"We dont balance the game around lcs and worlds"
5.18 Patch no vayne nerfs! No btrk Nerfs
"No guys we dont trust us"-rito
5.18 Patch no vayne nerfs! No btrk Nerfs
"No guys we dont trust us"-rito
Riot admits they balance the game around the LCS/Worlds and will say the exact opposite later on. Azir is always nerfed due to the LCS despite him being not that great in solo queue, Evelynn almost received another nerf because of the LCS, Lee Sin hasn't been top tier in a month so he got a big buff or two.
[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUr8EQWk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-15T10:33:33.248+0000)
Riot admits they balance the game around the LCS/Worlds and will say the exact opposite later on. Azir is always nerfed due to the LCS despite him being not that great in solo queue, Evelynn almost received another nerf because of the LCS, Lee Sin hasn't been top tier in a month so he got a big buff or two.
Let's not forget the poor shen, which i saw max 2 times in 100 games while he was constantly picked at LCS... Nerfed.
To be fair, his Q sustain was pretty crazy. I was playing Singed once and he could just practically ignore my poison and get health off his Q until he bought Spectre's Cowl, at which point my poison started healing him.
Was I the only one that found it a weird nerf? Most of shen's sustain is Q'ing something then autoing, unless I didn't read it right the only thing that was touched was sustain when using Q to last hit.
Oh yeah, look at that. Maybe this is Rito experimenting to see if further nerfs are needed. Which is honestly what the Pbe is for but whatever.
I don't even think Shen needed nerfs? He's only good because of his teamfighting/global presence, in other aspects like damage, CC, mobility, and raw tankiness, he's just outclassed. Shen is one of those champions I can confidently say is balanced since he has obvious strengths and weaknesses that unlike most champions now a-days (Yasuo, Vayne, Kalista) don't have their own kits negate their own weaknesses and the weaknesses he does have are very exploitable.
No, Shen definitely needed the small nerf he got. When using Q to last hit, he was healing for far too much for the safety of that ability. If he wants to heal for more, using Q and then attacking is how it SHOULD be done. It was a risk/reward nerf that affected all levels of play, not just LCS.
[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUr8EQWk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-15T10:33:33.248+0000)
Riot admits they balance the game around the LCS/Worlds and will say the exact opposite later on. Azir is always nerfed due to the LCS despite him being not that great in solo queue, Evelynn almost received another nerf because of the LCS, Lee Sin hasn't been top tier in a month so he got a big buff or two.
No, they openly admit that this patch was specifically intended to address worlds and competitive play. Saying that they did something, does not mean that is their GENERAL approach.
They would be stupid not to patch specifically for worlds. But it does not mean that they do it on the regular.
This, I expect Vayne to get gutted after worlds.
after worlds there's the preseason and they said they're going to do an ADC item pass, similar to the AP and more recently, bruiser/juggernaut/something. they might even go with some slight reworks (they said "maybe miss fortune buffs" somewhere)
Their stance on Vayne has been clear: She hasn't received changes lately, and thus the actual cause of her rise to power is likely the over nerfing of her counters.
This has apparently amounted to buffs to Caitlyn's traps. I desperately want more changes :(
She has received a buff recently, abet an indirect one. BotRK was buffed to vamp off its own damage. That's a fair sized buff to Vayne.
Wait why does a patch have to be very balanced for Worlds? Shouldn't it be like that all of the time?
The patch right before worlds has to be relatively small in terms of changes, because it would be unfair if the patch right before worlds threw the entire meta out the window, and Worlds became a game of "Who can figure out what's the most overpowered in a month"
I don't think they pretend like the worlds patches are more balanced, just that they're the most similar to the previous patch.
[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUr8EQWk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-15T10:33:33.248+0000)
Riot admits they balance the game around the LCS/Worlds and will say the exact opposite later on. Azir is always nerfed due to the LCS despite him being not that great in solo queue, Evelynn almost received another nerf because of the LCS, Lee Sin hasn't been top tier in a month so he got a big buff or two.
same with lulu as lulu is majority of time played in solo lane in lcs
[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zUr8EQWk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-09-15T10:33:33.248+0000)
Riot admits they balance the game around the LCS/Worlds and will say the exact opposite later on. Azir is always nerfed due to the LCS despite him being not that great in solo queue, Evelynn almost received another nerf because of the LCS, Lee Sin hasn't been top tier in a month so he got a big buff or two.
They said that they balance the game around Plat+ game play, which happens to include LCS/Worlds level play.
iirc anyway.
"Quote without link"
Cite your evidence so I can agree or disagree with you accurately.
Why is this guy being downvoted? Is the boards circlejerk that strong today? It's always smart to cite your sources, as it strengthens your argument.
Also Janna and Braum nerfs while Thresh still goes unchecked. Don't want dem uninteractive antifun defensive supports blocking out big plays now.
The braum nerfs were because he was buffed before that and the buff helped him more than expected.
At least Riot is consistent on not wanting uninteractive champions. But I always found a good janna Q more exciting than a Thresh hook, especially if they predict and stop someone mid dash.
Also Janna and Braum nerfs while Thresh still goes unchecked. Don't want dem uninteractive antifun defensive supports blocking out big plays now.
Janna and Braum have a lot of playmaking potential and they deserved a nerf. Thresh needs one too but don't act like the other two didn't need them.
They specifically said they were balancing this next patch for worlds.
What the fuck are you on about?
Nerfed Eve Removed boring* tank meta (in Riots eyes) Buffed grasshopper Lee Left Vayne as is Left Devourser as is, just in case of sick Yi/Shyvana/Vayne plays Left Thresh as is
I'm sorry, but that is obvious LCS ""balancing""
Because in my eyes too, tank meta is boring... you sit there in laning phase and wait for the guy to make 5 or more mistakes before you kill them, meanwhile make one mistake and you get grey screened. Devourer is getting nerfed by 1/3 of its scaling each stack is now worth .66666666666666666666666667 magic damage, approximately, i forget the actual number from S@20 but i think it has more sixes... its meant to be a third, so it's lost 10 magic damage overall which is a lot but a little, over 2 hits its gone down for 180 max to 150 max.
Tank meta also didn't favour the way of how i play (mages/teemo), but I do believe it was healthier than
2s teamfight ending with ace. Like.. I just closed my eyes for half a second and team X just won a teamfight, destroyed 2 turrets and now beats inhibitor.
Hmm fair point
Plus it made basically everyone viable, instead of assassin meta where even assassins where being supports.
Assassins were stil viable, only that they didnt get to kill their counters or easy double/triple kills.
oh and also lee sin buffs >_>
Even in patch breakdowns they talk about soing small patches for worlds and why they realise champions after worlds when they can earlier the that
A tank buster champ with next to no buffs to her kit. Is suddenly being noticed?
And a weapon that has been in the game for a while Blade of the Ruin King is being blade as well?
Wow players still saying we aren't in a tankie meta with the loads of Juggernaut/Melee/Fighter/Bruiser champs being played?
Maybe after Vayne is nerfed they will go after Kog.
Or Maybe the stupid Tank Meta is still here and nothing has been fixed about all tanks/Juggernaut/Melee/Fighter/Bruiser or whatever the F... you want to call them.
A tank buster champ with next to no buffs to her kit. Is suddenly being noticed?
And a weapon that has been in the game for a while Blade of the Ruin King is being blade as well?
Wow players still saying we aren't in a tankie meta with the loads of Juggernaut/Melee/Fighter/Bruiser champs being played?
Maybe after Vayne is nerfed they will go after Kog.
Or Maybe the stupid Tank Meta is still here and nothing has been fixed about all tanks/Juggernaut/Melee/Fighter/Bruiser or whatever the F... you want to call them.
tanky meta is not the same as a tank meta. Actual tanks aren't used much in the current meta.
They don't for most of the year.
However, they do when the time for the LCS comes around.
They've explicitly mentioned several times that 5.18 in particular is being balanced around Worlds. Am I happy about it? No, but I hope to see some changes in the 5.19 PBE cycle.
And besides that, Caitlyn's buff to her traps was actually supposed to be explicitly to deal with Vayne AND Jinx. I'd rather see them both nerfed, but this is what Riot chose to do instead.
"Arguing quotes that no one said"
Dude, this is literally a world's patch. They have said so in forums nad even the patch notes mentions that.
Riot supports this page which states that game balance is also based on professional play. Riot is kind of like that really poor person that sits outside and expects poor people to give them cash to make a living, but they especially keep their eye on the 1%'ers (The 1% people are professionals) and make changes in his/her life for the 1% because of money and security reasonings. Well. Okay, I think I should remove the security reasonings.
isn't that the GOP's shtick ?
So what happens if Vayne isn't picked in worlds? ._.
It doesnt matter what they say. Riot is known for lying, going back on their word, and doublespeak. They HAVE to balance for lcs or there wouldnt be an lcs. If the game isnt balanced at the top level, then it simply isnt a competitive game worth playing
No, there would still be an LCS, it just wouldn't give them ridiculous profits.
I understand them balancing for worlds for the patch worlds will be played on, but I will admit the decisions on what they buff/nerf can seem pretty wonky or out of the blue. Then again I don't work on the balance team or analyze games or champions so I don't know what goes on in the process lol
If it is true, they are doing a very poor job at proving it. A few weeks ago I thought they were simply thinking of ways to change them without killing the champs like they sometimes do, but I doubt it now.
Riot has admitted they balance sometimes around the pro scene. Hell, in this patch alone, their justification for Evelynn nerfs was that they were afraid she'd see too much play at Worlds if they didn't nerf her.
Where exactly have they ever said they DON'T balance around the pro scene at all? Because I've never seen it. I've seen them say that certain particular changes had nothing to do with the pro scene, but that's not the same thing.
Honestly, Jinx is stronger than Vayne in soloQ. Interestingly enough Vayne beginners do better than Jinx beginners (weird..) and Vayne mains do worse than Jinx mains. Also Vayne's average played games is 100 and Jinx' is 95 - Jinx' winrate is still higher than Vayne's. And then keep in mind that Vayne does extremely well against Juggernauts - while Jinx is supposed to be vulnerable to them. So how does Jinx still do better than Vayne? Not to mention that Vayne is not that much of a priority pick in proplay. The only area in which Vayne is _objectively _stronger than Jinx is, who'd guessed it: forum QQ.
Inb4 playrate: yes Vayne has 37% while Jinx has 24%. However, playrate is just an indicator for average games played. Usually when the playrate is high one would expect a low average games played due to a lot of beginners. Yet that isn't the case, so playrate tells nothing. Finally, your subjective perception is not a valid argument. Also I do not want to say that Vayne is weak. Vayne is arguably one of the strongest ADC's atm and is one of the champions that need to be kept in check. Seeing how a lot of other ADC's that used to do well against her in the early game I suspect weird behaviour in that area (50+% winrate 0-25 minute for a champion that should be weak in the early game is definetely weird) that should and could be fixed by reverting some nerfs to other ADC's.
~written by a non Vayne and generally not ADC player.
watch vayne not even be played in worlds.
she wont be. maybe 3 or 4 games MAX shes not a good adc if the enemy is smart
They nerf champions because of professional play though look @ this
> Back in 5.12, we double-buffed Braum’s ability to fish with Q’s and start more fights with a lower cost - looking at the last few patches of _**professional play,**_ it would seem that we were successful. We love Braum being used for the epic moments Unbreakable and Glacial Fissure can provide, but we’re reverting one of the changes we made back then to keep the risk/reward paradigm on Winter’s Bite in line. We’re intentionally playing it safe on the big guy, but making sure there’s a cost to missing the moment without chipping away his reward feels right for how dominant he’s been.
Q - Winter's Bite COST 45/50/55/60/65 mana ⇒ 55/60/65/70/75 mana
OK RIOT SURE YOU DONT