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My problem with the tank meta

Saixos·Apr 10, 2015·4 votes·954 views

I really like that tanks are becoming more common in league. They offer up more strategic options, bring more focus on teamfights, and generally make the game more interesting than a team of squishies.

I like tanks in league. But what I can't stand about the current meta are the raid bosses. Raid bosses are tanky champions who still deal craptons of damage while being very hard to kill. Because of this, multiple people are often needed in order to kill them, and it's difficult to catch them out of position because they can 2v1 or even 3v1 and still come out on top.

Raid bosses aren't fun for me to play against. When Amumu is able to 1v1 Vayne or Kog'maw or Jinx despite having built full tank without even landing his q, then I have a problem. ADCs are supposed to be the ones to take out the tanks while being weak to the squishier bruisers and assassins.

I had a game the other day where a fulltank Volibear 2v1d our ADC with his support right next to him. Heck after he killed both of them he wasn't even at half HP gone.

I love tanks, I love having a solid initiation, I love having a frontline, I love teamfights. I don't like it if they don't need to rely on their team for damage, if I kill both their ADC and their APC then they shouldn't poise a problem.

TL;DR Buff to tanks is great, but has caused many tanks/fighter tanks to become more raid-boss ish, which aren't fun to play against.

25 Comments

BluePolarizerApr 10, 20155 votes

If tanks have no damage then why focus them?

Just ignore them until rest of their team is dead then 1v5.

That is why tanks with zero damage are terribad.

CubedJusticeApr 10, 20151 votes

A lot of tanks just can't be ignored, though. Take Mundo for example. You really can't let Mundo stick to your carry the entire fight, and he's incredibly bulky, and builds no damage.

BluePolarizerApr 10, 20151 votes

he has strong base damage and can afford to build full tank. If Mundo deals 1 damage nobody would even think about focusing him.

CubedJusticeApr 10, 20151 votes

I guess that's true? But I don't see your point.

BluePolarizerApr 10, 20151 votes

My point is that a good tank has strong base damage that allows them to build tank and still be a threat, or strong CC and defensive steroids to force the enemy team to focus them to do anything, are good tanks.

Bad tanks are tanks that are no threat and have weak CC. Look at Aatrox, old Sion, old Maokai, etc.

Ironically, now J4 is much worse in solo queue because he has no defensive steroids and gets blown up if he doesn't build tank, but doesn't have either high base damage or high CC to make up for it. He has incredible AD scaling which encourages a bruiser or assassin build, yet then he's too squishy.

CubedJusticeApr 10, 20151 votes

And you're right again, but I'm not understanding why you're bringing it up in the first place.

insaiyanbaccaApr 10, 20151 votes

well honestly there are two types of tanks if you think about it the actualy tank tanks or the damaging tanks usual actual tanks(for lack of a better term) bring alot of cc to a fight while damaging tanks like mundo they force the enemy team to focus them by being able to deal enough damage to be a problem i personally use amumu with this style so they have to focus me and not my carry

disregardableApr 10, 20154 votes

No no, see, you just have to position better. It doesn't matter if they have 3 different gap closers, 2 knockups, and an execute, you just need to position better. It's your fault.

Shadow GilgameshApr 10, 20154 votes

What tank has 3 gap closers? I need to get them to fight Kalista.

Mr HyddeApr 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shadow Gilgamesh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zdWuyjE9,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-04-10T16:03:57.180+0000)

What tank has 3 gap closers? I need to get them to fight Kalista.

fizz :p

SaixosApr 10, 20152 votes

He has 2 xP

I don't think any tank in the game has 3 gapclosers on his own, but between maokai vi and leona on one team...

Mr HyddeApr 10, 20151 votes

dash, trickster, slow on ult kinda closes the gap, if he is in jung chilling smite, and then bortk. ive even build rightous glory for more chasing just for fun.

People are getting chased down.

Sergeant StephenApr 10, 20154 votes

And why did Voli get that close? If he's kited right he won't even get that close.

OxBakerApr 10, 20153 votes

I fairness, I think you are exaggerating with your example a bit. A properly equipped and played Vayne or Kog will have no problem with tanks. They are designed to handle tanks. The only way they would have a problem is if the tank has really out-leveled them or they just don't know how to build/play their champ but that applies to any matchup.

SaixosApr 10, 20151 votes

Thornmail with resistances and HP cause both kogmaw and vayne to take nearly as much damage themselves as they deal to their enemies. Combine that with base damages and whatever other damage sources the tank has, and it's possible for them to 1v1 those 2. That's the problem, the people who are designed to handle tanks can no longer handle them. That's my chief complaint.

OxBakerApr 10, 20151 votes

Would be a valid argument if BotRK, lifesteal, Last Whisperer, etc didn't exist. That's why I said "properly equipped". There are very effective ways for those ADC's to counterbuild a thornmail.

AFK PushApr 10, 20151 votes

Yeah, the only way that these tanks are "raid-bossing" is that they are ahead of the enemy adc, and probably already have item 3725 item 3075 and grompbuff, meaning that the enemy adc should not be auto attacking this guy at all. They should be aware of this and try to play extra safe, and use their abilities for damage instead etc.

Critmaster GarenApr 10, 20152 votes

there is no tank meta. "tank meta" would imply that tanks are dominant.

they are not even close to being tanky, and still drop in less than 5 seconds to focus fire (ive just recently witnessed, how a full tank voli got blown up like he was nothing. 4000 health and a ton of resistances, and he actually didnt last 2 seconds). its just 2 or 3 tanks that are playable again. and thats only due to the jungle changes. they just jungle a bit faster now and have a chance to get some decent ganks off. thats literally it. if they snowball, theyre going to look tanky by midgame, but in equally strong teams, they still dont get much done. if you pit a fed adc against an equally fed tank, hes still going to cut through the tank like through paper. if the tank gets fed off ganks to bot lane, and the enemy adc and support are behind, then of course the tank will 1v2 them.

NOTHING changed in regards to how strong tanks are. the only changes to the game, that helped them out this far are the jungle changes. there wasnt any other noticable change to the game recently.

the upcoming buff to bruiser and tank items might finally bring them back for real.

[{quoted}](name=The AFK Farmer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zdWuyjE9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-04-10T15:45:09.689+0000)

No no, see, you just have to position better. It doesn't matter if they have 3 different gap closers, 2 knockups, and an execute, you just need to position better. It's your fault

yes it is. you have your own kiting abilities and a support at your side. if between the two of you, a voli manages to run past your team and 1v2 you, you seriously messed something up, and deserve to die.

ErockandrollApr 10, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Saixos Yewark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zdWuyjE9,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-04-10T15:40:22.893+0000)

Raid bosses aren't fun for me to play against. When Amumu is able to 1v1 Vayne or Kog'maw or Jinx despite having built full tank without even landing his q, then I have a problem. ADCs are supposed to be the ones to take out the tanks while being weak to the squishier bruisers and assassins.

Generally speaking, You'll get more mileage out of Defensive item rather than offensive ones. Tanks will likely be able to duel ADC's because of base damage. (and because ADC's have no defenses.) But more specifically. ADC's defenses are kiting. It's pretty obvious that a tank who's main job is to initiate, will have the tools to catch an ADC. The only thing more annoying is the assassin which has the catch potential, and the damage to one shot you.

ADC's are the tank buster, But that shouldn't mean they should Just 1v1 the tank.

Also, don't think of Tanks as mindless initiators, that's supports.

DreadlocksApr 10, 20151 votes

Lol, volibear is a boooooooooooooowsssssssssssss

Only Play DariusApr 10, 20151 votes

Volibear item 3709 item 3075

"Come fuck with me"

redniwediSApr 10, 20151 votes

Tanks are fully based around the idea of taking damage so their team doesn't have to. Since not every tank can have a built in taunt there has to be something about them that makes them dangerous, whether it's heavy amounts of CC or high damage. We've seen tanks with neither of those in the past, and they were literally ignored in team fights.

Basically you have to put up with raid bosses in order for tanks to be viable, at least with their current kits.

SaixosApr 10, 20151 votes

Maybe, or maybe not. For example if the damaging tank items like cinderhulk were changed to rely more on your own team ex. if the burn damage would rely on your teammates being nearby to be significant. Think reverse offensive aegis.

insaiyanbaccaApr 10, 20151 votes

that could be an interesting idea id like to see it put on pbe to see if it works out

pixlh3artApr 22, 20151 votes

I concur. Volibear is an absurd jungler, and his initiation isn't as instant as, say, Malphite or , but the fact that his W scales with health makes him do wayyyy too much damage for how tanky he is, especially with item 3709 . If I'm playing Velkoz , one of the tank-shreddingest mages in the game (Organic Deconstruction OP) with item 3151 and item 3135 , a Volibear shouldn't be able to dive an inhibitor turret with no minions, take my full combo (w-e-q-second proc of w-full ult duration) kill me anyways, and live without summoner 4 ing. I find this especially true when one notes that Velkoz 's E is a knockback and that his Q is a slow. Granted, in this situation, the bear was fed, but still, Velkoz 's full damage plus five or so seconds of turret should at least force his . It's just not fun to throw damage at a brick wall and then watch yourself get killed from 50% HP by one W.

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