutorial... Click play go into Tutorials... And realize the madness; League doesn't have a tutorial... it has tutorials.

While it IS only two. and yes, it ONLY teaches you so much (lol go into jungle kill shit, don't know why.) and it teaches you a system the game barely uses (Side quests, only 2 really exist on SR; Rengar V Kha'zix, and the Freljord queens) But clicking on shop shows a viable build path... (no pots though sadly )

Oh oh

and the unsung third tutorial; Intro bots This will give you essentially a reasonable build path for all the basic champions the game gives you to start out with...

While its not perfect, and no it doesn't teach you to ward, (Would you play a game that threw THAT much at you so early... i wouldn't) it doesn't teach you how to use health pots (when do you use them anyway) it teaches you to blow summoners for no fking reason (you're low health, use heal!)

it does teach you; To last hit to use other resources (the jungle) the basic build path (it does show that you can combine equipment to build something) how to win how to survive in a lane ( a little bit )

and its not perfect... 4 different test accounts playing at varied skill levels... and i observed that many people A; Did play the second tutorial B; Did not pay attention in intro bots

(Yes, i'm a dick, i smurfed... sorry to the lives i ruined.)

Although notably, they DID get something of the basics.

Celeste BenalJun 8, 20151 votes

It most certainly does NOT teach you to last hit. I played four intro bot games just yesterday with my gf (trying to get her to play), and at no point does it ever tell you anything about killing minions.

It did tell me to use pots to heal (if I bought them because first game ran Vi jg). It did tell me to go back to heal. It does have a reasonable suggested item build. I do not recall it ever telling me to use my summoner spells. But she was constantly blowing her heal so maybe that was just me not being bad for once.

It did not tell her to wait for minions to draw aggro. She would just wade in and take all sorts of damage while slowly plinking away until she had to run away because low health.

TDubHJun 8, 20152 votes

... you mean on the second tutorial it NEVER paused the game to tell you to back off from tower to wait for minions? you mean on the second tutorial it NEVER had that section where you had to hit 5 minions before progressing? did you try the second tutorial?

VinwolfJun 7, 20151 votes

Those numbers are data-mined information. Riot is not encouraging people to datamine, aka you are not supposed to know those numbers.

Vistha KaiJun 7, 201538 votes

Bull. Shit.

They say knowing all the information would make people sit reading tooltips, that's why they lack it.

But when I wanted to play Ekko first thing I had to do was to take a timer and look for how long his E works.

WolfBVJun 8, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yldyj2jB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-06-07T08:30:16.980+0000)

Bull. Shit.

They say knowing all the information would make people sit reading tooltips, that's why they lack it.

But when I wanted to play Ekko first thing I had to do was to take a timer and look for how long his E works.

Oh, I guess I should try and help out here. If you want to know what a champ's abilities and passive do, go to Mobafire.com and type in the champions name, above the build guides there should be 5 icons. Each icon represents an ability. Scroll over the ability and it should give you a full description including ratios, cooldown, base damage, mana cost, exactly what the ability does, and what it gains per level put into it.

Vistha KaiJun 8, 20153 votes

Wikia loads 3 times faster and has more information which also has better formatting.

That's not the point.

Celeste BenalJun 8, 20153 votes

And both have tons of flash ads that suck my bandwidth so badly that my game client actually lags out.

WTB in-game stats.

Vistha KaiJun 8, 20155 votes

Ads? What's that?

SouL1essJun 7, 201548 votes

roflmao

meanwhile DotA 2 gives you the numbers in client

and when you mouseover the enemy hero skills in a game

and gives you almost every information you need to know about a skill (range number not given, but it shows a radius on the enemy hero / yourself when you mouse over a range-related skill)

Even HoN, a game the majority of players consider bad, has this feature.

Every other MOBA has better information transparency than League. A game considered noob-unfriendly due to burden of knowledge has much better (official) tools to share information.

And yet we are not supposed to know? Not having the information available is terrible for learning. That should put League as the least noob-friendly MOBA game.

TheRainInSpainJun 8, 20152 votes

Least noob friendly. Most professional friendly. --Game based on getting people to buy stuff from cash shop.

Honestly, I think it's bad management from both Rito's level and Tencent's level. Rito sees League as the "major leagues baseball" game. League players should have already played through SMITE, HoN, HOTS, and DOTA2 before playing League. They should know the basic tenets of a MOBA game.

Then Tencent sees it as "this game is making money, nothing needs to change" because they're a holding company. They don't do anything to whatever they own unless it's going into the red.

SyvenonJun 8, 20151 votes

Problem is, if people played Smite before League they would have no reason to switch because Smite is SO MUCH BETTER.

HouseCat01Jun 11, 20151 votes

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QtwIwAGoVChMIrK2ri9-GxgIVxBeSCh1sOw3s&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3OROWtr4F8E&ei=XgZ5VayGDMSvyATs9rTgDg&usg=AFQjCNGV5He0J9oah5zllVdl6-5zpzuhcw&sig2=eRHcRIJgyzeb4zepb0earg

Critmaster GarenJun 7, 201518 votes

{quoted}

Those numbers are data-mined information. Riot is not encouraging people to datamine, aka you are not supposed to know those numbers.

those numbers are displayed in ingame tooltips. they are also published with the patch notes in case of changes...

{quoted}

To be completely fair, it sounds like that information is already available. Whether or not it's officially hosted by Riot is inconsequential. Furthermore, Riot would have to completely overhaul their client in order to efficiently supply players with the kind of information that LOL Wiki hosts. Businesses work on finite resources and I'd rather see Riot spend more time and effort fixing broken champs than making a redundant first party Wikipedia.

it cant be that hard for them to grab the information from the files.

and im not just talking about the description in client. but also here on their homepage, where there is supposed to be detailed information on the champions.

its just that some information is simply missing. ability cooldowns, and passive scalings for example.

i mean how can you mostly list everything else, but forget the freaking ability cooldowns?