Maokai needs some damage nerfs holy shit

Unlucky47·Feb 5, 2017·55 votes·3,426 views

I'm fine with his kit. I'm not fine with the fact that he destroys my health bar while building tank.

90 Comments

MannnyFeb 5, 201727 votes

You are either 1 of the 2 things that are supposed to get hurt by tanks

ADC that builds full damage and not a single defensive item
AFK that just came back after 15 minutes and under leveled

In all seriousness, if he manages to land a full combo on you it's going to hurt. He needs at least some damage to be relevant.

ParoeFeb 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You are either 1 of the 2 things that are supposed to get hurt by tanks

ADC that builds full damage and not a single defensive item

AFK that just came back after 15 minutes and under leveled

In all seriousness, if he manages to land a full combo on you it's going to hurt. He needs at least some damage to be relevant.

Every champion deserves a laning phase. Maokai also isnt a tank - hes a bruiser. An AP bruiser.

Its a pretty big misconception most people have regarding tanks because anyone can BUILD tank items and call themselves a tank - but few champions actually have synergies and true tanks arent meta because they dont have a good laning phase.

The Lost MarblesFeb 5, 201727 votes

{quoted}

Every champion deserves a laning phase. Maokai also isnt a tank - hes a bruiser. An AP bruiser.

Its a pretty big misconception most people have regarding tanks because anyone can BUILD tank items and call themselves a tank - but few champions actually have synergies and true tanks arent meta because they dont have a good laning phase.

Rumble's an AP bruiser. Maokai's a tank.

Maokai might have been an AP bruiser at one point, but he's very clearly a tank these days.

ParoeFeb 5, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Rumble's an AP bruiser. Maokai's a tank.

Maokai might have been an AP bruiser at one point, but he's very clearly a tank these days.

His kit reflects an AP bruiser, not a tank. Tanks have resistance scaling or health increasing passives.

Maokai has an ult that is very clearly "i am a bruiser.". Only reason full tank works at all is because he has WQ CC chain, and good bases on his E.

Irelia BotFeb 5, 201717 votes

20% damage reduction on ult

He is a tank

INoble KnightIFeb 5, 20173 votes

By your Logic Jax is a tank.

Photos of GhostsFeb 5, 20174 votes

I mean, Jax kinda ranges through the whole fighter spectrum, from Skirmisher to Tank ends.

sit kidFeb 5, 20174 votes

Maokai buys no damage items

Jax does. That's a difference

EndlessSorcererFeb 5, 20175 votes

Actually. it doesn't.

Mundo and Volibear don't buy offensive items but they are still fighters (juggernauts).

sit kidFeb 5, 20174 votes

They also a lot more damage at the cost of very little mobility and little CC

Maokai has a gap closer and alot of CC as well and little damage compared to mundo and voli

Mundo and Volibear are still tanks to a certain degree because they still get tanky as fuck, but they just lack the mobility and CC actual tanks have

YumaS2AstralFeb 5, 20172 votes

What makes Maokai a tank is the fact that he has CC and utility

Irelia BotFeb 5, 201715 votes

And yet jax gets the tank stats by building damage.

AquafugeFeb 5, 20171 votes

don't forget his passive scales with his hp

Irelia BotFeb 6, 20171 votes

True

ChaoticPineconeFeb 5, 20173 votes

{quoted} Tanks have resistance scaling or health increasing passives.

Just because its not as clear-cut-and-dry doesnt mean it doesnt exist.

Maokai might not have an HP increase in his kit, but in a fight he does - its his passive. Since he heals for 7% max health every 5 spells cast around him, his effective health pool is larger than the one he shows. In a fight, doesnt having 4000 health mean almost the same has having 3000 but healing for 1000?

Maokai might not have resistance scaling in his kit, but his Ult acts as pseudo-resistance scaling - it reduces incoming damage by 20%. Isnt that what Armor and MR kinda do?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20172 votes

actually his passive is scaling starting at 5% then 6% and then 7% they made this change a long time ago to him to make him weaker in the early lane phase of games... also they nerfed his CD on his Q making it longer so he cant spam it as much and i think they might of change the mana cost making it more too ...

ChaoticPineconeFeb 5, 20172 votes

While true points, my point still stands.

Although Maokai might not have an HP increase in his kit, he still gets a substantial amount of in-combat heals that can match the shields/HP increases other tanks have.

5000000000000000Feb 5, 20171 votes

Maokai ultimate gives damage reduction, which is better with high armor/MR than low armor/MR, in terms of gold value.

Mecha MaIphiteFeb 5, 20176 votes

He has tons of CC, good sustain, and damage reduction. How is that not a tank?

3TWarriorFeb 5, 20174 votes

add to that that he is the first to engage in a fight and it clearly screams tank, lol

ThefrostyvikingFeb 5, 20173 votes

According to current class categories Rumble is a battle mage, meaning mage that works either in melee range or very short ranged.

And Maokai is a warden which is a peel tank, altho i belive that he is somewhere between warden and vanguard.

dunder killFeb 5, 201715 votes

Maokai also isnt a tank - hes a bruiser. An AP bruiser.

Nope. He's a tank.

ParoeFeb 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Nope. He's a tank.

Im sure renekton is a tank too, right? And Jarvan?

The Lost MarblesFeb 5, 20179 votes

{quoted}

Im sure renekton is a tank too, right? And Jarvan?

Jarvan actually is considered a tank by the game, though I've never been entirely sure why when Rek'Sai is listed as a fighter.

At any rate, those are outdated classifications. Maokai is what they now call a Vanguard, which is basically a fancy term for "tanky initiator".

He has too much CC to be considered anything BUT a tank, even if he has AP ratios.

Nautilus has AP ratios and a bruiser-esque kit, is he not a tank either?

Wet DrymanFeb 5, 20175 votes

Actually Maokai is Warden - defensive, peel tank. His initiation is poor comparing it to other Vanguards and unlike them he provides buff for his teammates (ult). But one way or another he was always considered Tank with AP Bruiser being his secondary, viable role.

Sire HippingtonFeb 5, 20172 votes

Not really, the main reason mao is usually top priority once tanks are in meta is that he works as both, vanguard and warden. A ranged point n click lockdown that makes you untargetable is a pretty strong engage tool, especially if paired with mobillity tools like flash or Rigtheous Glory.

Troll for TrumpFeb 5, 20171 votes

They're updating him in the diver class update, so if diver becomes a class, he's a tank vanguard warden diver.

Basically, a flexible tank

3TWarriorFeb 5, 20171 votes

"target all of your attacks on the adaptoid!" "it can't adapt to fight all of us at once!"

5000000000000000Feb 5, 20171 votes

The class update is for Vanguards.

Wet DrymanFeb 5, 20172 votes

Actually it's for whole Tank class with Vanguards as priority. It will have size similar to Mage Update (but since they focus on Vanguards it may be a little smaller) and Maokai is hinted to be reworked there.

GayFluffyUnicornFeb 5, 20176 votes

Maokai is the definition of a tank. MEatshield, lockdown potential, dmg reduction for his team. Self heal.

Asayake 5150glowFeb 5, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Im sure renekton is a tank too, right? And Jarvan?

Guys this is sarcasm, why the downvotes.

Chembaron YamadaFeb 5, 20171 votes

Because his sarcasm is inappropriate. He was making the point that Maokai isn't a tank, which he clearly is. He is combining elements of the warden and vanguard subclasses, which both are subclasses of tanks.

When someone was correcting him that he is misinformed there, he was replying with sarcasm saying "then Renekton and Jarvan are tanks too".

They are not tanks, they are fighters. Divers to be more precise. Their kits and playstyles are nowhere near that of Maokai. It just makes him look cocky if he uses sarcasm while he is just hugely misinformed and didn't want to admit that he lacks knowledge.

Unlucky47Feb 5, 20171 votes

Some damage doesn't equate to 2/3 of my health while I have abyssal and being unkillable because of his ultimate.

MannnyFeb 5, 20171 votes

If you have abyssal, he won't do that much damage unless he has ap items. Don't lie to people and spread false information.

UnboundCreatorFeb 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You are either 1 of the 2 things that are supposed to get hurt by tanks

ADC that builds full damage and not a single defensive item

AFK that just came back after 15 minutes and under leveled

In all seriousness, if he manages to land a full combo on you it's going to hurt. He needs at least some damage to be relevant.

except maokai has a ton of cc and AOE damage reduction. He should NOT have that much damage

Sire HippingtonFeb 5, 20178 votes

If mao goes fulltank and 'destroys your health bar', then you either were quite a bit behind or a squishy without any defenseive items. Tanks are supposed to deal damge vs squishys if they get to them, but their damage usually is easly coutered with lifesteal or some resistances as they lack dps and won't get %pen, and their damage isn't high enough to outroight burst you on their own.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20177 votes

LOL HOLD UP WAIT....

YOU CRYING OVER THE BALANCE OF MAOKAI FROM AN ARAM GAME?

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

VerdadeFeb 5, 20171 votes

oh sheet, ARAM players talking about balance. AGAIN....

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 5, 20171 votes

yea where maokai in a aram game did 60k damage and the OP lux did 112k damage to champs

but mao is the issue here lol

Unlucky47Feb 6, 20172 votes

I've talked about lux before but I'm not going to bring up multiple champions in one thread. And it's not like damage gets changed around because it's aram. It's the same exact bullshit on summoners rift where maokai never dies and walks through teams chunking people.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoFeb 6, 20172 votes

he did half the damage you did ...

which would make sense you went full damage and he went sustain and tank ...

part of what allows him to do damage is the fact it takes so long to kill him... therefore he is able to deal more damage through extended engages and long fights... if you read my original comment on this thread i explained all of this and maokai , its about 4 comments below this one.

DunkinNoobsFeb 5, 20175 votes

Mao has decently high base damage for a tank, and the fact that it's magic damage makes neglecting resistances against him more painful than usual. But like any tank, just a little bit of defense is going to make his damage drop off a cliff.

ChaoticPineconeFeb 5, 20174 votes

You act as if this is unique to Maokai. Take a full combo from any tank as a squishy and youll see your health bar disappear.

TheFallenShawFeb 5, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You act as if this is unique to Maokai. Take a full combo from any tank as a squishy and youll see your health bar disappear.

not rammus though....

LongHair FoxFeb 5, 20172 votes

rammus ult does 1600 damage... your argument is invalid

TheFallenShawFeb 5, 20171 votes

correction 195 at max per second for 8 seconds actually. which adds up to 1560 if target sticks around. Per second isnt the same as instant. He gets killed far more than he is effective. Maybe its bc rammus players are useually vunerable to cc and ap. but hey your a one sided thoughts are that of a fan boy. you prob see rammus wearing a cape with an S on his chest.

LongHair FoxFeb 5, 20171 votes

wow.... was just a joke comment and you went full ham on me. Well if we are tackling technicalities he could have build ap, and no I don't play rammus or see him as anything special.

AnidanFeb 6, 20171 votes

Actually if we gonna full ham argument it would depend on who Rammus is engaging. An ADC? Thornmail + W, with its armor scaling, will do a lot to counter the effectiveness of their lifesteal, before factoring in his ult, AAs (slow though they may be) and his spindash.

Rammus isn't a high damage tank, but to try and argue that he doesn't do enough to threaten a squishy, I don't even know what to tell you. His potential damage on a particular target he happens to hate that day is higher than, say, Leona.

But then again, you happened to see "rammus ult does 1600 damage... your argument is invalid." and managed to both take it completely seriously, and somehow take it as if he was being a fanboy for Rammus there, so I don't know what to actually think about you.