I see Xerath, Ziggs, GP, and Lux got buffs

Eedat·Jul 26, 2017·82 votes·4,152 views

I'm sure it's because they actually needed them

I mean it's definitely NOT to stall out games at Worlds so they aren't 20 minute stomps every game. That would just be silly right? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

85 Comments

PennsJul 26, 201737 votes

oh shiet

so thats why anivia didnt get nerfed hehe

EedatJul 26, 201714 votes

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

ÈvilMortyJul 27, 20172 votes

she did last patch, she lost the vision her wall provided

AzteryzJul 27, 20171 votes

wasnt that a complete overhaul on all abilities in the game giving vision?

Hyrum GraffJul 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

wasnt that a complete overhaul on all abilities in the game giving vision?

Anivia wall, trundle pillar, ivern bush, and maybe one other, I don't remember.

Regardless, it's a significant nerf.

AzteryzJul 28, 20171 votes

its more like a required nerf

champion x knows where you are buy using ability and can follow up easily

champion y uses an ability that does give vision so must either use a ward or risk follow up/face checking

Hyrum GraffJul 28, 20171 votes

I never said the nerf was bad or undeserved. In fact, I think the opposite: Anivia was definitely too strong (sleeper OP), and may still be.

However, the question at hand was/is not "Does Anivia deserves nerfs?", it's "Did Anivia recieve nerfs recently?", and the answer is resoundingly, yes.

ÈvilMortyJul 28, 20171 votes

Yes, but its still a big nerf since now aniva cant wall in a bush to either scout or land her combo on champs in a unwarded bush, its a nerf to utility

deadlychuckJul 26, 201717 votes

It's almost as if riot is regretting reducing the duration of games to an unreasonable point and destroying the quality of their game.

Unfortunately for them, simply buffing the champions which excel in games where stalling is the best strategy for the team doesn't mean that the strategy itself becomes more viable. They need to fix some of the stat, map, and objective designs if they want to fix the problem of 1 sided stomps. The map design seems pretty set in stone though. The only change in 7 years for riot has been a few bush adjustments and the team gates.

TwitchInMyPantsJul 26, 20172 votes

It definitely will at top levels assuming players are proficient and are allowed those champions in good matchups. You're right that only 3 stallers won't change the pacing of worlds, but this will end up stalling some games out longer. It's a good short term change but I feel they can only get a more dynamic pacing back if they do sweeping changes, which I bet are mostly waiting for the pre-season.

deadlychuckJul 27, 20171 votes

I don't think simply changing stallers is sufficient in general. You might be able to stall until 40 minutes, but it's not a viable strategy, because they've now gotten 4-5 dragons up on you and there is physically no way to remove that disadvantage.

Even then, i don't think you'll see many games in non-pro play where these stallers... stall, because other players aren't playing complimentary champions for it, partly because riot has made the early game champions objectively more powerful in many ways, but also because the there are just proportionally fewer. Most champions they've released or reworked have resulted in more powerful early-mid game designs with less powerful late game.

Basically riot has neglected their late game too much for a substantial change to occur without massive changes (and some rollbacks) to the design of many of their systems.

FlameanatorXJul 27, 20171 votes

I somewhat agree with just about everything you're saying, but I think you're significantly overstating the current situation. Especially as regards solo queue. Games are somewhat shorter on average, and more early game champions have higher win and play rates than late game champions. But some late game champions are still good in solo queue, some early are still bad, etc. I'm fairly certain that a relatively small overhaul to multiple underlying gameplay systems/summoner's rift could bring things back into a good early/late game balance; it wouldn't take "massive changes (and some rollbacks)" to rectify the situation.

deadlychuckJul 27, 20171 votes

It would probably take rolling back the dragon changes and changing how some of the stats scale, which would in term mean changing a significant number of the champions who utilize the stats.

So i guess it depends how big it needs to be before it's considered "massive" to you.

DurzakaJul 27, 20171 votes

Plants were added in the jungle in the last few years.

And I would argue that is one of the most significant changes they have made in a while. It makes getting away or chasing so much easier it isnt funny.

deadlychuckJul 27, 20171 votes

Maybe, but even without them. The number of champions with terrain ignoring tools has also gone up, disproportionately higher to the previous average. They've just been trying to cut out their own jungle terrain.

DurzakaJul 27, 20171 votes

Its not just terrain ignoring tools tho.

Because the exploding plants basically end a chase with no chance of catching the target, because it knocks THEM over a wall, and knocks YOU away from them. So even if you had a way to cross the wall you cant catch up.

Thats really what im refering to.

Brownie ElfieJul 26, 201714 votes

Especially that GP buff. Its gonna push right over the edge and make him the best champion in the game obviously

GayFluffyUnicornJul 27, 20172 votes

Yeah somehow riot balance team thinks that GPs problem in toplane is his trading. And that he "trades more with his sword instead barrels". Lul. If you trade with sword you are ded.

CatastrophicJul 27, 20171 votes

Hi, it's me, discount Tobias fate, Actually, Gangplank's Trial By Fire procs can be the deciding point of a trade/all in in the toplane, any good gangplank knows how to manage proccing barrels to reset his passive.

LimrickJul 26, 20178 votes

The others are iffy, but Lux did need some help, she's been bottom of the barrel all season now.

lil kodaJul 27, 20172 votes

no.

LimrickJul 27, 20176 votes

46% winrate all season.

ZedexJul 27, 20171 votes

not terrible but she most certainly needed some lovin.

My Waifu VanillaJul 27, 201711 votes

Thank you for your great insight and analysis on this matter. I have no idea what we would have done without your input on the topic.

ModWulf HelhammerJul 26, 20174 votes

Um. Most LCS games haven't been stomp fests. In fact, just at Rift Rivals, there were a few close to hour long games

Very Hard EngageJul 26, 201728 votes

the statistics say games are one sided > 80% of the time, and comebacks only happen about 1/20 games (5%). ((> 3k gold lead)) (((yay for baron throws)))

if games are long, (which are about 10% of the time in LCS > 32minutes) its strictly a low action low kill count game because everyone is playing passively, the score board is never 35-37.

ModWulf HelhammerJul 26, 20172 votes

Is that general gameplay stats, or specifically esports stats?

Very Hard EngageJul 26, 20175 votes

both.

castors gave in the middle of the 2016 worlds that a 3k gold lead had an 83% win rate. (at that time).

this lead me to do math on my own, looked at a random challenjour players match history, took his latest 20 games played and saw for myself yup, this is exactly what the castors said.

thats when i picked up that turnarounds only happened in about 5% of games and it was (thanks to replay) always on baron.

you could do a more recent prying with op gg if you wanted too if you dont believe me, take any players match history for an example.

then i looked at my own account (gold 3 at the time) and i saw mine was slightly less, a 3k gold lead only secured the win closer to 70% of the time, and turnarounds happened maybe 10% of the time. which is understandable.

rtbf76109271Jul 27, 20172 votes

The higher the level of play, the larger probability a team will win with a given gold lead. So it's true at all levels of play but total throws are far more common at average levels of play

Starcraft243verJul 27, 20173 votes

I think you missed the entire point of this game if you are looking for high kills counts.

This game is about killing structures, not killing your opponents.

If you want a game where you kill opponents, just watch some CS Go, Overwatch ...

Very Hard EngageJul 27, 20173 votes

im well aware of how to properly play league.

the issue at hand is neither team wants to take risks and instead chose to avoid all conflict for fear of snowball from even just a single longsword advantage.

if players are evenly matched, and the game is truly fair for everyone involved, then pros would have no problem with back and forth trades, but thats not the case. since comebacks are so rare and difficult to pull off the pros always favor security over high risk high reward playstyles, (which would sometimes fail to payout, but the potential is there with even more gold denial, ANOTHER turret, or perhaps a baron due to death timer)

Starcraft243verJul 27, 20171 votes

High risk high rewards strategies means you rely on luck rather than skill. When there's 200 000$ involved and you think you are skilled enough to earn them, you dont go full retard and play high risk high reward.

NoblewindJul 27, 20171 votes

You're right but I think it's more they know that and are pointing out the issues of it. The game itself is so unforgiving (proven statistically) that so many potential strategies are kept unviable because a slight gold lead = victory = use the optimal strategy that supports this, i.e. play durable meta picks every time.

In the pros , there aren't hard lane counterpicks in drafts, or pick a late game comp, pick a seige comp, etc and the reason why is because it's too risky and the meta exists in part due to lack of comeback potential, I.e. a certain combination of champs per patch is always best, under almost all circumstances.

In Dota for instance there are many more options strategically, even though there are meta picks. The game promotes both aggressive and non aggressive styles concurrently, and you'll frequently see top pro teams playing different heroes, and different strats entirely.

LleajyJul 27, 20174 votes

Updating everyone's game based on LCS is what has made this game worse and worse. It's boring to watch other people playing. Action or not.

Riot doesn't care about the average players anymore. The community let them do that.

Stars ShaperJul 26, 20173 votes

Ahri Cassiopeia Chogath Ekko Gragas Fizz Kassadin ^ These guys are all ppl that make Artillery mages (especially Xerath) want to kill themselves.

NineTailedMysticJul 26, 20171 votes

Xerath makes me want to kill myself.

idontgiveabotherJul 27, 20173 votes

Well you see if you're an artillery mage you shouldn't be near them in the first place. Positioning is a wonderful thing.

Hello I am BirdJul 27, 20173 votes

Cant see how Cass would make Xerath want to kill himself considering he just kinda out ranges her for most of his abilities and has no mobility

My HeartshakerJul 27, 20173 votes

buffs lux shield adc main support lux ptsd ;-;

ZaneShadowJul 27, 20173 votes

Muhahahahaha!!!! Be afraid, be very afraid!!! Though she only has 44% win rate as support, so this is sort of helpful, considering how hard her skill shot shield is to land both times.

SwiftKitten88Jul 27, 20173 votes

well Ziggs was DEFINITELY needed (although myself i would have kept the ~~current~~ old cool-down and just refunded half it it hit an enemy champion)

Lux .. im not sure really needed the Q change... but she DID need the W change

ZaneShadowJul 27, 20172 votes

I don't know, zigs was deffinitly already strong in solo que. I feel like he might get broken now.

Lux change is perfect, as it doesn't buff her strong mid laning phase but allows her to be relevant in a team fight.

rtbf225618241Jul 27, 20172 votes

You forgot to mention Ekko too i guess..

TseisonJul 27, 20172 votes

Lux is forever getting fuckn buffs I swear! Favouritism at its best. CAN YOU GUYS GO THROUGH THE ROSTER AND START UPDATING CHAMPIONS THAT ACTUALLY NEED IT?!! Holy shit.

(On a side note, Zyras kit needs some fixing or is that still considered "complicated" as it is with her skins)

Killed InactionJul 27, 20174 votes

44-46% win rate this season. Definitely didn't need the buffs, for sure (/s).

I would be surprised if these buffs even got her to 50% win rate.

Zyra win rate average: 48.96%. Lux win rate average: 45.98%. They've got their priorities straight.

abca98Jul 27, 20172 votes

Lux needs to be able to cast her shield while walking. In league of dashes you can't stay in the place for more than 0,25 seconds or they will reach you.

Killed InactionJul 27, 20172 votes

That'd be a better buff than the Q buff, TBH. I feel like Q was in a pretty healthy place anyway, but her W was not great, and hasn't been for a while. Still, the fact that they're doing something about her having one of the lowest win rates in the game is nice. I just hope they don't overdo it and end up making her a perma-ban like Zac is, or Kassadin was.