Is Zyra not considered a problem?

Unlucky47·Dec 18, 2016·19 votes·1,832 views

We're talking about a support champion that tops the damage charts every game. Her plants take way too long to kill for non auto attack reliant champions, and take less damage from abilities. I think champion based things like her plants should take MORE damage from abilities considering you're spending mana to attack them. Not to mention how ridiculous she is in teamfights.

I'm not asking for much though just a reduction to her plant health so her early-mid game isn't so overpowering.

15 Comments

An Undead bratDec 18, 201614 votes

Maybe because... SHE IS NOT A SUPPORT CHAMPION, she's only played as one. Compare to Annie Lux Orianna Syndra Veigar Heimerdinger Velkoz when played as supports. Only thing different? Zyra just happened to be considered support mainly, that's why everyone is so surprised by her damage, these other "supports" are just expected to deal lot of it. This issue works otherways too, they say "Zyra mid wtf" and then cry how OP she is when she is able to build full AP and has solo gold. Only because you never see Zyra mid so you never expect the damage, because she's "support". (Btw another thing is only us dedicated mains play her mid, we're highly experienced with her and thus we tend to win the lanes, so if she has high winrate on mid, it may also be statistically misleading.)

Unlucky47Dec 18, 20162 votes

Yes but if she's going to be taken as a support champion building support items, why is 15 to 50 ap enough to burst people when other mages need at least 100? Why are her base damages high enough to burst the shit out of teams in team fights? If she was in line with the other mage supports that would be one thing but she's significantly stronger because she has burst, sustain damage, and hard cc while most of them only have burst and hard cc. Why do her plants take half my health in a few hits because I can't kill them fast enough or get away from them before they proc thunderlords?

And yes I'm aware that zyra mid is a thing because when I first started playing akali she bursted half my health bar under my tower at level 3. A champion should not have the capability to do that so early on.

An Undead bratDec 19, 20163 votes

Wrong.

Lux literally oneshots you with her combo with item 1052 . Happened to me today, so I must know. Vel'Koz's the same, I play him. Brand needs only E and few autos to proctically kill you on lvl 1. The rest is practically the same, if they hit their combo, you die. Syndra, Annie - and with a lot less counterplay.

Speaking abou sustained damage, that's what she excels at. But again, there's Heimer, Syndra and her sphere spamming, Orianna's Q, Taliyah, Swain, Anivia, Karthus - all disruptors and battlemages have it.

And utility on her is great, but what noone telly you is that her E is slow as hell compared to other skillshots and has really long cast time. If she uses it in a wrong time, it's like she was rooted for a period of it and you can just burst her down (depending on her positioning ofc).

Troll for TrumpDec 19, 20162 votes

Here's the thing.

Annie Lux Orianna Syndra Veigar Heimerdinger Velkoz

were also never meant to be supports. The current reaction to Zyra is the same reaction to Brand or Annie, with their dmg being ridiculous, or their kits being obnoxious. They shouldn't be support.

Semi-recently, Karma did that too.

A long time ago, Nidalee support had that issue too.

LankPantsDec 19, 20161 votes

Btw another thing is only us dedicated mains play her mid, we're highly experienced with her and thus we tend to win the lanes, so if she has high winrate on mid, it may also be statistically misleading.

She doesn't currently. Mid Zyra is so bad that even with just dedicated mains playing her she has a 48% win rate.

An Undead bratDec 19, 20161 votes

Lol those people must suck af tbh

I MEAN See Zyra's ok don't nerf

RexSaurDec 18, 20166 votes

Zyra is broken and should be nerfed.

Dominick DestineDec 18, 20164 votes

{quoted}

We're talking about a support champion that tops the damage charts every game.

And also tends to have one of the highest death rates out of all supports.

I see no problem here.

BorblandDec 18, 20163 votes

You know alot of mages that normally are top damage as mid, will have top damage as support too ? It is easy to have top damage as Vel'Koz support, because the lack of AP you have means less damage, but since you have AoE skills and you can hit two persons at a time you can increase your damage like that.

Zyra is no exception, even though she's a bit too strong in the support role currently, but this is due to her amazing combination with Caitlyn, whioch is the true problem currently.

Ryû PagosDec 18, 20163 votes

Reworked Zyra is bullshit, imo. But you're pointing out the early to mid game. Yet, her plants have 1.4HP at level one and we don't max them before we are level 10. So an AA and a minion AA will kill it in the early to midgame (or an adc and a support AA). As the others said, she was designed to be a mage, not a support. Annie's damage are absurd too, for instance, or Karma who has higher ratios and base damage than Zyra. But I actually believe Zyra should be mid, and not support. And to prevent Zyra bot to be such a bully in bottom lane, I believe she should have her base damage decreased and her AP ratio **slightly ** increased from rank 3 to 5, so Zyra midlane doesn't get hurt too much (especially since Rylei got "buffed" as far as Zyra is concerned - as it now is cheaper, bringing her power spike earlier). This way, she would become a zoning mage-support with decent damage and peeling potential (the latter being the most important for Riot I believe, and for Zyra support players on top of that). But considering her plants had 6HP (3 bars of HP so 3 AA) at all levels PRE REWORK and now only 1.4HP up to level 8, I don't believe the issue comes from the HP but more from her passive. It's frustrating for us Zyra players not to control where she's gonna set her garden up, trust me, but I assume it's also frustrating for the ennemy botlane to get flood by her carnivorous plants. In the end, you end up fighting maybe 3-4 plants, so 4.2HP - 5.6HP spread, which is, imo, the problem right now in bottom lane. Finally, don't give her the opportunity to be too proactive, act first to take her by surprise and make sure she's limited in seeds (keeping in mind to dodge her root in order to avoid most of her killing potential). As Dominick Destine said, she tends to die A LOT. See her as a pack of gold who should go back in midlane (let's dream about it...).

chipndip1Dec 19, 20162 votes

I'll say it until I'm blue in the face: As long as there's no ap support items that fit her play style, she's going to have all her damage potential frontloaded into her base kit, rather than potential scaling. There is no fixing it without dumpstering her again, and Riot would rather have her "strong" than "useless again".

RogueWillDec 19, 20162 votes

Play Sion and just return her plants to her. 500 units away from you they do jackshit xD

The TrentDec 19, 20162 votes

I personally think the Zyra rework was a huge fail. Made me give up the champion. It changed too much and I can't enjoy her anymore. Poke is harder to land, my plants seem useless, I hate the new passive. I really want old Zyra back. Now she's just really annoying to play against ):