Riot can't turn back anymore. The game is too far gone.

Jefftiffy··7 votes·711 views

Let's look at all the examples of kits they have made or redone that have been absolute garbage from a design stand point. I mean garbage as in the concept is not salvageable because it breaks the entire game in its design.

Quinn - ult with a near 100% uptime and no time limit that basically doubles her mobility and adds damage to a kit with 2 build in sources of mobility one of which peels and to top it off her blind now basically removes the option of AAing her and removes your vision. You gave an ADC an Assassin level mobility ult with no CD. Automatically makes her impossible to balance.

Graves gets free tank for building ADC and has one of the highest bursts of any ADC in the game at the same time with relatively high sustain and little set up.

Caitlyn let's take an early game ADC and give them late game because they weren't a problem for that exact reason in S3/4.

Ekko Let's give someone high base damage and high AP ratios because we can't even take our own advice about mages (aka as base damages are low and high scalings for mages usually). So now we have to deal with a mage being built tank and everyone thinks it is cancer.

Brand High damage AoE nuker. So let's give him more AoE to help him where he hurts, but not take away his potential to burst someone with even a item 1057.

TahmKench was probably one of the best fixes they have done actually.

Illaoi. Let's load all her power into one ability (her E) then take it away because it was too toxic and not compensate her elsewhere. So now she is toxic against people she counters but utterly useless against anyone else.

AurelionSol Let's make a champ that moves faster and makes a bigger CC just by going in straight line and has an ability to make it even easier and can essentially farm with a spell that costs 0. That won't be a big balance problem down the line, welp to fix it he can't hide in bushes.

Malzahar Let's take someone who was AIDS (joke here) and countered by a single item which is only really good on ADCs and give the ability to give you cancer too while still being countered by the same single item. Giving a lockdown AoE mage a CC immunity and 90% damage reduction is a great idea especially when the CD is low late game when he is the most cancerous.

Taliyah Let's make a champ who's kit is all about mobility and hurting themselves for casting their own abilities and throws rocks that punish dashing which can only really be used in a cheesy combo.

Now they may not all be "OP", but they are all broken in the sense that they can never ever be close to balanced in the states they are in. They will always be stupid strong or so weak that you will never pick them. Mostly because most kits are being designed around how the player playing them feels instead of both ways.

item 3152 Let's make an item to help immobile mages get into fights easier. Oh wait it's being used by the super mobile champs more because it just gives them more of what they don't have trade offs for. Better nerf it until we figure out that you can't make a mobility item that also does damage.

Mage rework completely removed most mana regen options as well meaning that now poke mages and siege mages are now at an all time low because they have no where to tap into for their high mana costs and low mana pools because their mana costs were made high to limit how often they can use their kits if they build mana regen instead of mana pool. So now almost every mage is built as super burst.

item 3742 Item that literally gives tanks that are supposed to be weak to kiting the ability to catch people who have even itemized against immobile characters with really strong kits making people like Olaf Darius Volibear constant problems.

Let's not forget the bright idea to power creep the game at all points with Keystones. And the slow creep of skill caps to lower levels (seriously so many champs have lost their high skill ceilings).

I just don't understand. How long is Riot going to keep stepping all over their philosophies. There is a reason specific champs are immobile, squishy, revolve around single abilities, or have low damage. You can't just keep power creeping everything. This may seem like "the most diverse season ever", but it's only because the game is such a shit storm of power creep that you can practically do almost anything and get away with it. The limits champs had just a couple of seasons ago are gone. These limits were there to prevent this non sense power creep and you just keep removing them making it even worse.

And to top it all off they are ignoring the player base on simple things like Solo Queue when they have proven they have the resources to make it possible. They brought in the old Teams Queue. They brought in rotating queue. They took away dominion (even less to maintain means it would be easier to do solo queue).

It has been almost 8 months and we still have 0 customer service on a huge issue and pushing something off for a year and not telling your player base is a big reason I have stopped spending on this game and don't plan on it anymore. Players are leaving. Damage is being done that can't be undone and they are screwing their reputation. And the worst thing is the player base let's it happen. They push it under the rug, they keep spending blindly. It's what drove CoD to ruins. It's what drove Jagex into the ground.

Riot may say that the game is doing fine, but it really isn't. There are no new players for the most part and they are failing at retaining their current ones.

17 Comments

Miror B4 votes

The big problem is that the new player experience still remains incredibly tedious/annoying and doesn't actively teach them anything. If anything, it turns them off wanting to play this game as I really doubt anyone wants to play a mastery/runeless champ with heal/ghost against what is either going to be a bot or someone trying to grind up their smurf.

Ralanr6 votes

I blame the community on new player experience honestly. Sure the newbie teaching system sucks ass, but that can be fixed.

Toxicity? Not so much.

Miror B3 votes

{quoted}

I blame the community on new player experience honestly. Sure the newbie teaching system sucks ass, but that can be fixed.

Toxicity? Not so much.

It "can" be, but it hasn't despite existing for years. Aside from mmorpg's, noone actively wants to grind up to a decent level/the ability to play a game. People want to be able to go into a game and play it as fast as possible without any strings attached (hence why mobile games are so popular now). The real question is this: why should I spend 2-3months grinding an account to lv30 while dealing with the likes of bots/trolls/afk'ers/smurfs, when I can jump right into a different game with the basic "tools" unlocked?

Ralanr2 votes

This is actually why I don't play MMO's anymore. Not because I hate grinding, but because the end game offered nothing in comparison to the grinding.

Though I wouldn't have hit 30 if I didn't play bots with friends in college.

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

That last sentence sums it up perfectly. At the rate it's going, this game will be gone and forgotten within five years. Really unfortunate, given how fun it was in its first two years.

Ralanr2 votes

You realize that Ekko is an assassin/Mage and not a Mage/assassin right?

LegitBusinessman2 votes

The solitary decision that's breaking the game since pre-season is exactly what you stated. Any limit on power creep is out the window. Every champ is just a one combo kill and reworks aren't respecting former concepts of balance and just loading damage onto kits.

rtbf221479702 votes

I agree with everything but taliyah. She's absolutely top tier in the right hands and shouldn't be underestimated. Especially with her upcoming combo buff. The mines are also useful for initial damage and a huge aoe slow.

Jefftiffy2 votes

One thing I forgot to mention is how much clarity hurts new player experience. I have been playing for about 3 years. And in those 3 year I still have not seen every interaction and am still surprised that certain interactions occur because of how the game is coded. Riot hasn't sat down and dealt with specific things like that either.

Like how Velkoz pop up is a projectile (how would a new player know this by looking at it). Or how Yasuo can ult off of people hit by a Draven E. Or how you can peel Warwick ult off yourself with a perfectly timed skill shot. There are so many unclear things in this game. And I feel it keeps getting ignored.

Another case being Shen's AoE block. I still get caught off guard as an AA champ every once in awhile because that is just no indication of whats going on other than a giant glowing circle.

Gibberwatt2 votes

Wow. Thats almost 10 champs and two items. Thats, like, 6% of champs, and about .5% of items that are op. Personally, I think that if the government got about 94% of their stuff right, we would be living on mars by now. So, Good Job, Riot.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Wow. Thats almost 10 champs and two items. Thats, like, 6% of champs, and about .5% of items that are op. Personally, I think that if the government got about 94% of their stuff right, we would be living on mars by now. So, Good Job, Riot.

The thing is it is every kit they design. That's more than 75% of the new content that has been terrible. Meanwhile they are no longer support dominion and didn't put out anything new this year for any of the holidays. All it really has been this year is skins. There has been no real new content. It's all been bad half assed reworks. Or duplicate reworks of champs that they screwed up the first time.

I could make a paper about how bad Riot has fucked up, but I already wrote a wall so I was planning on trying to keep it short enough to get the point.

If you want me to continue there is item 3147 which failed to help struggling assassin's which ironically don't have room for it in their builds and is now being used by an ADC to secure kills because its the safest way for him to get his damage off.

item 3030 is just a terrible item when item 3146 exists.

Veigar let's give the tiny toxic damage nuker more consistent damage overall but forget about how oppressive he is if he get's ahead and how it's easier with the new rework to do it. (There is no bias on this one, I have mained him in mid since before even his first rework to make the stun non-instant and skill shot Q).

item 3285. Man you thought DFG was annoying for squishies and tanks. Wait till you get a load of the item with a higher up time and scales with your AP (it's better but really ironic that a mini DFG was made when DFG was removed for the same reason Luden's was put in).

What the fuck happened to these reworks: Aatrox Yorick Galio Evelynn Volibear Rammus Singed Irelia . Like seriously all of them have needed reworks and Riot has acknowledged it and it's been 2+ years. And look where we are now.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

You have no idea what you're talking about, and it shows with your first mentioned champion already.

Quinn - ult with a near 100% uptime and no time limit that basically doubles her mobility and adds damage to a kit with 2 build in sources of mobility one of which peels and to top it off her blind now basically removes the option of AAing her and removes your vision. You gave an ADC an Assassin level mobility ult with no CD. Automatically makes her impossible to balance.

  • 100% Uptime? Not at all - it goes away on any damage or immobilizing CC you take from a champion or tower. Without proccing the extra damage to boot.
  • Adds damage? Yes, the equivalent of one non-critting auto attack (100% AD), without any extra base damage.
  • 3 sources of mobility? Guess what her kit is intended to do - mobility and skirmishing.
  • Her blind completely removed the option to auto-attack ANYTHING before, while now it just limits your vision range. Which is, due to the scarcity of the effect, something many people have problems to learn to fight against - the only other sources of vision denial are Nocturne's Paranoia and Graves' Smokescreen.
  • Assassin-level mobility? Bull. Assassins have superhigh instant mobility in fights. She has her dash, which is not free to target (you know where she goes when she casts it).
  • Impossible to balance? Hardly at all. I'd wager that she is fairly balanced nowadays, while being a tad obnoxious to fight. But, then again, who isn't?
  • Also, Quinn's mobility is compensated for by her lower auto-attack range. And, considering that auto-attacks are her main source of damage (Harrier procs!), having a low AA range is a valid tradeoff.
Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

You have no idea what you're talking about, and it shows with your first mentioned champion already.

  • 100% Uptime? Not at all - it goes away on any damage or immobilizing CC you take from a champion or tower. Without proccing the extra damage to boot.
  • Adds damage? Yes, the equivalent of one non-critting auto attack (100% AD), without any extra base damage.
  • 3 sources of mobility? Guess what her kit is intended to do - mobility and skirmishing.
  • Her blind completely removed the option to auto-attack ANYTHING before, while now it just limits your vision range. Which is, due to the scarcity of the effect, something many people have problems to learn to fight against - the only other sources of vision denial are Nocturne's Paranoia and Graves' Smokescreen.
  • Assassin-level mobility? Bull. Assassins have superhigh instant mobility in fights. She has her dash, which is not free to target (you know where she goes when she casts it).
  • Impossible to balance? Hardly at all. I'd wager that she is fairly balanced nowadays, while being a tad obnoxious to fight. But, then again, who isn't?
  • Also, Quinn's mobility is compensated for by her lower auto-attack range. And, considering that auto-attacks are her main source of damage (Harrier procs!), having a low AA range is a valid tradeoff.

Duel=/= skirmish. She is a duelist assassin. She goes in blows someone up then team fights after. I sense a salty quinn main that doesnt realize how toxic her kit is to fight against. uptime is when it is up. It is almost never on CD.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

  • Also, Quinn's mobility is compensated for by her lower auto-attack range. And, considering that auto-attacks are her main source of damage (Harrier procs!), having a low AA range is a valid tradeoff.

With her mobility and burst combined with DPS it really isn't much a trade off. Low range means a lot to an immobile champ, but to Lucian and Quinn for example. It just makes them not as great at trading in lane. Outside of lane it doesn't effect them all that much with the way their kits are designed. Low range seems like a downside, but if you have the damage and the kit to back it up like Graves it proves how little range actually means.

When I play Veigar, I have super low range. That doesn't mean it makes it any safer to be near me. Because if I land a stun you are dead unless you blow a QSS which only stops one stun every 60s and my stun will be back up in 7.5s. And most of the time as Veigar you drop your nuke and leave. If they QSS you bail.

For Quinn there isn't a window to bail. She goes in with E to get her perfectly at kiting distance. It slows you, then she aa's and throws Q, so now you can't do anything unless you are all skill shot based and can guess where she moved to. And meanwhile she's popping harrier procs on you upping her DPS and burst at the same time. And if she was at least weak to being ganked by not having her W show her almost 1/4 the map then it would be kind of acceptable. All she has to do to check if she can duel is fly up and right before she goes in press W and then register whether its safe or not then go from there. There is no counter play to that. You can't bait it, you can only group and hope she's dumb enough to go in out numbered. Hence she can never be balanced as long as her strength is being an ADC that assassinates and has stupid high mobility and safety to help set it up.

It's partially how they redid her and Graves blind, but really once you fix that I think her kit is okayish because then you can actually fight back.

Blåbæret1 votes

Lmao, OP whining about basically every champ in the game.

Laughed good at the Quinn rant.

Just leave bro, you won't be missed.

Harvey Rabbit1 votes

Do you think it comes down to a bigger issue of too much constant tweaking and changing? There are significant changes to many champs and items every two or three weeks! With 130 champions and (hundreds) of items, that leaves the game in a constant state of flux and is intrinsically imbalancing. It's really hard for anyone to know what is reasonably balanced or not when changes are constantly followed by more changes before most players have a chance to understand and adapt to them.

Astôlfo1 votes

when people complain about things without even trying to be right

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