@riot repertoir: anything for garen on the horizon?

Critmaster Garen··13 votes·1,162 views

hes plagued by a pretty nasty bug right now, but other than that.

maybe it would be possible to give him a decent fast combo that works off his spin cancel, to improve his effectiveness specifically at higher ratings.

a lot of the good bruisers have some form of auto attack animation cancel combo, that takes a bit of practise for them to learn and deal a lot of damage on short trades.

Renekton for example has his auto attack, w, auto attack, q, auto attack, tiamat active, auto attack, e.

i dont think i need to get into Riven though im not even asking for something as crazy as her burst combo.

if garen was able to cancel his spin earlier, and his q animation wasnt slow as shit into the midgame, he might be able to use

  • auto, q, auto, spin/cancel, auto - to trade more sustained damage by letting the spin run, for more damage on short trades. so there is some decision making involved. this could add a little bit of mastery to his kit without changing the abilities themselves. so no difference for new players whod want to pick him up.

other than that i can only keep asking for the same things ive been asking for probably a year or two.

improvements to the a.i. of villainy, making his q animation speed up with champion level, allow him to w during the q animation. (the fact that he cant w during the slow q is more anoying than it might sound)

23 Comments

redniwediS5 votes

I absolutely love these ideas, and would love to see any one of them make it into the game, but honestly I'd even settle for a small reversion on his old movement speed nerfs.

In patch 5.17 his base movement speed was reduced by 5, and Q speed boost reduced by 5%. These nerfs happened shortly after the addition of Dead Man's Plate, and a few patches later Boots of Swiftness were nerfed which hit Garen indirectly. Garen could use a lot of quality of life changes, as mentioned above, but a small boost to his speed would give him better means to position himself in a world where positioning as an immobile melee means everything.

I Main Swain4 votes

honestly i think that having garen as is is intentional, and while i will say that my being at low elo means things are different for me, i feel like hes balanced as he should be both playing as and against him

NemeBro4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zdl6gBzj,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-11T21:15:00.682+0000)

hes plagued by a pretty nasty bug right now, but other than that.

maybe it would be possible to give him a decent fast combo that works off his spin cancel, to improve his effectiveness specifically at higher ratings.

a lot of the good bruisers have some form of auto attack animation cancel combo, that takes a bit of practise for them to learn and deal a lot of damage on short trades.

Renekton for example has his auto attack, w, auto attack, q, auto attack, tiamat active, auto attack, e.

i dont think i need to get into Riven though im not even asking for something as crazy as her burst combo.

if garen was able to cancel his spin earlier, and his q animation wasnt slow as shit into the midgame, he might be able to use

  • auto, q, auto, spin/cancel, auto - to trade more sustained damage by letting the spin run, for more damage on short trades. so there is some decision making involved. this could add a little bit of mastery to his kit without changing the abilities themselves. so no difference for new players whod want to pick him up.

other than that i can only keep asking for the same things ive been asking for probably a year or two.

improvements to the a.i. of villainy, making his q animation speed up with champion level, allow him to w during the q animation.

Alternatively, they could just give him the rework he needs and remove the Villain mechanic because it is toxic garbage.

Furious Delisha3 votes

Xin Zhao W has a scaling animation time. Would love to see it happen on Garen Q.

woodvsmurph3 votes

You get % damage reduction. You have mundo level sustain. You have an insanely high base damage on your q as well as good scaling. You deal damage to melee's even when cc'd thanks to your e AND shred armor. You get true damage via villain. You have a massive execute that enemies can't itemize against easily because phys/magic/true damage that garen can deal. Auto+q is a good aa reset. I hardly think garen needs a buff to damage or durability. The only flaw he has is the same one volibear, udyr, skarner, etc. have: their gapcloser is running at you really fast. Giving a second aa reset isn't going to fix that.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

You get % damage reduction. You have mundo level sustain. You have an insanely high base damage on your q as well as good scaling. You deal damage to melee's even when cc'd thanks to your e AND shred armor. You get true damage via villain. You have a massive execute that enemies can't itemize against easily because phys/magic/true damage that garen can deal. Auto+q is a good aa reset. I hardly think garen needs a buff to damage or durability. The only flaw he has is the same one volibear, udyr, skarner, etc. have: their gapcloser is running at you really fast. Giving a second aa reset isn't going to fix that.

thats a lot of hyperbole right there.

you can list all his strengths and yet you cant deny that he still cant keep up with most of the other champs you listed.

adding one or two decent auto attack resets to his kit can definitely help him.

like on one hand, people complain that his kit is too simplistic and hes never going to be good if he doesnt get more options in how to approach or play out a fight.

on the other hand theyre stubborn and refuse the idea to add more options to his kit.

reducing the timer on his spin cancel, speeding up his q animation on later levels, would do exactly that without even changing the abilities themselves.

instead of only being able to q/spin on an opponent, hed also have the option of cancelling his spin early to use it for a fast auto attack cancel combo. it would effectively be a different way of using the same ability.

you complain about his armor shred, but forget that it wouldnt even come into effect in this case, since you wouldnt wait to get 4 spin ticks on your opponent. not to mention, that the goddamn armor shred barely ever made a difference in the first place, since cleaver does exactly the same, and the % shreds stack poorly.

on top of that, it would be a buff to his kit that wouldnt even affect lower ratings, as people down there dont tend to utilize animation cancel mechanics like that.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

i also wish people would stop making the blanket statement that garen needs a full kit rework to be as competitive as other champions.

you dont really have evidence to support that, while there is enough evidence that his kit can be improved and mechanical depth added onto it without giving hima full rework.

riot has added different mechanics to micromanage onto garens kit in the past. and every one of them has improved him, his mastery and his competitive viability in its own way.

the isolation damage and armor shred on his spin, and the buff to his w are probably the most notabale changes in that regard.

compared to 3 years ago, hes a much more competitive champion than he used to be. and while hes still on the weak side, i dont think hes far off to being competitive even into the highest levels of play with his current kit. all he needs is some more teaks to get him just a bit further along.

Hammermancer2 votes

make his W and ult auto resets

Critmaster Garen3 votes

[{quoted}](name=T3H UB3RN07,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zdl6gBzj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-11T21:16:46.752+0000)

make his W and ult auto resets

eeeh. possible.

but my thinking here was to add some decision making by tieing an auto attack cancel combo to his spin cancel.

you either get more total damage over the 3 seconds of a full spin, or you get a chunk of damage really fast by activating and immediately cancelling the spin after like 1 or 2 ticks. which could be useful in certain situations where you want to keep your trades a lot shorter than 3 seconds.

this could also make item 3748 a really decent item on garen, as hed have a way to apply multiple on hit procs in short succession not unlike renekton.

Abibyama2 votes

The W auto cancel would improve his trading

I dig it

woodvsmurph2 votes

And while we're at it, we can cut a third off the base and scaling damage on his q - so it falls in line with other bruisers. And remove his passive healing in favor of scaling 2-20 armor and 1-10 mr per second he is in combat. And stop him from spinning and doing damage while he's cc'd like other bruisers have to deal with. Yes, I think that could work.

Hammermancer2 votes

no?

Salamencę2 votes

You act like people actually care about Garen lul

RenownedWheat421 votes

9.18% pickrate across all elos implies that maybe people do

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

garen is a popular character tho. Most people don't main him but there's alot of people who'll just play him once in a while.

Ifneth5 votes

If you don’t care about Garen, then you don’t care about JUSTICE!

Wild Geese2 votes

Love your ideas here. Perfect.

Darkomantis2 votes

Garen is in Masters now. He is fine :^)

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Garen is in Masters now. He is fine :^)

a couple patches ago. right now hes doing rather poorly.

a lot has changed on top lane with this current patch.

and yea. there is also that new bug of him just cancelling his most recent movement command when you cancel the spin, which is really infuriating and just makes him stop in his tracks for no reason.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Then he needs to be reworked into not being a beginner champ; there's no small change that you can ever do that will put Garen on the same level as other champs because he's locked into being a "noob champ." The way people win with him in higher elo is generally more macro than microplay.

He only ever becomes somewhat relevant when his numbers are high enough.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

on another note, im not going to discuss the pros and cons of keeping the villainy passive or replacing it with something else.

but as long as it is there, it should at least work properly and do its job.

at the moment, it just doesnt. which means its targeting mechnism needs improvements to always filter out the carries on the enemy team, and not a support who happened to accidentally steal a kill from his 5/0 vayne or twitch.

Sageace2 votes

No idea if they even fixed the bug where you AA-Q a Teemo shroom and the Q will miss the shroom somehow.

Red Wreckage1 votes

Get Flash on CD Go into bush Hextech Flash on that noob's head AA Q DEMACIAAA!

Drops sword

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