Camille is probably one of the most toxic champs right now

Jefftiffy··72 votes·4,425 views

If you have no mobility there is nothing you can do. Her shield at level 3 essentially negates any chance to kill her. And to top it off her range and mana costs are pretty low and her kit encourages her to use the full mobility instead of discarding some of it.

My biggest problem is her dash. Just fought against her mid lane Veigar vs. Camille. I couldn't do jack shit. If I tried to farm she would just Q E on me. Her dash could hit mid lane walls from the middle of lane then she could bounce to me just barely outside of tower range meanwhile im stuck eating a full rotation able to do nothing. Her dash is so fast that she can literally just use both dashes before my cage forms. And even if she is a complete and utter moron and stands and eats full rotation she only loses half hp because her shield blocks like 150-200 magic damage early on. I even rushed a item 3191 to mitigate her damage. She could still kill me in about 2s even if I had flash.

I feel like Camille can never be balanced the way her kit is right now. Her Q range needs to be like 80-90% of what it is right now, and her mana costs are way too low if she just spams E and her AA enhancer you can't win lane. 90% slow is stupid for someone who has an ability that is a double gap closer. The slow should be 50% at most. She already gets an AS buff, damage buff, stun, AoE, and a heal just for going in on you.

When you make a kit pretty obviously designed to be a jungler and they end up laning and destroying almost everyone there is a problem. Camille needs to be nerfed in specific areas or she will never be allowed to be balanced. Nerfing her ult, hp pool, and shield will not help that. The problem is her core abilities.

93 Comments

Scruberz31 votes

Banning her has worked for me 100% of the time

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

You don't get to ban every game, only 3 out of 5, so it works 100% of the time 60% of the time.

Scruberz1 votes

You can always ask your teammates to ban her. It usually isn't hard to convince them ;).

BIackfox16 votes

Don't forget the true damage

Troll for Trump15 votes

She wasn't designed to be a jgler, that's why her W does reduced dmg to monsters.

She's basically meant to be a laner that ends up roaming around a lot like a jgler. I guess they didn't want top lane island.

Erockandroll4 votes

{quoted}

She wasn't designed to be a jgler, that's why her W does reduced dmg to monsters.

She's basically meant to be a laner that ends up roaming around a lot like a jgler. I guess they didn't want top lane island.

That would have made her better in the mid lane. If she was designed to roam that much, she would have done so playing a position that gave her the best roam potential.

And yet, I think she currently works best as a top laner due to her split push potential. Mainly the part where her Qs work on Turrets.

Jefftiffy6 votes

{quoted}

She wasn't designed to be a jgler, that's why her W does reduced dmg to monsters.

She's basically meant to be a laner that ends up roaming around a lot like a jgler. I guess they didn't want top lane island.

Just because she wasn't designed as a jungler doesn't mean that they didn't make a junglers kit. Most junglers focus on mobility, interaction with walls, clear speed, and high dueling potential. The only thing that Camille is bad at the forces her out of the jungle is the fact that her clear is super slow, but the second she fights champs she basically becomes unkillable until around the 20 minute mark when kits finally start to be able to overcome her shielding and damage assuming you haven't fed her at all.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

I guess they didn't want top lane island.

Yorick

ttvInvalidleuser6 votes

Poppy really upsets Camille.

dunder kill23 votes

Poppy is just ridiculously strong and shouldn't be used as a benchmark

500000000000000010 votes

Even if Poppy were weaker overall, the knock down+stun would be a powerful counter against Camille.

ttvInvalidleuser3 votes

{quoted}

Poppy is just ridiculously strong and shouldn't be used as a benchmark

My bad, just throwing an option out there. Wasn't a benchmark, just figured with steadfast presence and a way to punish Camille for getting near a wall that it would help.

Latex Choker5 votes

Even with more nerfs Poppy dumpsters Camille. With the ability to stun camille for trying E, or negating it with W if shes too far, to having a far superior shield to trade with, to being able to stop Camille's ult with either E or R, Poppy is a champion at her core that is able to not only fuck with Camille in lane, but prevent her from achieving her job in teamfights too.

TheIronRevenant5 votes

So does fiora, her stun is very predictable and easily parried

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

Lol I was pretty sure that one on one not even poppy beats Camille and I was right. All poppy stops me from doing is hard engaging her. She has too build almost completely armor to not get shredded by Camille.

ttvInvalidleuser2 votes

{quoted}

Lol I was pretty sure that one on one not even poppy beats Camille and I was right. All poppy stops me from doing is hard engaging her. She has too build almost completely armor to not get shredded by Camille.

She not ult you out of your ult? Again, it was just a suggestion. If J was put in the situation my focus would be keeping you off of carries and saving my ult for Camille's. Camille isn't 100% impossible to play against is all I was getting at originally.

Asayake 5150glow6 votes

Fucking BS how her E gets priority over other CC's like Quinn's E.

Death and Doom6 votes

I think the #1 problem with camille is her E. wayyyy too long range, and then they slapped on a stun, decent damage, and a as boost. like wth. dontcha think its strong enough???

and even that wasnt enough. i might have thought the ult was just a strong ult, but since it has such a small range i was ok with it. but she can just e from her backline to yours, ult the squishy and instakill them before my team can get back, let alone the sheild.

Shuyin1785 votes

I have 1 champion that has almost no mobility but ruins her day. TahmKench

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

I have 1 champion that has almost no mobility but ruins her day. TahmKench

when she gets lifesteal she can mitigate all of his damage meanwhile dealing like 1k true damage every 3 seconds or so.

Shuyin1782 votes

You're hyping Camille and underestimating the Kench.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

You're hyping Camille and underestimating the Kench.

i dont see him beating her if she gets tanky tbh.

MFTORANK15 votes

I never thought I'd live to see something more broken than tank Ekko, guess I was wrong.

GrReaper963 votes

You obviously missed old XZ/Evelynn

Niyumi4 votes

Or you could, you know, learn how to play against her. Always an option.

Oh and, by the way, Veigar is WEAK TO PEOPLE WITH MOBILITY WHO CAN JUMP ON HIM -- gee, big surprise Camille handed your ass to you.

Legacy Hydralpha3 votes

As someone who's played a lot of Veigar before, I can say like all mages: MOBILE CHAMPS DESTROY HIM E stun won't save him.

Jefftiffy3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pbn3HB2A,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2017-01-16T19:55:51.070+0000)

As someone who's played a lot of Veigar before, I can say like all mages: MOBILE CHAMPS DESTROY HIM E stun won't save him.

I main Veigar. I can still deal with hyper mobile champs its just people like Camille take that to a new level.

As Veigar I can usually deal with Ahri Leblanc Fizz Ekko LeeSin Yasuo Zed Vi Diana Gnar Hecarim and more that have a ton of mobility if my E is up. But the fact that I can't even do anything because Camille can completely disregard an ability and is causing problems in general shows a lot about her state.

The difference between a good Veigar and a bad one is the damage you do. Its how you build and how well you use your stun. I generally prioritize CDR and defense early on because my damage is already really high. And even late game I save 1 slot for a defensive item. You can kill someone all day long, but if you are really good at landing stuns and zoning you should do really well with Veigar because his E is about removing mobility from champs who rely on it.

Ruin Lance4 votes

i don't think she'll ever actually be balanced. her E and R are pretty toxic abilities.

Narasimha3 votes

If you have no mobility there is nothing you can do.

Except, you know, kill her? Most immobile champs have the tools to keep up with her. Unless you mean mages, in which case yes, she will destroy them. Just like Irelia or Xin would.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Except, you know, kill her? Most immobile champs have the tools to keep up with her. Unless you mean mages, in which case yes, she will destroy them. Just like Irelia or Xin would.

80% ban rate in Master+. 70% in Plat+. Win rate hangs at about 55%. I wonder if theirs a problem even considering her specialty. Oh wait she gets a shield for 20% her max hp which more often than not is about 200+ extra hp every 20s.

Narasimha2 votes

Where are you getting your winrate from? Mine says 51%. A very far cry from 55%. Regardless, theres a difference between 'strong' and 'don't like to play against'. Illaoi is still in the top 5 bans, and she hasn't caused any major commotion in a while.

And incidentally, Yasuo has a high banrate too. Or are you really going to claim he's op?

Wizzleboom3 votes

I dunno man, I don't find her that bad. There's much worse, like AP malphite could R/E/Q nuke you before you could react for example. Veigar is a really strong champ in so many ways, but getting jumped on is his weakness

50000000000000002 votes

She is supposed to be oppressive in laning phase but be weaker in teamfights. I'd say the nerfs are hitting her where she needs to be hit. That said, she can start snowballing so easily, so maybe her damage should be hit too.

Frius2 votes

1400 Q true dmg ,balanced.

Oakleaf Ranger2 votes

That's has just been a noticeable weakness of veigar in general when it comes to his E. The delay on it makes its a poor choice against champions who can gap close pretty freely. Camille doesn't even do it the best since she does require walls. Basically it's much better offensive then defensive in my eyes despite it giving the impression of be a highly defensive tool.

Lucifer2 votes

Riot needs to stop overloading kits. You can't give a champion shields, mobility and a fuck ton of damage. You have to pick something. Yasuo has the exact same problem. I'm not even convinced Camille /needs/ a shield to operate properly.

General Esdeath 2 votes

Camille is basically the worst champ Riot ever made (kit wise, her lore is cool and visual design) because she's gonna be either OP or useless. The only way she can be useful if she's nerfed to the ground is trapping the fed enemy, that's it. She can deal so much true damage that I question why Chogath has his ult damage reduced to 1/3 on champs.

ReZisT Lust1 votes

cause it gets increased withitem 3089 item 3001 by alot maybe

General Esdeath 2 votes

And guess what increases Camille's true damage

item 3031 item 3078

ReZisT Lust1 votes

That is true.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Why Infinity Edge? You realize her true damage can't crit, right? So Infinity Edge is increasing her Q damage the exact same ammount like any other 70 ad item. And she doesn't even build it.

And btw: The % of true damage dealt by a champion in an average game is higher for Irelia and Cho'Gath than for Camille.

General Esdeath 1 votes

She relies on an AA reset, getting crits would be great. Pretty sure her true damage can crit but I might be wrong.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

She just gets the AA reset for using Q and that can not crit. There is not really much benefit in building crit on her.

Her Q used to be able to crit on the PBE, they overlooked it. Changed it immediately after people reported it since it was incredibly broken. Her Q is not able to crit, even the tool tip says so now.

Jorencice1 votes

...u want cho to have a point and click 1700 true damage ability on a 30 second CD?

General Esdeath 1 votes

It's not 1700? It's fixed to a flat amount (with ult levels) +70% AP. It's 1000 to all non-champs.

Jorencice1 votes

U said 1/3 less damage.

I assumed you wanted chos true damage to be the flat 1000 base damage.

That could easily be 1700 damage with AP.

General Esdeath 1 votes

No reduced TO not BY. Meaning instead of 1000 it does 300. And 1K flat on champs would be fucking stupid.

Wyrmblade2 votes

She has a similar problem to Lee and Riven, they're just mobile walls of stats that depend on their player to outplay themselves rather than let you outplay them.

Kaioko2 votes

I still have yet to lose against Camille even against the ones that supposedly main her and are Plat+. She has a lot in her kit but I find her to pretty underwhelming if you play a champion that over damages her like Fiora or Darius.

woodvsmurph1 votes

mixed damage makes her shield much weaker -- not that it helps you as veigar, but it is good to know for future. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHFmWppe0YI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46fLNIrYJmc&feature=youtu.be

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