"Elo doesn't matter, muh game knowledge xD"

Lucky·Jul 15, 2015·23 votes·2,098 views

You can circlejerk all you want

But if a bronze is using an anecdote as supposed evidence, I will point out that they're bronze, and proceed to disregard anything they say.

66 Comments

Neo CyrusJul 15, 20159 votes

People in this game think that something is magically holding them down in X division and refuse to accept the reality that this game is entirely knowledge based and that includes mechanics. This is not a fighting game with abilities timed to 1 frame, or an FPS game requiring great reflexes, mechanics are not physically restricted in LoL.

If your rank is Wet Toilet Paper 9 after a hundred ranked games, it's not Riot's balance and bad teammates keeping you down, it's your refusal to learn and admit what you think you know is wrong. Your rank is directly proportional to your knowledge and understanding of the game.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

There are outliers, because of how the matchmaking system works. It forces you to lose after a win streak.

Neo CyrusJul 15, 20155 votes

That's a complete myth with no evidence to back it up. A more likely explanation is that if you go on a win streak you're being matched up constantly against slightly higher and higher MMR but you can't see what their MMR is. That and statistically you're likely to lose soon unless you're way better than your MMR. Don't forget that since season 3 win streaks give MMR boosts that a flat Elo system doesn't, so that increases how fast your MMR inflates after a win streak.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

I am aware of how streaks work. Statistically there are always outliers who could just be getting the shit stick in terms of teammates whether they be on tilt, or just bad.

As for the system forcing losses, there is a reason very few people break into high % win rates after several hundred games. Why do you think some people get matched against full plat teams, with silvers/golds on their team. Yes the streak system makes it seem like it should be a fair fight, but the system hasn't been judging the discrepancy between actual MMR and streak boosted MMR which causes huge loss streaks.

Neo CyrusJul 15, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Why do you think some people get matched against full plat teams, with silvers/golds on their team.

Meaningless. If it's a team of Golds and a Silver Vs Plats that means those Plats have ass MMR AND one of the Golds had to be duoing with the Silver. Or it could mean the Golds have extremely high MMR. When I was in Gold 2 I was matched against Plats regularly and had to beat teams of Plats 2s and 1s to get promoted into Plat... but getting into promos was easy, a ton of LP a win, a crumb a loss due to my MMR, so even if I failed I could just keep trying.

Rank isn't always proportional to MMR. But your opponent team's MMR will always be around yours. There is no Illuminati conspiracy to break win streaks. If you go 10 games without a shitter, what are the odds that the 11th won't have one either?... Understand?

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

I've faced plats as silver 1 last season when i was on a short 5+ game win streak. These Plats weren't on long loss streaks or loss streaks at all, while my team were all golds on losing streaks. It didn't really add up.

If you flip a coin there is a 50% chance for either side to be face up. Just because you keep flipping the coin doesn't change the Odds of landing on a different face greater the more one doesn't happen. That is what an Outlier is, It is statistically improbable, but entirely statistically possible.

Dr PoroJul 15, 20151 votes

What you're saying here counters your logic of "but rito forces you to lose after winstreak." If you are on a winstreak and your team is good, you'll probably continue winning. If your team is bad, you will likely lose, ending the winstreak. At this moment, you're all like "but rito wtf I have 5 wins then you intentionally give very bad team omg unfair", while in reality, you could've had such team after 4 wins, but you didn't. You could've gotten that team at 1 win, but you didn't. It just randomly happened to be after 5 wins.

This system will try to give you a 50% winrate as you continue. This doesn't mean that after a 10 winstreak it tries to make you lose 10 times. No, it means that it'll match you with equal MMR enemies and allies after each win/defeat. So after a 10 winstreak, you'll face tougher opponents. If this MMR is where you belong, your future winrate will be around 50%. So after going 10-0 right towards where you belong, you will end like 110-100, still having the same MMR (while probably still climbing a division because of the lag in LP gain compared to MMR).

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

You can track the MMR between your teams using certain sites. Sometimes you get discrepancies of 10 MMR, sometimes 100+ MMR. I think its just a compound of Win streak Boosted MMR and Promotion Boosted MMR. since they specifically match you with harder matches on Promotions.

Neo CyrusJul 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I've faced plats as silver 1 last season when i was on a short 5+ game win streak. These Plats weren't on long loss streaks or loss streaks at all, while my team were all golds on losing streaks. It didn't really add up.

You're not listening, it doesn't matter what their rank is, the enemy team's MMR will be around yours. If you're a Silver 1 facing Plats, that means those Plats have like Gold 4 MMR and you have Gold 4 MMR as a Silver.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

have you ever used Quickfind.Kassad.in When you are in a game, it gives you the average MMR of both teams. Sometimes you have HUGE MMR differences between the teams.

Neo CyrusJul 15, 20152 votes

All those MMR estimates are formulas pulled out of their asses based on how they THINK the MMR system roughly works. How do I know this? Riot has explicitly stated they won't release any formulas regarding how ratings work. op.gg seemed pretty accurate, usually had to be within 10%, last season. This season it's gone down the shitter and is completely worthless, hilariously inaccurate.

That is unless you're talking about normals, they have their own separate MMR system. If I queue up for a norm right now it'll match me with Silvers or Golds... it won't be a good time for anyone.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

you used to be able to extract your MMR from an adobe air logfile. the fact that they only ever estimate the MMR for 'current' games leads me to believe they arn't just BSing the number and they are actually pulling it from some active server data.

Neo CyrusJul 15, 20151 votes

I don't know, I was under the impression that the Riot API doesn't give out any MMR info at all. But it might. I wish a Rioter would comment on it.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

Ya, this is one of the many places that lacks transparency. I can only really go off of my own experiences last season, since i have been doing so poorly at adapting to this season's meta.

They wanted to avoid the individual MMR issue we had back with the 'elo' era for ranked. So i wouldn't be too surprised if they left in a server value for 'team' MMR

But like you said, its all in theory, we dont know anything for absolute fact.

Neo CyrusJul 15, 20151 votes

The thing is, as I said, the MMR estimates of sites are so wildly off that I can't see how any of the info could be coming from Riot. That's why I'm under the impression that Riot's API doesn't give MMR info. The only way it's possible is if there's just something wrong with the sites.

OP.gg this season is a prime example, for Plat+ the estimates are so wildly off that they're actually impossible and make no sense. They even wildly change for no reason or remain locked for extended periods of time.

Currently it estimates me at 1568 and says that's normal for Plat 5 with 70 LP when we know for a fact 1850 is the Plat minimum so if my MMR is "normal" for my rank it has to be over 1850. It estimated me higher when I had 2 less wins, and roughly the same estimate as when my MMR was high enough that my average opponents were Plat 2+.

I'm waiting for the day Rito just allow us to see our own Elo/MMR.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

They wont let us see it anymore, because of 'Ladder anxiety' That is literally their argument for going to this Tier Division system 3 seasons back.

They wanted climbing to feel more meaningful.

Neo CyrusJul 15, 20151 votes

Yeah too bad it ended up having the opposite effect. Ranks can end up being meaningless. I was essentially Plat 2 when I was Gold 1, and now that I'm Plat 5 I'm unsure what the hell my real rating is, I don't even know if it's enough for Plat 5. Brilliant job Rito.

I guess in my original post I should have used MMR instead of "rank".

Edit: That's the end of this, it won't allow nesting any more posts so it looks like I'm replying to myself. That's the post limit, these boards suck, lol.

Dr PoroJul 15, 20151 votes

How many wins do you need to get such unfair teams? I'm at a 13 win streak atm (my ranked score is 13W 0L (plat II)) and my teams have gotten better and better. Maybe this winstreak elo hell only exists in silver?

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

Systems change over seasons. They did adjust MMR spread and match making at the start of this season to add Master Tier. Silver and Gold are really bad when it comes to matchmaking though, even worse at tier change (I and V). You aren't really playing against opponents as much as your team's unjustified egos. I know egos only get worse in plat/diamond/master/challenger but at that point you also have more skill backing up said ego.

You might run into it if your streak takes you to the upper half of Plat 1. Since i mostly experienced it when I neared my gold promo (10 times)

RandomoniumJul 15, 20156 votes

That really is a horrible mentality to have for life. Do you have a degree in political science or history? Guess everyone should disregard your opinion on political topics. We're you a college or pro athlete? Guess you know nothing about sports and we should all ignore you. Have a theology or philosophy background? If not then you better STFU on religious topics. If being an expert at something was a requirement to have a respectful conversation about the topic then the world would be a very silent place.

Instead of judging someone on their rank or skill level, how about you judge them on what they are actually saying. That's what most intelligent adults do. If someone makes a good point who cares what their rank is. A good point is a good point, regardless of who the originator is.

How about you treat people with the same respect you would want to be treated with instead of acting superior because you have a higher rank in a VIDEO GAME. Of all the reasons to disrespect another person that has to be one of the most absurd.

LuckyJul 15, 20154 votes

{quoted}

That really is a horrible mentality to have for life. Do you have a degree in political science or history? Guess everyone should disregard your opinion on political topics. We're you a college or pro athlete? Guess you know nothing about sports and we should all ignore you. Have a theology or philosophy background? If not then you better STFU on religious topics. If being an expert at something was a requirement to have a respectful conversation about the topic then the world would be a very silent place.

Instead of judging someone on their rank or skill level, how about you judge them on what they are actually saying. That's what most intelligent adults do. If someone makes a good point who cares what their rank is. A good point is a good point, regardless of who the originator is.

How about you treat people with the same respect you would want to be treated with instead of acting superior because you have a higher rank in a VIDEO GAME. Of all the reasons to disrespect another person that has to be one of the most absurd.

I love how i can tell you're bronze or silver without even looking

RandomoniumJul 15, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stephanie Stone,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zb8qe8Bi,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2015-07-15T16:57:39.803+0000)

I love how i can tell you're bronze or silver without even looking

I was top ranked in StarCraft when I was a kid like you and I never treated people like you do. You might be a high rank in league but you are Bronze 5 in life. Take your attitude out into the real world and see where it gets you. If you're lucky you'll only wind up in a hospital with a few broken ribs and a black eye.

True masters are humble at what they have mastered. The fact that you have to throw your rank in everyone's face is a clear indicator that not only are you insecure about yourself but that's you've never truly accomplished anything of value in your life.

LuckyJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

I was top ranked in StarCraft when I was a kid like you and I never treated people like you do. You might be a high rank in league but you are Bronze 5 in life. Take your attitude out into the real world and see where it gets you. If you're lucky you'll only wind up in a hospital with a few broken ribs and a black eye.

True masters are humble at what they have mastered. The fact that you have to throw your rank in everyone's face is a clear indicator that not only are you insecure about yourself but that's you've never truly accomplished anything of value in your life.

man i love this board

biggad2001Jul 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Instead of judging someone on their rank or skill level, how about you judge them on what they are actually saying.

Then you realise they only circlejerk or go for textbook theories.

JustMyBassCannonJul 15, 20153 votes

If that's the case, then judge accordingly. It's not that difficult a concept.

biggad2001Jul 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

If that's the case, then judge accordingly. It's not that difficult a concept.

I cba with correcting idiots 24/7. GD already has Jikker, pls.

LaughingMan11Jul 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That really is a horrible mentality to have for life. Do you have a degree in political science or history? Guess everyone should disregard your opinion on political topics. We're you a college or pro athlete? Guess you know nothing about sports and we should all ignore you. Have a theology or philosophy background? If not then you better STFU on religious topics. If being an expert at something was a requirement to have a respectful conversation about the topic then the world would be a very silent place.

Instead of judging someone on their rank or skill level, how about you judge them on what they are actually saying. That's what most intelligent adults do. If someone makes a good point who cares what their rank is. A good point is a good point, regardless of who the originator is.

How about you treat people with the same respect you would want to be treated with instead of acting superior because you have a higher rank in a VIDEO GAME. Of all the reasons to disrespect another person that has to be one of the most absurd.

Some one get this person a cookie.

Reformed DunniJul 15, 20155 votes

You can still know everything about the game and not be good at it, have you ever heard of a game developer being bad at their own game?

To prove my point even further: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3704154&page=1#post40145848

Dr PoroJul 15, 20151 votes

But they don't use anecdotes of their bronze matches to prove their point. If you post a picture of master yi 22/0/8 in bronze V, no one will think "Oh boy, master Yi is OP!" Basically because it's just one game, but also if someone posts a bronze V player with 50W 2L on master yi (and 1W 99L on other champs), still, no one will be thinking "damn Yi OP!" because at bronze V, every champ can do this (when smurfing).

KarlyrJul 15, 20154 votes

Instead of disregarding everything they say, try to have a discussion with them, they might have understood something you didn't.

Understanding of the game is something really vast. Start from the point where you don't know everything and that the bronze guy doesn't know everything (and I'll go as far as to say "knows less than you)

What is telling you that in the vast things that you don't know, what tells you that the little bit that the bronze knows you don't know ?

(Knowing-ception)

EDIT : If you disregarding everything that people at a lower rank than you, you won't learn much when you'll get in high ranks (because there is less and less people higher than you)

s LessThanThreeJul 15, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Instead of disregarding everything they say, try to have a discussion with them, they might have understood something you didn't.

Understanding of the game is something really vast. Start from the point where you don't know everything and that the bronze guy doesn't know everything (and I'll go as far as to say "knows less than you)

What is telling you that in the vast things that you don't know, what tells you that the little bit that the bronze knows you don't know ?

(Knowing-ception)

EDIT : If you disregarding everything that people at a lower rank than you, you won't learn much when you'll get in high ranks (because there is less and less people higher than you)

Last time I talked to a bronze they tried to convince me that flash isn't a good spell and that exhaust heal heal tp and ignite exhaust are much better options for midlaners which is when i stopped talking to bronze

KarlyrJul 15, 20151 votes

I never said that you had to listen to everything they said. I only said to talk with them. Explain them why they are wrong. In the end they might have a good reason to think so. (Yes there will be a good amount of time that they'll be straight out wrong, but you learn sometimes, and these times are important.)

SukishooJul 15, 20151 votes

exhaust heal heal tp

Yeah taking that double heal mid xD

biggad2001Jul 15, 20154 votes

Steph is bronze

XonraJul 15, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stephanie Stone,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zb8qe8Bi,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-15T12:26:54.148+0000)

You can circlejerk all you want

But if a bronze is using an anecdote as supposed evidence, I will point out that they're bronze, and proceed to disregard anything they say.

Funny how you whine about some circle jerk with the premise of "bronze is bad and I think I'm awesome" while starting an obvious circle jerk.

Hypocrite is hypocritical and self important. Nothing new.

sbsp13668Jul 15, 20152 votes

If the person is bronze and is giving advice without explaining the advice, then I think it's ok to disregard the advice based on them being bronze. But, if they explain the advice with sound reasoning, I don't see any issues with taking the advice. Just because they're in bronze, it doesn't mean that they're bad at everything in the game.

ArsamesJul 15, 20152 votes

I completely agree, I don't take bronze/silver/gold idiots and that is what they are; idiots, serious when they ask for nerfs to champs like Zed, Katarina etc.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

There are people who have somewhat decent game knowledge but just cant mechanically play stompy champions. Like, carry bronze/silver games as a standard support. ADCs dont know how to be spoon fed.

ArsamesJul 15, 20152 votes

{quoted}

There are people who have somewhat decent game knowledge but just cant mechanically play stompy champions. Like, carry bronze/silver games as a standard support. ADCs dont know how to be spoon fed.

Mechonix? rofl, you can udyr to diamond pretty easily, what mechonix? don't make excuses.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

You cant 1v5 a game. It takes a team to win a game, it takes one person to lose it.

ArsamesJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You cant 1v5 a game. It takes a team to win a game, it takes one person to lose it.

Stop making excuses, you are not 1v5, you are 5v5, it doesn't matter if your team is garbage, if you are good enough, you can carry from bronze to diamond.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

Its not really an excuse, it is a fact of the game. When people say that you have to single-handedly win your games, they are asking you to 1v5 the game. Yes it takes skill to climb, but what holds people back from reaching their true skill level happens to be more than just being bad at the game. SoloQ forces you into bad habits for a team game. You have to be selfish, and in alot of cases you have to disregard your team. Some people are better team players, which doesn't work in the conflict of power that is SoloQ.

ArsamesJul 15, 20151 votes

No, its not a fact you stupid troll. You say 1v5, do you even know what 1v5 means? 1 vs 5, meaning you play alone, vs 5 players. You don't play 1v5, you play with a team, of very bad players perhaps, but they are still players and you can use their bad plays for your own benefit. If you were good enough, you would climb. The elo you are at, is where you belong, simple as that. Learn to carry, don't depend on your team to carry you.

I can go from Broze 5 to Platinum within 3+- days of spamming games, with only non mechonix intense champerinos like: Tryndamere Udyr Malzahar

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

Your right its not 1v5... that doesn't take into account when a player feeds (intentionally or not) and effectively benefits the enemy team. You cant capitalize on your allies being stupid, you can only capitalize on your enemy being stupid. But when you say 'don't rely on your allies' that means you are saying to ignore them, which makes the game 1v5... You as a single person can not win a game without your allies doing something useful. As a jungle, if your team wont take free kills from a well executed gank, or supports trying to feed their ADC. You cant force an ally to play better, and you cant stop them from making stupid mistakes.

I am not arguing that I am better or worse than where i am. I've had a rough start to the season, and havn't had the time to even play ranked games due to alot of life problems, but i know for a fact that in a team game, the side with the better coordination wins.

ArsamesJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Your right its not 1v5... that doesn't take into account when a player feeds (intentionally or not) and effectively benefits the enemy team. You cant capitalize on your allies being stupid, you can only capitalize on your enemy being stupid. But when you say 'don't rely on your allies' that means you are saying to ignore them, which makes the game 1v5... You as a single person can not win a game without your allies doing something useful. As a jungle, if your team wont take free kills from a well executed gank, or supports trying to feed their ADC. You cant force an ally to play better, and you cant stop them from making stupid mistakes.

I am not arguing that I am better or worse than where i am. I've had a rough start to the season, and havn't had the time to even play ranked games due to alot of life problems, but i know for a fact that in a team game, the side with the better coordination wins.

When your allies are dying in jungle or in a fight like noobs, you can backdoor turrets/inhibs. When your allies die, you can come in and clean up kills. You can use the stupidity of your allies. You just need to play champs that can carry and take all resources/kills for yourself.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

Which is why i said SoloQ generates alot of bad habits. You have to be so selfish and greedy that you starve your team.

ArsamesJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Which is why i said SoloQ generates alot of bad habits. You have to be so selfish and greedy that you starve your team.

These are good traits, when your team mates are double digit IQ noobs who suck at the game, you must take all resources and hard carry, that is how I got diamond.

If you want synergy and team play, go make 5v5 ranked, not solo Q.

Out of all my solo Q games, only 2-3% of the teams were good teams that did proper team play, rest were trash.

RueianJul 15, 20151 votes

Thats because instead of playing against your opponents, in soloQ you are playing against your ally's ego

Valor BotJul 15, 20151 votes

Assuming the enemy team isn't already fed enough to kill you while you go for a clean-up? If your team is severely behind it's unlikely they will have whittled down the enemies enough for a clean-up anyway. Just my two cents.

ArsamesJul 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Assuming the enemy team isn't already fed enough to kill you while you go for a clean-up? If your team is severely behind it's unlikely they will have whittled down the enemies enough for a clean-up anyway. Just my two cents.

Be there when they start to feed, roam and carry, its that easy.