Kind of tired of LB

Jefftiffy·May 22, 2015·85 votes·5,271 views

Kind of wish she would just get gutted, but then you would have LB mains cry and honestly it wouldn't be fair. Every game it's play safe until maybe just maybe you have the chance to kill LB when she eventually makes a mistake (because that is fair and balanced right Riot?).

Number 1 problem with LB. High mobility, high damage, high burst (and even CC). She can burst squishies under a second and leave.

She needs her mobility nerfed or her damage. She should not do 1.6k damage with just 2 of her abilities at any point in the game. Period. She should require a full rotation to hit maybe 2.5k damage which is enough to kill a squishy through resists. As it is now she can burst for over 3k and then just say "hahahahahaha bye" as she blinks away.

93 Comments

OrangesilkMay 22, 201540 votes

You know what a 0/0/0 Le Blanc at minute 15 is to her team?, a liability. If you don't feed her and your botlane wards and doesn't get stupidly killed by her, you're denying her the one thing she excels at, early game damage. Watch her deflate into a teamfight-useless champion, deny her snowball.

Her kit is binary, she point and clicks bursts you. If she has somehow scrounged the gold to be able to disappear squishies with this, she's very powerful, BUT, binary also means that if you effectively didn't feed her and she can't burst squishies, she's useless. Her laning phase is obnoxious, yes, but that's because you're somehow trying to win lane against a champion with a powerful early game. All these LeBlanc posts feel like people going on like "I keep trying to dive Darius as a melee champion and HE KEEPS WINNING TRADES, Imba, please nerf".

Against LeBlanc play it safe, going 0/0 is a brutal victory against her.

TrumpetMay 22, 20152 votes

Couldn't have said it better.

Shield VillainMay 22, 201538 votes

This argument literally applies to all assassins. Just roam like every other assassin in the game, when you can't get fed in your own lane.

ChaoticPineconeMay 22, 20157 votes

Zed and Shaco can splitpush (and 1v1 almost anybody). Diana can engage. Kat can teamfight. Yasuo can teamfight. Ahri can teamfight. Talon can AOE chunk down teams, even if he doesnt get a kill.

this argument only applies to the binary single-target assasins, like Yi, Akali, and Leblanc.

Shield VillainMay 22, 20153 votes

Not even. If you didn't get fed as Kat, you have to roam and clean up after your other team mates. Talon? Same deal. Fizz? Same deal. Yasuo? Same deal. The only one who can slightly continue on is Diana, because she's more Bruiser than anything.

All assassins fall off the relevancy of the game if they don't get kills. All assassins rely on getting fed or ahead early game so they can help snowball their team, and increase their danger levels in the mid-to-late game. This argument that Leblanc falls off if she doesn't get fed, literally applies to every assassin.

Or are you going to pretend to tell me that a yasuo at 15 minutes, with no kills and only mediocre CS from lane is going to somehow carry his game?

I main Talon, I know how difficult a mid game can be when you don't get kills. You do nowhere near enough damage to an ADC to burst them, tanks take little to no damage, and your AOE is hardly enough to assist. Even if you go ham and blow your rotation, you'll be lucky if the ADC is left below half health. And you better pray to god that their team has no cc. Because you go in, and you're not getting out.

Leblanc has an easy escape. Even if she can't kill she can GTFO in a heart beat. They nerfed Zed so he won't be able to do that anymore. And of course Katarina can only do that if she lands a kill. Though a Fizz is pretty much only going to be able to pole hope once as well, and possibly get caught while trying to land his hop.

ChaoticPineconeMay 22, 20153 votes

Kats teamfighting isnt horrible if she is 0/0/0. its not great, but its not horrible. Same with Yasuo (provided someone gives him a good knockup on a carry). Talon still puts out massive AOE and provides a very nice shred if you buy BC + Hydra.

No - they wont carry. They wont insta-delete someone. But they do enough AOE damage (and in Yasuos case, has enough utility and late-game scaling) even without deleting someone, you are useful to your team. Not as much as a Mage, but useful enough to not be a burden. Kat is the interesting one of the assasins, as she is an AOE assassin. If you can manage to get 2 resets, you can still make up for being behind by doing as much damage AOE damage as mages. Since you dont need a kill - just an assist - you can be useful, provided that you have more than "im going to dive the backline" in your playbook. For example, ult the tank thats diving your ADC. You dont get a solo kill, but a fully channeled ult at the tank while your ADC is chipping away at them is enough to get a reset. Its not as good as deleting the enemy ADC/APC, but its good enough not to be a burden.

an underfed Akali and YI are just burdens.

i may have understated Leblanc's usefulness, as she can still double-chain any tank trying to reach your ADC. but its still not much without damage, she isnt great. As a Leblanc, there is no point in getting the enemy ADC down to 25% health if they have any lifesteal. All you have done is wasted your cooldowns.

OrangesilkMay 22, 20152 votes

This is depending entirely on when is an assassin at their most powerful.

Kat and Yasuo have terrible, terrible, TERRIBLE laning phases (made a bit better by the fact that the mana-mages got kicked in the groin). And are at their strongest in teamfights, they are often hoping to get fed off a dragon fight or such.

Akali is at her strongest the moment she hits 6, before this she is rather weak, and easy to bully around, depending on the matchup and the situation, by the time she hits 6, it may be too late. Since she isn't particularly strong in teamfights she's a bit of a burden once she's fallen behind. She is similar regarding this to Talon, but Talons AoE capabilties still allow him to contribute something to a fight even when behind.

Le Blanc is different from most assassins in that she is at her strongest from the get-go, her lvl 2 cheese is very strong, she is a strong laner, and a strong roamer. She is very likely to snowball if you let her, but very weak if you don't. She was similar to Fizz in this regard, but Fizz has been severely nerfed since and doesn't really stand out at any point in the game.

Ahri is very strong at all points of the game, her lane phase is pretty oppresssive since she has decent poke, and a brutal all-in if you take a charm to the face. Her teamfighting is very strong by virtue of her CC, poke, mobility and burst, she does it all, but she is rendered useless by her charm being dodged.

Zed is a funny one, he doesn't NEED to get fed to be relevant since his kit grants him free stats, and his laning phase is very safe, but unless you are eating shurikens to the face all day long, he isn't really a strong laner who can snowball off you.

Diana is more of a bursty bruiser and Yi is a carry-type jungler, they aren't really assassins since they can't do the "Go in, kill someone, go out" shtick.

QuortMay 22, 20156 votes

LeBlanc needs the return pad... after she's used her skills to burst a target, what else does she have to do? By the time she's used Distortion she's likely used her other abilities. Unlike AD Assassins her auto attacks don't do anything and even if she gets the kill it's not as though she gets resets like Katarina so LeBlanc really has no reason to stick around. Her Distortion also has a delay which means she's vulnerable while dashing and she's even kind enough to mark for you where she will return.

LeBlanc has no defensive mechanisms outside her return pad and her brief invisisbility/clone. Fizz, Yasuo, Riven, Master Yi, Diana, and even Katarina have ways to mitigate damage. LeBlanc has to manage her mana, again, unlike Riven, Yasuo, or Katarina. LeBlanc has no health sustain unlike AD Assassins that would build lifesteal or Ahri. LeBlanc is a poor splitpusher unlike Talon, Shaco, Yasuo, and Master Yi. LeBlanc has poor initiation and crowd control unlike Fizz, Diana, Yasuo, Ahri, and Riven.

The gist of it is that LeBlanc has weaknesses that balance and even necessitate the level of safety available to her. Even if you don't manage to kill her because of these features, preventing her from killing you is devastating to her game performance. If you see LeBlanc, build a Hexdrinker, or an Abyssal Scepter, or a Banshee's Veil... even Banner of Command or Athene's Unholy Grail will help mitigate her damage while providing some other decent stats. There's an item for everyone! There's also certain Champions that will give LeBlanc a hard time... try Galio, or Swain, or any number of others that will give you an edge.

Only Play DariusMay 23, 20152 votes

Did you just say MasterYi can't splitpush (or 1v1 almost anybody)?

SpecterVonBarenMay 25, 20151 votes

Uh, Yi can still be useful for splitpushing and while he can easily blow up in a teamfight if he waits a while then he can easily clean up the aftermath of one.

ShifuneMay 23, 20152 votes

Wish more people could see Leblanc the same way that you and I do. So many QQ threads about Leblanc complaining that they can't kill her in lane or whatever. WINNING LANE DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO KILL YOUR OPPONENT!! Leblanc is terrible at farming early. If you deny her kills early, you should have more cs than her on almost any mid laner. This makes you effectively stronger than Leblanc when you leave laning phase because you will have more gold than her. Leblanc isn't OP or broken, people just don't know how to play against her.

JefftiffyMay 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Wish more people could see Leblanc the same way that you and I do. So many QQ threads about Leblanc complaining that they can't kill her in lane or whatever. WINNING LANE DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO KILL YOUR OPPONENT!! Leblanc is terrible at farming early. If you deny her kills early, you should have more cs than her on almost any mid laner. This makes you effectively stronger than Leblanc when you leave laning phase because you will have more gold than her. Leblanc isn't OP or broken, people just don't know how to play against her.

Then she roams and blows up your lanes while you attempt to follow hoping its not bait. The problem with her. Is she is like Akali pre-nerfs. Even if you deny her spike. Your team can easily give her 1-2 kills and she is now on par or ahead. And given her ability to burst you it's hard to follow her into the unknown safely.

SkiasMay 23, 20152 votes

People arent complaining that shes OP or Broken. People are complaining that shes a misery to lane against and not fun. Kalista was the same way before they removed her backdash.

RikariMay 23, 20152 votes

Easier said than done.Her Q+W has more range than most auto attacks,so she can engage whenever you last hit. Also if she farms up well,she can just press W+R+E+Q=GG at 6

SkiasMay 23, 20153 votes

My biggest problem fighting her is her animations have a ton of blinky visual noise. Nothing is clear as to what is happening to you when she rolls her face across q w e r. She needs a cleaning pass really badly.

THESuperStuntManMay 23, 20152 votes

She's really not though. Even with no kills she can still burst a lot of people for most of the game. Also, saying she's a liability if she gets to 15 minutes without a kill is pretty much a pointless statement since there's almost no way a good Leblanc wouldn't have a kill by then. It's like Katarina. You don't ban her cuz you think she'll kill you in lane, you ban her cuz it doesn't matter if she gets a kill in lane; eventually she'll roam and get a double kill then snowball the game from there.

ThumpinMay 23, 20151 votes

This is so fucking wrong it hurts. If she has respectable farm she can still demolish a squishy target with one combo. What you're suggesting is play so damn well that she's hugging turret and unable to do anything but soak up xp, but that doesn't happen outside of co-op vs AI.

GodarenMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You know what a 0/0/0 Le Blanc at minute 15 is to her team?, a liability. If you don't feed her and your botlane wards and doesn't get stupidly killed by her, you're denying her the one thing she excels at, early game damage. Watch her deflate into a teamfight-useless champion, deny her snowball.

Her kit is binary, she point and clicks bursts you. If she has somehow scrounged the gold to be able to disappear squishies with this, she's very powerful, BUT, binary also means that if you effectively didn't feed her and she can't burst squishies, she's useless. Her laning phase is obnoxious, yes, but that's because you're somehow trying to win lane against a champion with a powerful early game. All these LeBlanc posts feel like people going on like "I keep trying to dive Darius as a melee champion and HE KEEPS WINNING TRADES, Imba, please nerf".

Against LeBlanc play it safe, going 0/0 is a brutal victory against her.

Except Leblanc is like the easiest mid in the game to get fed on, Massive Mobility and Massive burst, why would they gut kassadin but not this champ?

Linna ExcelMay 22, 20154 votes

I think most people problem with LB and why a lot of people love playing her is her shenanigans. She's got high mobility and high single target damage. When played right she's very difficult to play against as she offers little counterplay for kill potential.

Figure, she's got 2 dashs in her W on a lowish CD while Ahri gets 3 in a long CD ult. In the same period of time, LB can dash up to 6 times (8-10 if she ults her dash). W-R-Q-E-W lets her do a bit of damage and then retreat a long way back if there's someone low she can pick off easily. Or she can W-Q-R-E-W for more damage and a smaller escape.

SerevasMay 22, 20157 votes

I also love tricking people with the clone. I've had Rengars ult to chase my clone, Veigar's ult my clone, Lee Sin hits it with Q and then gets dashed further away, Lane opponent ignites the clone, just a lot of fun overall.

Linna ExcelMay 22, 20152 votes

Yes, that's another part of it as well. A well played Leblanc can be a very tricky lane opponent and that's why people hate playing against her.

JefftiffyMay 22, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=itVhc5mP,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-22T18:56:09.048+0000)

Yes, that's another part of it as well. A well played Leblanc can be a very tricky lane opponent and that's why people hate playing against her.

No she is straight up broken ever since mana regen was nerfed. The way you beat her before was to beat the ever living mercy out of every creep that contested your lane until she was sitting under tower with no wave clear while you just sit there and regen mana and roam or let her burn hers. Now it's kind of reversed. She just lets you push her to tower or blows you up (sometimes both).

This was the same how you dealt with Zed and Katarina. (look what happens when you take a weakness and change the things that makes it a weakness)

And she doesn't even fall off as much as she is supposed to. She gets to one shot range and then she just sits there until eventually you get enough damage to kill her before she kills you.

khorneyMay 22, 20153 votes

{quoted}

No she is straight up broken ever since mana regen was nerfed. The way you beat her before was to beat the ever living mercy out of every creep that contested your lane until she was sitting under tower with no wave clear while you just sit there and regen mana and roam or let her burn hers. Now it's kind of reversed. She just lets you push her to tower or blows you up (sometimes both).

This was the same how you dealt with Zed and Katarina. (look what happens when you take a weakness and change the things that makes it a weakness)

And she doesn't even fall off as much as she is supposed to. She gets to one shot range and then she just sits there until eventually you get enough damage to kill her before she kills you.

Or you could start using zilean watch her do nothing to you . or even better just ban her

PikaCHU567May 22, 20154 votes

Lower the Chain Snare from 1.5 to 1 and Chain Slow from 25% to 15% or 10%

Would this help or no?

AudiomancyMay 22, 20156 votes

{quoted}

Lower the Chain Snare from 1.5 to 1 and Chain Slow from 25% to 15% or 10%

Would this help or no?

The main issue is her QW combo. E is fine overall; just needs its hitbox fixed...

khorneyMay 22, 20154 votes

Then ban her . not a hard concept

For CarthageMay 23, 20153 votes

LB's damage doesn't need a nerf and her mobility is just really, really obnoxious. It's also all that keeps her alive.

The literal only problem LB has in her repertoire of gameplay is that she is, by far, the most obnoxious and unenjoyable champion to lane against in all of League. There is no contest, there are no competitors - laning against an LB is enough to make you want to grab a revolver and blow your brains out right there because at least the agony would end faster.

So far, the general consensus has been that anything done to balance out this incredibly obnoxious laning phase will either in reality do next to nothing about this issue or she'll become virtually worthless since if she can't do her job in lane, she doesn't exist in the mid to late-game.

Try playing her yourself. I know she's not fun to play against. I know she's miserable to be facing. But I'm also fully aware of how much of a pile of shit her playstyle is come lategame when your ADC is sitting behind an entire wall of CC-packing tanks waiting to lock her ass down if she so much as makes a twitch towards your squishies.

Buttigieg 2020May 23, 20153 votes

"Most obnoxious laning phase" Darius and Tryndamere beg to argue

OwlytheMay 23, 20151 votes

At least you can trade back against Darius and Tryndamere to some extent early game...

JefftiffyMay 23, 20153 votes

I will admit this is kind of a vent thread. But LB does need something done. Even if its not a numbers nerf. She needs something to make her more dealable. As it is now it is very unfun to lane against her as anyone who doesn't counter her pre and post 6.

TNHA BaritoneMay 23, 20153 votes

To be honest, I can't stand when people come to these discussions and pretend like they have never gone against a LeBlanc who took 3/4 of their health with her Q W before level 6. Im not sure any other mid laner can do that with that type of mobility. Sure LeBlanc has counter play, but not enough. You cannot control your team, so even if you don't die in lane, someone might die to her.

I Main SwainMay 23, 20152 votes

I see no good reason that her w should be in the state it is. or that her q should be a target ability while veigar's cant. here are my suggested nerfs.

decrease the radius on her w so you can actually dodge it.
give her either a delay before she can reactivate w or reduce the amount of time she can go back. a single high cc champ should be able to consistently stop her from reactivating w.
make her q a skill shot so she cant get that guaranteed double q nuke off.
increase the cd on her ult. as is killing her after lvl 6 is nearly impossible if she doesn't want to get caught.

KazaLyn ShaoMay 23, 20152 votes

The problem with LB is:

She play style is fairly safe. Easy entrance to fight. Easy damage to put down, and easy exit from fight all within a span of 2 seconds or less.
Targeted, high burst damage. No counter play to this. She gets you in range, you take damage, lots of it.
She becomes powerful very quickly. LB does start to fall off a bit later in the game, but her early game is amazing, and laning against her makes you want to hang yourself.

Either way, I just make sure she's banned every game. Problem solved.

Mandang0May 22, 20151 votes

I highly doubt 2 of anyone's spells can do 1.6k damage, much less 2 of LB's.

That said, I completely agree that she's terrible to play against & I wish I saw her less often.

AudiomancyMay 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I highly doubt 2 of anyone's spells can do 1.6k damage, much less 2 of LB's.

That said, I completely agree that she's terrible to play against & I wish I saw her less often.

Veigar

MavisSenpaiMay 23, 20151 votes

I'm surprised I don't see people complain about Swain on here if this is the gist of your argument. One thing I don't think many people brought up is how useless she is if you can predict her rotation and just stun her and walk away. Simple. If you can even dodge 2 of her abilities she should not delete you unless you have been feeding her. If you know you are going to have a hard lane there is always the option of roaming or having the jungler camp your lane so she is too afraid to all in you. So many counter plays to every champion.

OrangesilkMay 23, 20152 votes

Swain is immobile and can be punished, what most people hate about LeBlanc is how she doesn't pay for her mistakes.

Worst Mid EverMay 23, 20151 votes

im kind of tired of seeing bronze trash asking for nerfs on every high skillcap champion because they got outplayed in one game, riot should just split solo q into bronze-gold and plat-challenger and balance both parts differently because you will obviously never learn that most champions have counterplay and those who don't because of recent changes to them are fixed a few patches later, and that instead of whining on the forums you should go watch a high elo vod of the matchup, analyse your own replay, get coaching, read a guide ect

or better yet, take that "op champ" into a few solo q games and see how you go, statistically with leblanc you won't be winning more than you lose until you've played 50+ ranked games

BetaDude40May 23, 20152 votes

Once again, pin it on us.

The stereotypes of the "Bad Bronzies" will never end, it seems.

Because, obviously, the players who don't put much time into ranked or aren't as skilled as everyone else are the exact reason why League is failing* right now!

We have to stop this "Bronze Agenda" before they can even have a smidgen of humanity and express a thought!!!

THE BROBLE SAYS WE SHOULD STONE BRONZES!!!

*Note, I don't actually think League is failing, just for clarification.

Worst Mid EverMay 23, 20151 votes

im not pinning anything on you, im just saying i dont want people who dont understand or as you said put much time into the game deciding balance simply because there are more of you, mob rule ruins anything it touches

SkiasMay 23, 20152 votes

Sorry bro, skill has nothing to do with her being an unfun opponent. Skill doesnt equal enjoyment. Otherwise this game wouldnt exist right now. Fighting on equal ground is where this game shines. Doesnt really matter if youre silver or diamond as long as you are fighting someone of equal skill. But im willing to bet people having to fight faker while he suckles at the LB teet is having as bad a time as the silver having to fight her.

ZahzMay 23, 20151 votes

any ap carry or burst mage can kill squishies in seconds.

JefftiffyMay 23, 20153 votes

{quoted}

any ap carry or burst mage can kill squishies in seconds.

Seconds. Key word. LB has the capability to do it in under 1. And have it up again by the time your GA is done.

ZahzMay 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Seconds. Key word. LB has the capability to do it in under 1. And have it up again by the time your GA is done.

yes but she does it to only one target and has to haul ass or die. burst mages can do it to multiple targets in most cases. Ziggs or lux are great examples of champs that can punish you and your team from extreme ranges without the risk leblanc has going in close with a move that requires her to be in melee range. And to top it off you know exactly where she can port back to for her escape that you can use to your advantage.

lDontLiftIcarryMay 23, 20151 votes

posting in another unranked/plat or lower nerf leblanc thread

Hi mom

l2p swain/syndra/cho/sivir/not stand by walls/position. problem solved

Let me start with my hilarious reply to these leblanc nerf spammers <3 with,...

Because you're wrong. And don't even know her base stats to know that her Q without being popped does zero damage. Most leblancs max W because the chance of popping E/Q on most enemies is low so they go with the lower overall but quicker upfront damge W.

this is actually the SLOWER WAY to kill you.

Its more orientedon moving around the map picking up assists./kills on poorly aware enemies.

Has nothing to do with 1v1ing. Infact losing a 1v1 to leblanc that maxes W first makes you look like you're shit. Did I mention that leblanc maxing W is weaker than Q? Or even E?

Did i mention that you should be winning 1v1's against most leblancs because they max w?

Btw.

Just saying. Btw.

thePandevMay 23, 20154 votes

All I see here is you being some butthurt Leblanc main (As OP mentioned) talking about how ''she's ez to beat if u pick a counter''. No shit. That's the point of a counter. Yet funny thing is you make fun of low elos yet all the mids you listed are trash in higher levels of play (Except Morgana mid who got hard nerfed)

Slower way to kill you using QW? In laning phase LB still outbursts almost all mages in a couple of seconds with a blink back. The only people I can think capable of matching her burst are Annie who is completely immobile and Fizz who is a melee. Nothing but facts here.

And if even slightly fed, her snowballing is higher than almost every other champion in the game. Only champion I have ever seen to kill someone in less than 0.5 seconds and just click a button to get away.

If LB only killed ''Poorly aware'' enemies, I honestly doubt she would be pick/ban in almost every region on a competitive basis.

So please don't act like you're some god posting on a level 18 account when it's clear to nearly everyone this champion is simply toxic.

lDontLiftIcarryMay 23, 20151 votes

http://lan.op.gg/summoner/userName=Jungling

I DON'T EVEN MID LANE BRO

I'm so confident against leblanc I'd play katarina until high diamond.

thePandevMay 23, 20151 votes

I'm only saying the truth. A diamond 5 in LAN talking down to people. Lmao I have absolutely nothing to say here.

And please don't turn this into a 1v1ing argument when there are probably people above your rank who think Leblanc is OP too who would shit on you just as hard.

SociopathFriendMay 23, 20151 votes

Malzahar I have no issue with her

JefftiffyMay 23, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I have no issue with her

Picking counters usually and winning isn't much of a feat. Especially hard counters. But if LB picks after you, you can't just simply go "HA! I HAVE THE SOLUTION!"

It's the same thing I have against people saying why didn't you ban her? Because maybe I didn't have control over bans?