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PSA: To all Junglers from a Jung/Bot main

Jefftiffy··9 votes·1,484 views

When you enter your allies lanes just because you are the top of the meta right now, you don't fucking tax the every living shit of the lane. Taxing is ok, but taking an entire wave or 20+ minions from your ADC when they are already behind and force shoving the lane loses you the game. It basically takes about 300 g away from your carry. Taking like 80g is ok. But taking the entire wave you might as well have ended the game.

When I jungle I hardly ever tax lanes, in fact I try to just keep them frozen where they are. It nets me a higher win rate and doesn't stack all the gold on myself, but keeps me on level with everyone.

When your carry has less farm than you because you taxed the ever living shit out of every lane shows that you don't know what you are doing. Especially when your carry was doing better than the enemy carry at farming before you got there.

I seriously have a higher win rate not taxing lanes than taxing them. Why? Because it keeps our gold spread out instead of stacking it on a single person and hoping for the single man carry. When your whole team is strong, its much better than having a single fed person.

It legit is one of the things that tilts me so hard in any lane almost as much as when no one follows their lanes making the game essentially 1v3 or 2v5. Its one thing if I'm super ahead, its actually good in that case. But when your lane is breaking even or behind you just don't do it.

This isn't like its something done in bronze. I am seeing this from low plats as I'm starting to enter their MMR. You would think someone at least gold elo would understand simple things like this.

24 Comments

HudnofskiBleh6 votes

Junglers are the kings. They must tax the peasants. You should be glad the junglers even notice your peasant lane. (joking btw)

Shuyin1783 votes

Another PSA : Junglers also need to fucking ping when they are going to be setting setup to gank AND ping when they actually go in for it.

People aren't mind readers, especially without voice coms to tell people.

EbonyBladeJ882 votes

This. There's been more times than I can count when I've been playing top-lane and my JG just comes out of the blue, and then blames me for the failed gank. I try to pay attention to the Mini-map, I really do. But a ping wouldn't hurt sometimes.

Shuyin1781 votes

It's hard to pay attention to the mini-map sometimes when you're against an annoying matchup so you don't get killed by them + keep an eye on minion health to last hit when possible. So looking at the mini-map isn't always an option when you need to focus on what's in front of you.

Xonra1 votes

Backing up a bit as I see my jungler heading towards my lane. Trying to let the enemy push in. Suddenly my jungler flashes in when I'm near at my turret because they weren't paying attention to my or the enemy laner's positioning and almost die. Then they start pinging the shit out of my with ???????? and flame.

I'm sorry that you were impatient as shit cause your red just spawned. I can't read your mind to know what you were going to do there because you have no map awareness as a jungler.

Hethalean3 votes

Honestly, they should help SHOVE the wave, but in a way that gives the laner as much farm as possible. Kill the enemy laner, then shove his wave under tower so the enemy loses a lot of CS. If you NB3 style it (aka take the kill as the jungler, then all the CS), then your laner isn't really ahead at all and if you were trying to restore some balance in the lane, you likely haven't set things right since you took 10 cs.

Xonra1 votes

Kill the enemy laner (Take the kill you didn't need to take), then take the cs, shove the wave, then just walk off not even helping to take the tower.

The joys of junglers right now, as they KNOW they are that strong in game, so they just play selfish now.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Honestly, they should help SHOVE the wave, but in a way that gives the laner as much farm as possible. Kill the enemy laner, then shove his wave under tower so the enemy loses a lot of CS. If you NB3 style it (aka take the kill as the jungler, then all the CS), then your laner isn't really ahead at all and if you were trying to restore some balance in the lane, you likely haven't set things right since you took 10 cs.

I agree with that. That's kind of my point. You are jungle, sure you get the most stuff now, but if you have everything that leaves your team with little to nothing making it all on a single person. And I'm always more scared of 2 fed people than 1 super fed person unless its someone like Akali Katarina Quinn etc.

Golden Tager X3 votes

Junglers are supposed to try and shove if the gank gets a kill, doing that asap and getting the tower will put their adc ahead even if they were behind a bit. Also, if I run all the allied minions into the turret when I take it, I also deny the enemy carry about 20 gold per minion, which means I can actually deny them 200-300 gold as well.

Xonra2 votes

Yes, when you get the kill. Not when the enemy backs up a bit. All that does is lose the laner cs, and the enemy now just farms under tower while you lost all that gold from a bad gank, and you can't farm for a bit because you are likely to be counter ganked soon as you sit up by the enemy turret to farm..

A Basic Island3 votes

where the hell are you getting your math?

6 minions= 300g? so 50g per minion?

lol...

lets pretend a cannon is there

lol 300g? math where?

Jefftiffy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Basic Island,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zhBXNUAw,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-02-17T07:07:28.050+0000)

where the hell are you getting your math?

6 minions= 300g? so 50g per minion?

lol...

lets pretend a cannon is there

lol 300g? math where?

Um then the lane gets pushed to their tower and if you were behind you probably aren't going to be able to farm the next wave without being heavily harassed. C'mon use some logic here man. If you are losing lane jung runs up doesn't kill them takes a wave and then leaves you are stuck there in the same situation you were in before but now closer to their tower. It's okay to push lane to take tower, but when you didn't get a kill if you clear the wave you leave your lane in a pretty shitty spot. That's why its called taxing, you take 1-2 minions and leave because it doesn't fuck over your lane.

TeCoolMage1 votes

If you must shove the wave, start auto attacking the full health caster minions until they're super low and will die to either a relic shield auto or an AoE ability like Ashe W.

notice me Sin pi1 votes

{quoted}

Why? Because it keeps our gold spread out instead of stacking it on a single person and hoping for the single man carry. When your whole team is strong, its much better than having a single fed person.

Supports.

Jefftiffy1 votes

Actually I'm starting to notice a disturbing trend in general. It used to be just mids known for this. Now the junglers are taxing harder, supports are clearing every wave I try to farm, and if top lane TPs they start to farm it too. I'm just sitting her trying to farm and having almost an 80 farm deficit on the enemy laner by the 30 minute mark because of reasons I have 0 control over. Legit it makes me feel like rage quitting the game because its not like its a one time thing. Its starting to happen every game no matter who comes to my lane.

Hell I even ask people to let me farm and what do they do? They laugh at me and continue to do it. It's like c'mon its ranked. I'm the ADC at least give me farm if you are going to take literally every kill. And then they complain when I'm not with them 24/7 because I'm trying to get caught up for half the game.

I have legitmately been so pissed off I have taken my hands off everything and sat there just a few seconds to calm myself down because it honestly feels like you are fighting against your own team instead of working with them.

Xonra1 votes

It honestly just sounds like you are prone to be easily tilted.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

It honestly just sounds like you are prone to be easily tilted.

It's really hard to tilt me. Its just a few things that feel like it makes it so it's essentially an uneven fight all game. When your team takes all your gold they essentially are playing against you for the game. If they don't follow their lanes you are in a losing position for the whole game unless the lane being outnumbered is super ahead.

A Basic Island2 votes

sounds like league isn't the game for you

if top tps in, pushing is the correct play 95% of the time...

MrHaZeYo1 votes

As a mid laner, I hate when Bot laners come to my lane and take waves from me lol.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Newsflash - there are people who hate ADCs in general, particularly Hyper carries that are nothing but gold for the other team until 35 minutes. Gold is more useful on every other role before the ADC has three items. And right now mid game is more important than late.

Taxing might suck but it's honestly just a result of ADC being an archaic role. We don't need ADCs anymore.

NotCounter1 votes

it's okay for the jungler to take the farm if they're going to carry with it, but in general if the player doesn't have plans to invade or gank a lot more it's definitely wiser to give it to the adc

also in my mind if the jungler's adc is still behind after losing most of a wave whereas the enemy adc shouldve lost more in the push to tower, then the game was already "over"

Daizumi1 votes

I think it depends on perspective and people's individual experience. For me, Generally speaking when I play jungle and I get a good gank off, I only push the lane and try to take little CS (As you mentioned) because Idc abotu the gold all I want and need is the EXP and to punish the enemy laner. at the same time however, there are certain scenarios which if I see that my team is unreliable and I feel as though I need to make up for thier shittiness Hell yea imma take more gold so I can carry them out of the game. Im not talking about people who just got ganked and are behind, im talkin about those who can't even lane, who dont know how to wait for a gank or communicate, the ones that just keep fighting and die and go 0/6 in lane. in those situations im sorry but idgaf Imma have to make up for their shittiness or lose. But otherwise, generally you're right, I wouldnt overkill take gold just exp

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I think it depends on perspective and people's individual experience. For me, Generally speaking when I play jungle and I get a good gank off, I only push the lane and try to take little CS (As you mentioned) because Idc abotu the gold all I want and need is the EXP and to punish the enemy laner. at the same time however, there are certain scenarios which if I see that my team is unreliable and I feel as though I need to make up for thier shittiness Hell yea imma take more gold so I can carry them out of the game. Im not talking about people who just got ganked and are behind, im talkin about those who can't even lane, who dont know how to wait for a gank or communicate, the ones that just keep fighting and die and go 0/6 in lane. in those situations im sorry but idgaf Imma have to make up for their shittiness or lose. But otherwise, generally you're right, I wouldnt overkill take gold just exp

I have been having problems of this. I'm like 1/1/1 in lane or some shit. Jungle runs down fucks up gank clears entire wave and leaves. I have 100 CS enemy lane has 70 CS and then it seems like every single person to come to my lane just clears the waves for the rest of the game and I'll go from a 30 CS lead to a 30 CS deficit while my team continues to take every kill leaving me at like 1/3/8 while enemy carry is something like 3/3/6 with a farm advantage. Hell I'll start moving to other lanes just to have the mid/top laner follow me over and kill 75-90% of the creeps leaving me with an even higher deficit. I mean I have even almost fully killed gromp just to have jungler dash in and smite it at like 50 hp.

Daizumi1 votes

That sounds like a mentality a lot of streaming junglers show off / tells their users. Like Nightblue3 who does that all the time in his youtube vids and seemigly carries so people copy that even though its not always best. The issue here is that Nightblue when he does that is playing in a lower division where he can easily 1v9 carry so he doesnt care but in actuality if the jungler is facing people at his level than it could be really bad for his team as you mentioned.

Another example is Trick2g who's shown doing this but teaching people how to 1v9 carry or "Breach the gates" . Those kinds of junglers are people who I wouldn't say don't care about the team but rather they believe that they have to do everything. in those scenario's if you get that kind of jungler I'm not too sur what you can do. Telling him to stop is going to annoy him (for reasons lul), taking his jungle as you said he'll come and smite it and he's essentially taking all the resources. But then when he throws the game he blames his team for being bad when HE'S the one who took so much resources.

for the wave clear issue, the best two pieces of advice I could tell you is the following

  1. Rotations: you can't do this so much in the early stages of the game but rotating to lanes to CS before anyone else gets there can be helpful (even though it does mean you may not be in positon for teamfights so becareful about that.) when hes pushing the wave take the jungle while he's doing it and so on.

  2. Ping him away depending on what kind of jungler he is: When i lane to be honest, I try to rely on the jungler as least as possible (even though its not the optimal strategy. Like when Im secondary mid or top, I don't ask for blues, I don't ping for ganks unless if I REALLY need the help. I try to do everything myself so the jungler can focus elsewhere where help is more so needed. If you're able to do this, then you can steadily grow your advantage instead of having a jungler fuck it up. (i know some junglers don't listen either and in those cases either spam ping him or laugh at him die or something. probably would HAVE to follow up but thats an entirely different case of cancer.

Sidenote: You could also look at it from a different POV. Jungle has the most influence (besides maybe mid) over the map early game. So sometimes (assuming their good) giving them gold early could help because they can spread that advantage all over the map and thus carry the game from that aspect while you control your lane and keep them pre occupied until you snowball.

All that being said, your situation regardless of how you look at it kinda sucks because it prevents YOU from doing your best. I do understand how you feel and suffer from it too which is why I personally dont like getting ganks unless if its needed or I am in bot lane. I hope something I've said can help you out a bit xD

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