"Mages Are Getting Less and Less AP Every Patch"

Meep Man·Nov 28, 2016·177 votes·8,569 views

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117 Comments

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20167 votes

god i love veigar, shame hes too team reliant, and dependent on others playing poorly.

ThefrostyvikingNov 28, 201614 votes

{quoted}

god i love veigar, shame hes too team reliant, and dependent on others playing poorly.

Dunno, he punishes and Average/short range mage quite harshly with that cage of his. As a ahri main i actually struggled a fair bit with veigar's just running up dropping max range cage at me whenever jungle came.

ABlueQuakerNov 28, 20162 votes

Veigar is great right now. The outer wall of Event Horizon is pretty much Twitch's Range during Spray and Pray.

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20165 votes

unless you hit the cage wall, all he has is Q + R which kills nothing. he needs that meteor.

cage down? success! charm him.... you get 2 attempts before his cage is back, you can even just ult right at him and he cant stop you anymore.

i stomp many a veigar, but thats because i used to be a veigar main, i know when hes weak and vulnerable and going to die.

Meep ManNov 28, 201638 votes

You would actually be surprised what a Q+R can kill with good farm these days

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20162 votes

you talking about those 30mr targets? or the ones who built bv/ga?

JunkοNov 28, 201611 votes

As a Veigar main (well after Yasuo), I can confirm that once you finish Rabadon Q+R will kill every non fighter or tank. If you want you can also get Protobelt in case you are clumsy enough to miss your Q.

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20162 votes

as someone who also plays veigar, you kill nothing with just Q + R, ever, at any stage of the game. realistically they counterbuild you, or have some form of mr.

do the math yourself, you are always talking about ganked targets, including meteor, or poked down before hand. you do not 100-0 anyone even with 800ap and going Q -> R alone.

you have to be outrageously fed with a level advantage to do it. (or be dealing true damage)

on average a level 11 target has 1200+ hp, veigar himself squishy has 1212, you deal 230+60% and 250 - 500 +75-150% bonus ap. you need well over 550ap to do it and your target to have 0 mr/health runes and for you to be dealing true damage.

are you telling me you have even more than 550ap at 20minutes? how many kills do you have? if you throw in your targets liable 20% damage reduction from just 15MR, you need over 660AP.

JunkοNov 28, 201613 votes

Q will deal 740 damage with 800 AP, while ult will deal 925 WITHOUT taking R increased damaged for missing health into account. An average ADC has 1900 health at level 18 (even though by level 18 you will go way over 800 AP on Veigar, but w/e), as you can see Q+R will just fall short of killing that ADC, but if you take into account that Q essentially deleted almost half their health, and the really unnecessary TLD proc if you AA after casting ult (which you should, no reason not to) the ADC is dead, magic pen runes and Void Staff make their MR useless against this too.

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20161 votes

theres a reason why you lose more games than win with veigar, its because hes simply a team dependent fighter. he needs be enabled and set up. you can not do it alone like old veigar. you are fundamentally playing him wrong.

JunkοNov 28, 201614 votes

Or maybe I just lose more games than win because I'm a Yasuo OTP so when I pick Veigar it is usually because Yasuo is banned and I can only play Yasuo at a Diamond level? It has nothing to do with Veigar being bad, I'm just not good enough.

But oh well, live with your delusions if you want.

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20161 votes

you're delusional if you think people dont have 42 mr and dont build any health/mr against a veigar.

especially in diamond+.

people know veigar antics and they are well prepared, but i guess it must be a EU thing where they dont counterbuild.

if i were an adc, i would have both merc scim and BV if i saw a veigar on the enemy team.

JunkοNov 28, 20169 votes

You do realize with magic pen runes and masteries + Sorcerer Shoes you take off 31 of their MR? And that's not even counting Void Staff ignoring 35% MR (BEFORE magic pen) if you get it.

Not to mention ADCs cannot afford to counterbuild before they finish their 4th item, if they do they are now useless and you can just pick another target on their team, there will usually be at least 2 more. While mages only have Abyssal to counterbuild, which isn't that great.

TeCoolMageNov 28, 20166 votes

yeah, lux and poke mages can't afford to build abyssal scepter and void staff + mpen boots usually fixes most MR problems except against tanks.

Even then, Veigar's not stun and team reliant, he can build lich bane and use an auto in place of E+W. (around same amount of time taken)

EedatNov 28, 20166 votes

Hold up everyone. The guy with one single ranked game on Veigar last season is now a main and knows better than you all

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20161 votes

heres a better thought, lets all stop talking about it, we all agree to go play 50 games on veigar for experience, then start playing him in ranked and lets see how well we all perform.

no?

you dont want to do some science?

you dont want to find out veigar is a terrible choice and waste that much time?

well then lets call up the veigar mains and see what they have to say about it....

dabox6 - quit, complained the champion is gutter trash.

there goes our only veigar only main who was reasonably ranked.

so that leaves literally no1 to properly comment on veigar. what are we left with? everyone else.

who do poorly

GayFluffyUnicornNov 29, 20162 votes

I can name atleast two high diamond/master player who play veigar pretty well. One as tank veigar the other spirit visage and then full AP.

Very Hard EngageNov 29, 20161 votes

then name them and show me their op gg's so we can pick what what they do.

Starcraft243verNov 29, 20161 votes

I'm d3 with veigar/ww only on EUW.

dunkeroniNov 29, 20161 votes

Confirmed: Season 6 Diamond 3, 130 games as Veigar with 55% win rate. Excellent job, sir.

kile147Nov 28, 20161 votes

I don't see the point of TLD really. It adds burst onto a combo that can already do 100-200% of their health. I prefer DFT because it adds a bonus 10% AP ratio on all of his spells, instead of just his combo. Makes his poke a lot more dangerous.

JunkοNov 28, 20162 votes

I mainly take TLD because flat magic pen is way better than the % magic pen in ferocity tree. Also adds kill pressure earlier in the game. But yeah, DFT is way better late game since you won't need TLD.

dunkeroniNov 29, 20162 votes

Once in a blue moon, when I mistakenly take AD runes with Veigar, I find it fitting to build item 3146 on him. If you haven't tried it as a joke yet, I highly suggest it. It gives a nice 80 AP and 250+30% instantaneous point and click damage to your burst.

That brings the full combo without considering meteor strike to be 730 - 980 + 165% - 240% at level 11 (if CrestKnight's numbers are correct). and it includes a slow. Not to mention since all these numbers are on single target burst damage, you heal for 33% of the damage dealt.

In any case, I think the conversation went off on a tangent that could be easily explained away. If Veigar misses his cage, and therefore can't hit meteor (even though he often can anyway), people might be able to escape his burst. If you miss the Q, then his R no longer 1-shots mages so you might be in trouble. However, if Yasuo dives in and misses his knockup, he ALSO can't instantly murder people. If we're going analyze a mage designed to kill champions by first assuming that he misses two of his basic moves, then what's the point? That's the same as saying a Lee Sin can't use his Q or E in ganks. He won't kill anyone either.

TL;DR If you miss cage and meteor, then it sucks to be you. That doesn't mean Veigar is weak, that just means you fucked up the combo.

Battlecast SonaNov 29, 20161 votes

people that theorycraft like this (Veigar is useless because he misses his W) don't understand the point of theorycrafting. You don't get to assume you hit all your spells/the enemy misses all their spells when you theorycraft...

Baron PerenoldeNov 28, 20162 votes

Q and R alone nukes squishies in just midgame. You're wrong, plain and simple friend.

Very Hard EngageNov 29, 20161 votes

show me dont tell me.

LunarEdge7Nov 29, 20161 votes

Show them, don't just tell them.

MakharyaNov 29, 20161 votes

Maybe an auto to proc thundelord but yes after rabadon (especially with this lovely pene on quinte) you can q-r most people (rune and masteries are not enoug to survive)

S H A Y C 0Nov 28, 20165 votes

did you seriously just say "unless he hits his 1 ability all he has is the rest of his abilities?"

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20162 votes

im so glad you quoted exactly what i said....

but wait. you didn't, instead you stripped everything i said of its meaning substituting pure garbage in its place. his W is worthless without E, and Q and R serves extremely little function.

S H A Y C 0Nov 28, 20167 votes

i was paraphrasing.

Don't hate me because you said something stupid [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20161 votes

sheeple have no concept of how to play veigar, he struggles enough as it is. those that claim to know what they're doing all have negative win rates with veigar and feed relentlessly. show me some 7/0/11 games, but wait, they dont exist, everyone just trades 1v1 and the team capitalizes on the AoE stun.

no1 pops off with veigar, hes just a big ball of stats.

show me a veigar main and his opinion.

LeadedWolfNov 28, 20162 votes

Look up ZeekyNote then edit your comment.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20162 votes

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=zeekynote

this is what i got, and its not impressive, at all. 6 wins 19losses on veigar.

LeadedWolfNov 28, 20162 votes

Reread that, that isn't 6 wins. That's more than that. I play with him and I know for a fact its more than 6. And looking at you hes a better player than you will ever be. Plus you only played him 3 times. And 1 was a bot game lel

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20161 votes

recently*

and the person you are describing sounds like bottom of the barrel pub stomper who you dragged down into you're elo.

neither you or I, can prove hes a veigar god, so whats the point.

LeadedWolfNov 28, 20162 votes

Good point, the only the only thing I can say is Veigar is a good champ and my friend and I can do Veigar better than you. Also I didn't bring him down I just got silver then stopped because I didn't care for ranked same for him. Ranked is full of salty players (Like yourself) who think they are gods at this game and have opinions better than anyone else's.

Guess what, no one does. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Also, say what you please, I've been in arguments with people on here about this game. This community is trash, I just want to try and change it so people can stop saying, "GG EZ" or "My saying is better because I am Gold and you're not." It makes the game less fun.

I actually play the game for fun.. Wooooo... Did I say Fun in League?? No one has fun, only salty attitudes.

Now please learn to enjoy this game, and do us a favor. Calm your tits. Its just a game.

Thank you [slayer-jinx-catface]

S H A Y C 0Nov 28, 20165 votes

sheeple...you just keep embarrassing yourself.

show me a veigar main and his opinion.

Well for starters, if thats the valid opinion..you should never have shared your own.

Veigar 277.0 CS 2.50:1 KDA 8.0 / 6.0 / 7.0 100% 1 Played <------ SUSPECT

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20161 votes

cant play him in ranked anymore since 5.4 guttering, it was super favorable to have veigar against the enemies zero mobility team comp so i did, and it won.

so i play him in normal instead when i feel like it.

S H A Y C 0Nov 28, 20163 votes

Rammus "OK"

A Dizzy LuluNov 28, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Dunno, he punishes and Average/short range mage quite harshly with that cage of his. As a ahri main i actually struggled a fair bit with veigar's just running up dropping max range cage at me whenever jungle came.

Strompest said that he's a bit too team reliant atm. I agree and disagree. With his normal build, he is too team reliant; but you have to improvise and come up with new ways to solo carry. Like me!

ThefrostyvikingNov 29, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Dizzy Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=feAfEEzN,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2016-11-28T23:51:16.388+0000)

Strompest said that he's a bit too team reliant atm. I agree and disagree. With his normal build, he is too team reliant; but you have to improvise and come up with new ways to solo carry. Like me!

I might be wrong bit with 100-120 ap he only needs to hit 2 q's before being able to Q-R for instant kill

Im scared of that little midget and his burst.... im sad to acknowledge that.

Starcraft243verNov 29, 20161 votes

A lux only needs to hit a cage and instant you at this point.

ThefrostyvikingNov 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

A lux only needs to hit a cage and instant you at this point.

Ya but in exchange for it's range it moves like a snail, i found it easier to sneak around hiding in bushes before trying to combo anyone since most people are well aware of what happens if they get hit by the snail. And don't mention the bush creeping as unfair, nearly and mage can kill when doing a surprise jump.

LeadedWolfNov 28, 20162 votes

You don't know how to Veigar.

Very Hard EngageNov 28, 20161 votes

then show me.

lets see some videos of you 1v1ing anything. and then ill show you 50 videos of veigar feeding his butt off.

they all come down to, they ran into the cage wall which they should/could have avoided, or all re support everything i say, that he is team dependent.

LeadedWolfNov 28, 20162 votes

I play Veigar, not as much as my friend. He mains Veigar that's why I play him just to make my friend mad. But it has gotten to the point where people in the game would say, "Fuck you Veigar." Every game 1 person says it, each time. I've gotten a penta by myself from a late game. I would E, W, Q and boom they die. His unlimited stack is what makes him stupidly powerful. Its not hard to play him its just you don't know enough on how to combo with him. Pentas are easy with Veigar. Id show you videos but my computer cant handle the new client and I have nothing to record with, because some people are just poor and cant record everything.