Riot Is Adding All These Highly Requested Things...

Meep Man·Oct 15, 2016·161 votes·5,660 views

Yet people still threaten to quit the game because Plants.

EDIT: I even have a comments section here to prove what I'm talking about. Everything is either "too late", not good enough, not fancy enough, or anything else under the sun. I swear, some people just look for the bad in the world and say "See, boom I was correct!" Why do you go into these situations expecting failure when you should actually go into things looking for how they could be of use or the positive side, looking at the negative side later to see if it outweighs the positive. If you go into everything looking at the negative first, you will likely never get to looking at what is good about it.

146 Comments

MarshbouyOct 15, 201614 votes

Take the "inept" out of your name and put it in front of theirs.

Meep ManOct 15, 201649 votes

Funny story, my name is because a long time ago I was still defending a lot of Riot's decisions so a group of Boards people started to call me a White Knight that never disagrees with Riot. So I changed my name to literally be "Not Good at Rebelling" to spite them.

MarshbouyOct 15, 201616 votes

That's amazing.

ElikainOct 15, 20169 votes

Hey, that's my job now. And i'm not defending Riot per se, i just hate it when people jump at the first negative conclusion regarding a change, without giving a chance to work first. If Riot wants to add something in the game, they are not going to keep it if it can't work. But what's worse is that the community absolutely refuses to work with them and at least meet them half way to help iterate the change to be the best as it can possibly be and if it still doesn't work, it can be removed if we all tried but it just wasn't meant to be.

Like god damn, we want developers to be more transparent and work with us, but we won't work with them. How the hell does that work?

Because if we don't get it our way, then we won't allow anything to change. League is not a community run project. We don't get a say what goes in and out of the game. But our feedback gets us to that point where developers can make sure that we both get what we want. And it's our feedback that's currently inversely affected by the amount of salt we're absorbing.

Too much salt = no good feedback We should at least aim at the balanced levels (and that's being skeptical but still giving it a go and working towards a common goal), to make the game better than it was with joined forces and not with one side being the dominant one.

Dextix LTOct 15, 20162 votes

If Riot wants to add something in the game, they are not going to keep it if it can't work.

DQ, nuff said.

Like god damn, we want developers to be more transparent and work with us, but we won't work with them. How the hell does that work?

How can we work with someone who lies for their own benefit?

Too much salt = no good feedback

Aye, and who made this salt possible? Hello there Riot.

We should at least aim at the balanced levels (and that's being skeptical but still giving it a go and working towards a common goal), to make the game better than it was with joined forces and not with one side being the dominant one.

We can aim at the balance levels once Riot stops being so arrogant and stubborn about their decisions (Bad ones), and once they stop lying (Hello there DQ), and keep their promises (Hello there reworked tribunal). But since they can't.......

ElikainOct 15, 20168 votes

And you're putting all the blame on Riot, not an ounce on yourselves. That's hypocrisy. It takes two parties to have a change that benefits both and you expect Riot to do all the work and you ( plural) just be the deciding vote when and if the change is allowed to be made to their game.

DQ has been in the game for an entire season sure and aren't they reverting it? And i'll even be fair to my original statement in a reply on one of your other comments in this thread and allow you to be skeptical and defensive about it because you (plural) were "let down" before. But i don't believe Riot is going to make that mistake twice.

We can already aim at balance levels that benefit both sides if you just stop being so goddamn defensive about it. It isn't Riot that's arrogant and stubborn, it's you. This is again, hypocrisy. You accuse the other party for whatever bothers you and you use the same attitude to do it - the very thing you condemn them for. Riot isn't pushing you off the cliff, you're threatening to let go if they don't comply with your demands.

As far as being "stubborn" and "arrogant": LEAGUE IS THEIR GAME, THEY ARE THE DEVELOPERS. You have the power of giving feedback and working with the developers to aim for satisfaction at our end and they on theirs. If you shut down and are too arrogant and stubborn to admit you don't have the power to implement the changes yourself, then only Riot get's to have their cake and eat it too.

It's not their fault you chose to pout instead and scream "it's not what we want" every time a change is introduced. If you choose to remain silent and unoooperative - you made your bed and now you're going to have to sleep in it.

Dextix LTOct 15, 20163 votes

What are we to blame for exactly in this? Remember mordekaiser rework? DQ? What did we do wrong then? We said it wont work and those changes should not go through, Malicious metal and other forumers wrote entire essays that were constructive on where the problems were. And Riot gave 0 fucks.

Where were we the ones arrogant or stubborn? When we fuck up as a community, we accept it. We dont keep lying about it. Remember garen or skarner after rework? That was on us. And we accepted it. We did not lie about it, we made those things happen, and we fucked up.

But look at DQ alone. They knew it was a failure, yet still kept it. For an entire season, which is a long time. Furthermore, they lied about it and participated in shady practises just to try to show that DQ was good.

And we give feedback, but the point is that its ignored. Mordekaiser feedback? Ignored. DQ feedback? Ignored. Despite the fact that there were many constructive essays on that. Every time a change is introduced people dont scream (Its not what we want!) They give feedback, even now we have threads that explain why plants are not a good idea, and discussions on that.

We are not silent or uncooperative. We give a lot of feedback. The problem is that the feedback is ignored or Riot straight up says "We know better than you".

ElikainOct 15, 20165 votes

But Riot attempted to do something about the problems with both. Even If Morde was unsuccessful work, Riot identified that minor change won't save him, that he needs a rework. And after him, they started doing a lot more complex and timely VGUs and started focusing on that, on top of giving us Class Updates for champions that require less effort but still right effort.

Riot will get to Morde in due time and when they do, all of the suggestions from the right people (Malicious Metal and others) are going to be put to good use. The thing is that this process of VGUs can't be rushed until the right idea comes along or you get something that is half-assed and needs to re redone again. Obviously, no one wants that to happen. Riot isn't aiming to reiterate one champion multiple times if that's possible.

In terms of DQ, they could have only attempted to fix the issues with role selection, team matchups and whatever underlying systems that supported it. Reverting to SQ in the middle of the season wasn't possible and not because it was hard to program but because it would create chaos and all the standings would have to be wiped and retook, with half the time. Not to mention what turmoil would this bring to pro scene.

They did massively improve those systems but none of them fixed the problem of DQ, which they are planing to revert but leave SQ with all adjustments they made to them.

Riot isn't ignoring us. The whole point is that there's an expectation that Riot must do something with our feedback right here and right now. This just isn't possible. They can't make things out of thin air and even if we have the right idea, it needs to be confirmed with surveys and whatnot.

Jet SettOct 15, 201612 votes

I won't quit the game, but I do genuinely hate the plants, and smite being less impactful because of them is my biggest reason. From what I've heard of the situation, no smite rewards and instead we get plants that appear around 3 minutes. I personally don't feel the jungle needs to even change, and Smite as a summoner spell doesn't feel impactful outside the jungle once late game comes around, the buffs make it feel so much more beneficial especially for junglers who build item 3711

I am open to trying them before judging Plants entirely, but I am very skeptical. I do trust Riot to balance the jungle around these changes when they implement them, it just doesn't feel needed to me.

RainbowIceeOct 15, 20163 votes

The people that are okay with plants are people that generally don't jungle. This is going to limit the junglers even more. Junglers that have vision in their kit and can mostly jungle on their own will be extremely dominant. Some that relied on those buffs early game like tahm kench will just die out in the jungle.

DecritOct 15, 20165 votes

i jungle and i am ok with plants on many ways. fuck me right?

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20165 votes

What is Riot doing that we have requested? Giving us soloQ back certainly doesn't count because they are undoing their own mistake which we have been asking for for an entire year.

Meep ManOct 15, 201639 votes

Well, maybe if you would look around you would see:

Replays
Sandbox Mode
Assassin Update
Updated Support Items
Keystone Improvements

The Blue RajahOct 15, 201642 votes

Don't forget baker pantheon and devil teemo!

Virgin RayOct 15, 20164 votes

i dont care, they still didn't give us starguardian Urgot

TheSingularityOct 15, 20163 votes

Getting the convo started on a potentially game changing addition BEFORE it gets to "we've invested too much to back out, FUCK THE POLICE!"

Better transparency in general

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20164 votes

Many of these things have been requested for over a year...the fact that we are only getting them now is shameful.

Meep ManOct 15, 201626 votes

Getting kind of tired of people giving this excuse every time something is added. It's always "Well, Riot could have done it quicker or better..."

Dextix LTOct 15, 20167 votes

Its not an excuse, its a real consideration. These things were asked for long ago, and there is no reason why they could not have been implemented. Its not an excuse but rather a critisism that Riot works slow as fuck on changes that they do not consider important, while they stubbornly and quickly make the changes they want and refuse to remove them if they fail.

ElikainOct 15, 201612 votes

And maybe they were waiting for the new client because that legacy client just doesn't work for the major features like it should? Ever thought of that?

And since it's going to come out in the pre-season (that's how i understood it), all these new features were long time in the making and that's why Riot is releasing and entire backlog of things we wanted in the first place, so closely together.

Dextix LTOct 15, 20162 votes

Who is making excuses now? Riot has always said that they can't do shit because of the client. And im sorry, but currently, i dont believe them in any way. They have shown that for their own ends they will lie as much as they can. Why would this be any different?

Furthermore, some of these things would not even need an updated client.

ElikainOct 15, 20169 votes

Furthermore, some of these things would not even need an updated client.

How do you know that? Are you working at Riot or are undercover? Why are you telling them what they and can't do in the legacy client? Do you have a background in game development or at least in programming?

One issue about a friend list bug (something that happened rarely when friend list was full) took them two weeks to fix as they needed to find a person with the same requirements and then build their own tools to fix the issue. Just a friend list bug, took two weeks and a lot of people! Under the new client, this issue would have taken at most an hour to fix by one person.

And we're talking about Replays and "Sandbox" mode at the moment, two large systems that need to be integrated into the client. Hell, the legacy client is limited to linking to your default browser or embedding of players into it. Not even basic HTML5 that's basically the standard these days. The most basic features are a nightmare to do in the legacy client.

First comes the client and then the backlog of features we asked for, years back. You are not the one who sets the limits on what's possible and what's not.

Dextix LTOct 15, 20162 votes

I know that, because i can use logic, unlike Riot and its fanboys.

Lets see the features that could have been implemented sooner even with this client.

Updated tribunal, it was promised, and guess what, never delivered.
Keystone improvements (People complained about their imbalance from the very start).
Changes of support items (Again, which was asked for a long time already considering how support is by far, the weakest class in the game.
Sandbox mode. The possibility of ever changing new gamemodes show that Riot can easily manipulate those things, as such sandbox mode could have been implemented, but it was refused at first by Riot because "We don't want players to grind".
Replay system. Does not neceserily need to be in the client itself, it can be outsourced to such places as their own website or even be a separate thing, the only requirement then would need to be connect the systems together.
Lore links from the current 2 sentences to the pages with the respective lores and even pages of champions.

Of course,this will be easier with the new client, but it would have also been possible with the current one, their implementations of certain things this season have shown that.

And yes, i have some experience in programming, and i dont need to work in game development to know about these things, just like i dont need to be a master chef to know that some food is crappily made.

And again, Riot has shown that they will lie for their own benefit, so i really don't trust anything they say until they do it. When they actually implement these features, then everyone can cheer, but until then, all we can do is wait and see.

ElikainOct 15, 20168 votes

The Tribunal could not be updated as their service on their sites was in need of a rework, from the ground up. There was an explanation about this in Ask Riot i believe.
Changes to support items - weren't they iterating them the entire season and the ones before? Again, item reworks and class updates aren't something you do on a whim in the middle of the season. It just upsets things more and more, to which you already complain about on an almost daily basis.
Keystones - were nerfed and brought back accordingly after the pre-season 6 ended and they are slotted for more adjustments in this pre-season since they didn't quite hit the mark (in terms of balance). Again, not something you can change in the middle of the season as they are a key system in how champions do their damage.
Sandbox mode - large system, not under the legacy client - ever. Have you not noticed that we haven't had a new feature in the client for ages? The reason why is that with every major feature under the legacy client, you literally risk breaking everything and having to patch things up and monitor it for months. Would you do a car job that requires a mechanic and proper tools with some duct tape and glue, only having to inspect such a poor job after each ride, hoping the next one isn't going to be your last?
Replay - again, large system, not under the legacy client. There were some experimentations done years ago but it never saw the light of day, aside from some PBE assets or something.
Lore - new client as the pages for champions need to be delivered in HTML5 environment, which is the environment that allows applications to emulate browsers in separate windows (think of Steam and Paladins). Currently, their lore is on Champions' respected sites, which is disconnected from the actual client.

Dextix LTOct 15, 20162 votes

Really? Again, excuses much? When is that rework coming? Will it ever come? And why did they not then say it outright in one of their posts clearly? "Sorry we cant have tribunal for x reason". It is not that hard.
They do not hit the mark. The critisism that they receive most often is the experience distribution on the supports. Yet nothing was being done to fix that. You do not need entire reworks for that or changing items, it is not that big of a deal. Just like buffing or nerfing champions is not a big deal.
Yes, you can balance them out in the middle of the season, just like how you balance out champions in the middle of a season.
Sandbox mode can be made in a way of the featured modes we have now, and those were added. There were many featured modes and new ones added too. Sandbox mode can be made in the same sense. Riot being able to make new featured modes and the like, show that they indeed can create new modes and those that are asked.
System that does not need to be based in the client itself. You can go in other routes, as i stated before.
Again, not a need, you can still make links to the browser pages, it is not that hard, One line of code, and that is all. This would not be a full fix, but it would be far better.

Again, it would be better and easier with the new client, but they had the possibilities to do all of this with the current client, they just simply did not.

ElikainOct 15, 20165 votes

I have no idea why you're so defensive but technical issues aren't excuses. If something doesn't work because there's the lack of support for it, then it doesn't work and won't work until it's fixed. And that thing that needs fixing might not be a priority at that time as there are more pressing matters to attend to - like most of the resources tied to making the new client and then progressively adding features the game lacked.

Once these resources get freed up, then Riot moves them down the list and evaluates new objectives. Honestly, you're literally demanding an explanation for everything - even the most basic things that a company like Riot has to do, to operate as a company.

Supports can't have the experience through easy means. If an item gives EXP (as it did with gold), it was left to be abused by any champion that it fits on (FQC). Supports were given a small compensation through an EXP system by giving a little bit of extra for ward kills and changing the rules of how EXP absorption works. It was a step in the right direction but it wasn't enough and i know because i'm a support main. I still feel how i fall behind even if i do everything right. But they can't just magically give them more EXP or else these systems (if they're not champion specific) can be abused on other champions. So this isn't the right approach.

Changing an entire class or item class is different and carries a bigger risk than balancing one champion as a part of giving him/her a buff or a nerf to some stats . Such big balance feats are left for the pre-season as they carry such turmoil with them. Just remember the Marksmen Rework and you'll understand why it isn't being done when you suggest it should.

Sandbox mode works on an entire different level than RGM queues do. They all work in SR and work under the same rules but Sandbox is made to circumvent all those rules and give you the control over the elements of the flow of the game. Riot did say their version of the Sandbox mode is not going to be this complex from the start.

The Replay system is a feature of the client, it's not going to be a site feature or a standalone program that you run beside League. So, there are no other routes to take if they aren't looking for the alternatives.

As for Lore, they don't want it to be disconnected from the client. Lore will be based in the new client with all the right assets and one link from this client to a browser isn't even called a patch job. It's super easy to do but heavy on the resources as not all machines are able to run intensive applications alongside League. That's why they want to unite everything under one new client, that's even less resource intensive than this one.

The reason why they didn't go for the alternatives is because they didn't want to redo the work when the new client comes up. And since they already began working on it months ago, a lot of resources are going into it and can't be used to make something big, somewhere else.

This is the same argument for making skins for champions slotted for a rework. Why make a skin now, go through all that effort, only to add to the work you already have to do in the future?

Dextix LTOct 15, 20162 votes

Im sorry, but it is Riot, and tribunal operated in a browser. As such there should be no technical problems that last for, how many years now? 2? 3? And these are not details, this is a big feature, especially in the community management, its not basic, and people should know if it is even being worked on,or is it yet another lie.

And yes, items giving exp may not be the right approach,but Riot should do something and notify of what they are planning, this is what transparency is.

And no, balancing out keystones would not be such a high impact thing,currently we have good keystones and bad ones, you can balance out the bad ones, even one keystone at a time if needed, so you would do it reguraly and without any chaos. This is not even near the level of class reworks, not even close.

No, those new gamemodes are different, with different items, rules and interactions even, if their sandbox is not going to be complex from the start, then it could have been done now, because the current client is enough for relatively complex functions that could be allowed to be edited.

Replay system is not even a feature now. And as such it could have been a feature outside of the client easily. It is better to have a feature than to not have it at all, just because of reasons that don't even matter to players. Who cares i replays will be in a browser or in client? What difference does it make? None.

And im sorry, but lore is ALREADY DISCONNECTED FROM THE CLIENT! Unless you want to tell me that 2 sentence bios are "connected lore". It is even hard to find previous lore. People needed threads for that shit! Yea, you need to actually deeply search for old lore!

It would take no resources at all, its just a link, and you wont read lore while playing a game, and the client is not that resource intensive unless you play on an actual toaster. But it would at least help a little, or at least would have helped.

When the new client would come, only 1 of these things would be needed to be redone, and that is gamemodes. The others things could exist easily or be incorporated in the new client with no difficulties.

Riot just chose not to do it.

ElikainOct 15, 20162 votes

Riot chose not to do it because of their reasons. And they don't need to explain each one, if they don't wish to. As such, we aren't entitled to that information but since they want transparency, they chose to share it. You can't expect that everything they plan to do in the future (including R&D stuff) to be disclosed in a document, for our convenience always. There are things going to be missed, there are things that are not going to be discussed at all and there are things that are going to be

Riot has to care about how they implement features into the client and carefully manage how resources of computers are being used. Maybe you don't have that problem but they develop their game for the massive playerbase, with a wide variety of machines. Some people have no problem running everything they want, without a drop of frames in their games while others barely run just League. That's why features are aimed to be client specific.

League has to work on the minimal machines spot on (that's the idea) and still have the graphics that aren't greatly sacrificed for performance. That's delicate work and takes a great deal of time. Sure, League's features can branch out but the problem with it is that all of these features are out of reach for players with minimal specs. If has to be the middle ground in such a case and quite frankly, sometimes is a matter of quality. If they make it into separate features, it may need more upkeep and resources on different sides while if it's made for the client, all the resources at Riot are available to the client.

Same thing was with Dominion and why it got transfered to RGM queue. It doesn't require permanent resources being devoted strictly to it and the cost of its upkeep was being too high for a playerbase that was barely existent, compared to the other queues.

I don't think you understand my explanation of where the Lore currently is. Currently, Riot started releasing full lore of champions on their site and in League's Lore section, there is no room for proper assets to deliver on that fantasy. They can simply copy-paste the text but again, that's really a lazy thing to do and is not even a patch job. This was something they needed to do and they won't have to redo it. HTML5 being a standard in the new client, when you look at the lore in the client, it would be displayed in a window that loads like a browser does right now, without the added cost of actually running a browser. It won't allow you to browse the internet but it will load internet pages linked with cards in the client.

Old lore is not canon anymore and it's being phased out gradually. At least, all the mentions of Summoners and League of Legends as an institution. And it's not hard to find it either, considering that LoL wiki exists for each champion. Even League Judgement entries still exist in the same place.

Dextix LTOct 15, 20162 votes

We will wait till we see those. Until then, they have done nothing besides skins. Im not falling for those lying shits again.

EgyptianOct 15, 20162 votes

well they do have an alpha client in progress getting constantly updated!

Dextix LTOct 15, 20161 votes

And?

EgyptianOct 15, 20162 votes

so clearly they're not lying if there's a live example of these things they talk about !

CrazyDiamôndOct 17, 20161 votes

Hold on, Sandbox mode? Really? <3 I've been away from forums and PBE update notes for a long time

ElikainOct 15, 20163 votes

Why doesn't it count? Because "We asked this way back and you're giving it to us NOW" argument? Ever thought that it was the new client they needed to finally get these features out the door in a working order, that can easily be improved upon in the future?

That's ungrateful. Would you prefer they never delivered at all?

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20163 votes

No, giving us soloQ doesn't count because it was Riot's shitty judgement that saw it go away in the first place. Giving us back something they took away is NOT the same as giving us some new feature, not in the slightest. Stop defending Riot, they are a shit company with 0 interest in pleasing their community. All they've cared about for some time now is $.

ElikainOct 15, 20164 votes

Why did you latch on to Solo queue? What about Replays and "Sandbox" mode? We didn't have these things and we're getting them now.

I never disputed the SQ argument. But you made it seem like just because you're right about one thing, all the other points are implied to be wrong. Screw you for not actually taking the time to properly respond to the question.

I'm not defending Riot, you're intentionally being vague and only mentioning things that drive your point forward, ignoring the rest.

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20161 votes

Sandbox mode, replays, and a bunch of the other things that Riot is adding have been requested for literally years. The fact that they are only getting to them now is shameful. Riot is a huge company with a shitload of money, and 100% of their focus is on this game. It should take them a couple months at most to do most of this shit, seeing as how they have nothing else to worry about. Instead, if they even take our considerations into account, it takes them years to implement them, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if all of this shit we're getting is just appeasement for the clusterfuck that was DQ.

Oh, and one more thing, this is a free-to-play game. Ergo, we do not purchase the game, pay a subscription fee, or anything like that. The entirety of Riot's revenue stream is from micro transactions and selling advertisements. This means that their profits are directly proportional to how many people actually play the game/watch the pro streams, and more importantly, how many people support their company. Their number 1 priority should ALWAYS be to please their fanbase, as that is what will make them more money in the long run. As soon as sandbox mode got so many requests, Riot should have doubled down on it. Instead, they put it off. In short, Riot is a moronic company that has it's priorities so fucked up that they have actually managed to forget that it was us (the players) that brought them out of the muck and brought this game to the number 1 most played online game ever.

ElikainOct 15, 20161 votes

None of these features were possible until the new client arrives. Actually, they were is possible but with much more effort and monitoring that the features don't actually break the client. You simply don't make a building on top of a bad foundation and that's why we're going to get all the features when the new client launches.

And we're probably going to get even more of them in the future, even easier than before. I'd say that we need to prepare for League to evolve a lot during the Season 7 and forward. You might not recognize it in a year.

MonkeyMadnessOct 15, 20161 votes

And how long have people been absolutely bitching for a new client? I rest my case.

ElikainOct 15, 20163 votes

Developing a game takes years. Not to mention rewriting old code under new technology/engine, even if you have an already working game. This isn't just a simple copy-paste job. Unfortunately, some people think it's exactly that.

I still cannot believe that people think Riot can imagine things out of thin air, on a whim. Those are seriously ridiculous expectations that will never be met and you'll always end up disappointed.

MonkeyMadnessOct 16, 20161 votes

But what else does Riot do with their billions of dollars and hundreds (if not thousands) of paid programmers?

OdinakosOct 16, 20161 votes

Like you cant get 9 womans to give birth in 1 month, you cant get more programmers to make a programm quicker. Thought they can help quicken it, at some point you are wasting money to make it just a bit quicker. And last there is a critical point that more programmers means more time because they interfere with each other work.

MonkeyMadnessOct 16, 20161 votes

If you want to defend them, then go right ahead, but you are being incredibly naive. The fact is, people have wanted some of these changes for literally years, and Riot has simply ignored them. Now they are in hardcore appeasement mode because of the clusterfuck that was DQ.

OdinakosOct 16, 20161 votes

First of all, if any of us is naive of how a long scale programming project works, its you sir. There needs to be a great deal of cooperation beween the persons behind the code, as simple changes can wreck the whole project in various unexpected ways. Even at simple tasks, like a simple few hundrend line webpage, can be ruined in seconds by adding an extra couple lines feature that is needed, and then spend hours trying to fix around that because your whole project got the background properties for whatever reason. Yes happened to me. Cant imagine the nightmare of working in large scope project like LoL.

This becomes harder and harder as you update an old program with new features. Either adding or replacing will create a lot of problems, with time spend being multiple of the original creation. Especially if you want to change a major feature (ie LoL client) with an updated language. This is the reason that replays were so delayed, because they had to be implemented into new Client and that takes time. Yeap even years.

Second of all, its some people that needed, not the whole of us. For example voice chat. YEah it sounds cool, but i dont want it for various reasons. Toxicity or having to understand what the heck is that guy saying. Notice my region and that there are a lot of different languages and few of them can speak English quite understandable in a timing matter. I am Greek and in fact i speak English significant slower than i type because of my heavy accent. Or else i am not easy to understand. And splitting the communication in two forms is not better than the current one. Premades can use 3rd party tools if they wish.

Last but not least, i have been critical of whatever i dont like, but always with constructive critisism. Also i feel obliged to explain to people (or defend the company, pick your taste) when they dont understand why some changes are made. Guess what? Preseason is gonna be a mess as always, but those daring changes have an overal positive impact on the game when they mature. I am not gonna go "Argg X is stupid remove it Rito" like most forum complains, but rather "I love the thought behind X, but atm is being too strong, maybe give it less Y?".

MonkeyMadnessOct 16, 20161 votes

Of course there needs to be a great deal of cooperation, but Riot isn't creating a whole new game, and so it shouldn't take them 3 fkin years to update the client.

And as for voice chat, don't even make such statements. Toxicity in Overwatch is substantially less than in League, and there are A LOT more trolls there than I have encountered in LoL. Voice chat reduces toxicity in most cases, as it makes most people feel more responsible for their words than if they just have to type them. Also, it leads to a great deal more coordination and much more last "friendships". I have people on Overwatch that I play with regularly that I've never met in real life. This is simply not the case in LoL, and the reason is because I feel absolutely 0 connection to other players due to the overt lack of real comms.

ElikainOct 16, 20161 votes

No, Riot has employees. Not all of them are programmers. Whatever programmers they put on this project, it's called a team. And a team has to have the right number of members to function properly or else you're paying too much and there's too little work. If you go the other way, there's too much work and too few people on it.

1kk programmers won't finish one program of 1kk lines of code in 1 second. Can 1kk writers make a novel of 1kk sentences in 1 seconds? Can 1kk painters paint a masterpiece of 1kk lines in 1 second?

No, they can't. You can only divide any type of work into sensible parts. Any further than that (further dividing sentences into letters in the example of a novel) can take much more people and amount incredible waste of resources - human and material. You can't write a novel by slapping letters next to each other.

CD Project RED estimated that the Witcher 1, for it's size, could have been made with a team of 15 people and what it actually took them was 100 people and 5 years.

AND

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt was developed over the course of three and a half years, with a total of 240 in-house staff working on it. Majority of the staff were Polish, while 1,500 people were also involved in the game's production globally.

I'm only using Witcher games as examples for you to understand how long it took to develop it and with what team size. League isn't a grand game like Witcher so understandably, it needs less time and people to develop (new client as well) but to be banal about this and say "with more money and more people, this can be done in a week or month" is absurd.

##There's a limit to how much people you can put on a project to be a part of a team and work efficiently. If you pass that limit, you're wasting resources and won't get any work done any faster but the costs would be huge.

MonkeyMadnessOct 16, 20161 votes

You are operating under the faulty assumption that Riot is developing an entire game. They are merely adding updates at this point. Comparing the duration of coding an update to the duration of coding the entirety of Witcher 3 is kind of ridiculous.

ElikainOct 16, 20161 votes

Riot is developing new features, along side of rewriting and fixing/optimizing their old spaghetti code in the new client. Moving away from ADOBE Air to something better means the code has to be rewritten and adapted for the new base, which isn't a copy-paste job.

Bugs will appear and making it stable is a prime concern. This is why Riot works on features of the client, one by one. They could have very well stayed silent and once everything was fixed, the LCU was finally revealed as ready to be shipped. But that would mean all the testing would have to be done internally and not on PBE, which would take even more time to deliver to us.

I don't think logic is faulty, i merely mentioned Witcher games as an example of how long it takes to make a game - and even rewrite it.

MonkeyMadnessOct 16, 20161 votes

Witcher also has a great deal more shit going on than League does. It's a much bigger game, much more graphical power, and I simply cannot imagine that programming League should take nearly as long. I'm not trying to understate the work that Riot has done for this kind of stuff, but a lot of the things they are giving us now simply have NOT been in any kind of development for literally years, so stop acting like Riot is the savior of gaming, they are covering their own asses after the colossal failure of DQ and the hatred it caused toward them.

ElikainOct 16, 20161 votes

LCU started it's alpha testing just a few months ago and if you read surrender at 20, there's steady progress continually being made towards enabling feature after feature. Again, not big enough as the Witcher and it's been a few months already + pre-season is set to be the release date for the new client. We're not getting close to three and a half years any time soon.

Again, no new feature has been in development until the new LCU came around or at least work surrounding the LCU started. I don't have to explain again that you don't build a house on a loose foundation or else you're just asking for trouble. Legacy client is the loose foundation. LCU is the strong foundation. They are fixing the foundation first and then building a house on top of it. We're now getting all of these features because it's possible to develop them faster and deliver them safer.

And covering their own asses? They're rectifying their mistake with DQ by bringing back SQ and are delivering on long lost promises - that's exactly what we wanted. How is this "covering their own asses"? They're giving us exactly what we wanted and we're still asking "where's the catch"? This mistrust is a big mental barrier that people must overcome, not Riot.