Wait a second, Akali shroud lasts 8 seconds and the cooldown starts on cast??

Z3Sleeper··30 votes·3,954 views

What and why?

66 Comments

Milton Fletcher28 votes

because someone on the balance team HAS to main this champion.

no one in their right mind thinks shes balanced.

her laning is the worst experience you will ever go through as a melee top.

S0N0FN0NE21 votes

[{quoted}](name=Milton Fletcher,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z6hKMjs0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-28T06:33:52.127+0000)

because someone on the balance team HAS to main this champion.

no one in their right mind thinks shes balanced.

her laning is the worst experience you will ever go through as a melee top.

Or ranged mid. Since you cannot outtrade her because for some reason she has unlimited sustain and a manaless kit.

PhantomPrankster1 votes

{quoted}

Or ranged mid. Since you cannot outtrade her because for some reason she has unlimited sustain and a manaless kit.

as someone who plays mid all the time thats a load of shit

S0N0FN0NE1 votes

{quoted}

as someone who plays mid all the time thats a load of shit

Obviously not considering all the upvotes.

Nosnide8 votes

funny I just made a thread about how I hate laning against her when she is picked top.

Milton Fletcher5 votes

funny how ive been making threads all year long with multiple other people as well as multiple streamers complaining about her and asking riot to nerf her and yet she hasnt been touched.

funny how these people still have a job :/

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

Worst experience as top ? no, definitly not. But yeah, balance team contest among themself to make toplane hell

Feathermane17 votes

People act like there are no stealth counters in this game.

Because there aren't.

Hashihime13 votes

I am just gonna point this one out. Akali is bound to be in her Shroud. She can not move out of it for 8 seconds, she has to stay in the Radius if she wants to stay invisible. W CD is high early on and in late, where you won't have more than 20% CDR except if you are stupid and get Lichbane, it is STILL on a 14,4 sec. CD. And I can tell you, that in any teamfight you will NEVER stay longer than 3 or 4 seconds in your Shroud unless you are dueling or the enemy team is retarded enough to actually walk inside, what never happens.

Meanwhile Shaco can move freely during his Q (no complains just for reference). Kha with R-Evolution has basically permanent invisibility inside the jungle with Mobis, Twitch (even tho this is camouflage but since he's ranged w/e) has still a CD RESET stealth skill with AS steroid and Vayne has repeated 1 sec invis on tumble+ AD steroid and MS boost. What I wanna say is unlike those champs, Akali can NOT just freely move while invisible, which in my opinion justifies her W length. And be real here, if Riot reintroduced Pinks that reveal invisibility Akali would go back into the complete gutter (and I am talking almost Nunu Level here at least in Gold+ where people actually think about vision).

Downvote me into oblivion I don't care but argue with logic and not emotion.

SithesisLord8 votes

And be real here, if Riot reintroduced Pinks that reveal invisibility Akali would go back into the complete gutter

Good. A champion as broken and unhealthy as her should get the old Poppy treatment until reworked.

Hashihime5 votes

{quoted}

Good. A champion as broken and unhealthy as her should get the old Poppy treatment until reworked.

Good then to it with every champion that is broken and unhealthy, starting with all Crit ADCs, Maokai, Ornn, Malzahar, Orianna (should I even continue?).

Velzard of Koz2 votes

Feel free to, I might actually prefer it :^)

SteamBuster1 votes

{quoted}

Good then to it with every champion that is broken and unhealthy, starting with all Crit ADCs, Maokai, Ornn, Malzahar, Orianna (should I even continue?).

Orianna isn't even close to a problem. She currently has a 51% winrate with a 6.7% playrate. She's played a lot, but she's around a 50% winrate. She's pretty balanced.

Hashihime1 votes

{quoted}

Orianna isn't even close to a problem. She currently has a 51% winrate with a 6.7% playrate. She's played a lot, but she's around a 50% winrate. She's pretty balanced.

Balanced maybe (not in my eyes but biased so w/e at least her AA Ap Ratio can be lowered) but unhealthy. Too much utility while still outdamaging most Ap Mids who have none of her utility. Also, passive.

Nyarlathοtep5 votes

You do know that kha cant be perma invisible UNLESS he is out of combat right?

Hashihime2 votes

{quoted}

You do know that kha cant be perma invisible UNLESS he is out of combat right?

Which Kha just engages 1 v 5?

Edit. this was meant as a question.

Nyarlathοtep4 votes

And then dies because if an assassin engages 1st, he is going to die immediately.

Z3Sleeper3 votes

Makes sense but also just sounds like bad design to me.

Makes it too strong of a tool during laning vs alot of opponents (namely the non-bursters and non-tanks) and a much weaker tool later in the game where it, in my opinion, should shine.

But then again, it’s only overbearing in lane because it gives her 8 seconds of essentially free trade in her zone and safe passive sustaining.

I don’t care what they eventually decide to hit though cuz honestly every part of her kit except her E feels busted when playing against.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

She's still affected by AOE which 90% of Top laners are equipped with. Akali isn't a healthy design but honestly her shroud is the least of her problems.

It comes from her ability to Infini-stain and her comeback potential.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

It contributes to infinite sustain by mitigating damage for 8 secs every minion wave, allowing her to safely heal while also zoning off the enemy from the wave (cuz few champs can trade with her during her 0.65 second of visibility for her Q-auto).

Sexy Jack Rabbit2 votes

If you're unable to punish her if she's camping her shroud that's not just Akali's fault as champion. Learning how to play against her shroud with it's available counterplay is a good place to start.

Pick up a tank, Jugg or Fighter and force her to take damage or leave her shroud. Darius DrMundo Galio Illaoi Gragas Gangplank Malphite Nautilus Sion are all pretty great picks into Akali, as their kits essentially allow for complete mitigation of her safety bubble.

Akali's pre-6 is her weakest phase for a reason.

Z3Sleeper1 votes

That's assuming you're able to counterpick.

Now what if you didn't counterpick?

Pre-6 def isn't a weak phase at all. That would imply she's weak during that phase.

As a Diamond 3 I'm finding a hard time counterplaying that, I can only imagine how much worse it is for lower elo players.

Vedagr4 votes

Looks at profile Sees poster is an akali main Laughs

I like how ALL the champs you mentioned don't have the option to immediately go invisible after auto attacking or casting spells. Also how those champs don't have low cd sustain.

Invisibility is a cancer to the game. Sorry people are rightfully complaining about certain unbalanced aspects about your main.

Hashihime2 votes

{quoted}

I like how ALL the champs you mentioned don't have the option to immediately go invisible after auto attacking or casting spells. Also how those champs don't have low cd sustain.

Invisibility is a cancer to the game. Sorry people are rightfully complaining about certain unbalanced aspects about your main.

Of course I am an Akali Main, doesn't change the truth of my statement. Also going invisible after casting/AA is actually one of the few mechanics that seperates OTPs from "Normies" because the positioning in the Shroud decides how fast you go invisible again. Not to mention that all of the mentioned Champs (except Twitch) have a reliable escape / defensive. Shaco has R and W (hard CC), Kha has E on RESET with a fairly high range, Vayne has E (etc.). What does Akali have? Oh right her TARGETED R which can only be used on enemies. See her Sustain as the "escape" that other Assassins have.

I may be biased, hell yeah I am but someone like me who mained a Champ for now 4 Seasons knows both strengths and weaknesses. And Akali is a fairly good pick more or less. However let's say Riot makes her W pinkable, then they would have to Amp her damage or sustain or CD/Energy Costs, and I doubt you want to deal with Tank Akali again or? No you don't want to, nobody wants to.

And to all of you who have trouble against Akali Top. Pick. Maokai. Seriously you can't lose as Maokai vs. Akali. Forget Pantheon and alike those do shit to her if she plays it smart. Akali will at no stage of the game be able to kill a Maokai by herself while you can stop her from becoming any sort of threat. If he is banned get Vlad or Malphite (yes Malphite you heard right). And if all strings break and you are an Ad Assassin vs. Akali or ANY Ad Champ just get a damn Hexdrinker.

Scary3xxx7 votes

daily akali is op thread, " i refuse to learn to play against a champ because im bad at the game"

Nut on my Butt4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Goth Mom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z6hKMjs0,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-01-28T16:13:00.657+0000)

daily akali is op thread, " i refuse to learn to play against a champ because im bad at the game"

What is there to understand how to play against her? Earlier on she simply just outstats and jumps on you, and later on, people just group, cc, and blow her up if she doesn't end soon enough.

Needs rework

Scary3xxx1 votes

lmao akali is the weakest she has ever been, stop crying and learn how to play against her xd

Limrick4 votes

Rank one player is an Akali one-trick. His winrates suck with every other champ but Akali, he's not a rank one player, so his champ must be the thing that puts him so high on the ladder. If a mediocre player can get a 75% winrate in the highest part of Challenger on one champ, that champ is broken.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

He's had 3+ accounts in challenger at once. If you think none of that is because of skill and only because of Akali I invite you to get 3 accounts to challenger by playing nothing, but an Akali. Also, if someone is a one-trick I think it should make sense that they would have a high winrate on that champion, but that might just be me.

Limrick3 votes

How many one-tricks are there in Challenger again? Not a lot. And yeah, he's waaaaaaay better than I am, but he isn't actually rank 1 material. He's like a Tobias Fate, nerf his one champ, he'll fall very far very fast. One-tricks should have high winrates on their champs, within reason. 75% winrate in CHALLENGER is ridiculous. A reasonable winrate for a balanced champ would be like 55-60% for a one-trick.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

You're acting like this one guy is representative of Akali. You are highly underestimating how good one-tricks can be at their champ. Anybody with half a brain could pick up a decent champ and maintain a 55% winrate on them. People who know the ins and outs of a champ that they have exclusively played for years sure as hell better have a high winrate on them especially someone at the top of the ladder.

Limrick3 votes

How high a one-trick can go is absolutely an indicator of the champ's power. When GP was first reworked, Tobias was the best GP, so he got to high Challenger with multiple accounts. GP got nerfed, Tobias plummeted. Annie Bot dropped, Gosu was forced to adapt and pick up new champs, dozens of famous one-tricks have gone in and out of high Challenger depending on their champ's power level. A one-trick being rank 1 should never happen, because of dodging bans constantly. Akali must be stupid broken, it's literally the only explanation.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

GP was absolutely broken after he was reworked and was 100% pick/ban in pro play. A streamer abusing him to challenger and then falling way down once he gets nerfed makes sense. GP wasn't nerfed because Tobias one tricked him to the top of the ladder. He got nerfed because he was incredibly broken. If you don't see that, then I don't think we're playing the same game here.

If you are talking about Gosu and Vayne, then she was also incredibly broken. All she needed was Shiv and she was basically full build with her Q being allowed to crit. Once she got RFC one Q took out 90% of a squishies health and then one or two more auto attacks would finish them off. Not to mention the needless buff to her ult because of a bugfix. She had a high winrate and one of the highest pickrates.

The last time Akali was that level of broken was pre 3.5 back when Assassins were really good. Riot even had to hotfix buff her because they gutted her so hard in that patch. The difference between Akali and Blade and those other 2 are that both of those champs were completely busted and were abused by good players to get to the top and when they were nerfed the players weren't good enough with a now not busted champ to stay where they were at. Akali is in the bottom half of pickrates in top and has a non existent pickrate for mid lane. If you are actually gonna one-trick this champ, then you better be good at her.

You're just making all of these random assumptions with no proof to actually back up your claims. I've never seen anything from Riot saying that one-tricks being at the top of the ladder is a bad thing. You are still insistent on saying that Akali is broken and using one person that is incredibly good at this game and his champion as your proof when her low playrates and average - above average winrates say otherwise. You not liking to play against Akali doesn't mean she's broken.

Limrick4 votes

You are unimaginably dense. You just spent three paragraphs PROVING MY POINT. GP broken as fuck -> GP one-trick gets high rank. Vayne broken as fuck -> Vayne one-trick gets high rank. You must have some kind of cognitive dissonance to not see a pattern here. An Akali one-trick is an incredibly high rank, out of nowhere. He was a no-name irrelevant ass player even a few months ago, and suddenly he's rank 1 level? There are only two explanations, that he is SO GOOD at Akali that he can just body consistently high Challenger players, or his champ is broken. And I refuse to believe he suddenly went Super Saiyan and became Season 3 Faker.

It's been proven time and again that winrates mean nothing when it comes to balance, and Akali has a reasonably high skillcap, so obviously her winrate overall isn't gonna be something retarded like 55%. Azir, Ornn, Ryze, and Zoe all have mediocre or even bad winrates, and they're stupidly broken.

Akali is SO HOT2 votes

GP broken as fuck -> GP one-trick gets high rank. Vayne broken as fuck -> Vayne one-trick gets high rank

You completely misunderstood what I was saying lol. You are assuming that because all 3 of those players were able to get to the top of the ladder that all 3 of the champions were/are broken which is false. GP and Vayne were extremely broken which allowed the two players to get to the top not on skill alone. After both of those champs were nerfed their skill level wasn't good enough to keep their places at the top of the ladder. Akali is nowhere near the level of broken that GP and Vayne were and is quite the opposite. Blade has gotten to the top of the ladder because he's really good at Akali not because she's broken. Tobias and Gosu both got to the top of the ladder because their champions were broken and dropped after they got nerfed because they are objectively not as good as Blade.

An Akali one-trick is an incredibly high rank, out of nowhere. He was a no-name irrelevant ass player even a few months ago, and suddenly he's rank 1 level? There are only two explanations, that he is SO GOOD at Akali that he can just body consistently high Challenger players, or his champ is broken.

Blade has been in high challenger for a long ass time. He's only gotten popular on boards now because the QQ bandwagon started a few weeks ago. You keep claiming Akali is broken and your only proof is that someone got to the top of the ladder with her. GP and Vayne were provably broken before they got nerfed. Tobias and Gosu getting to the top of the ladder was a result of their champions being broken and not proof that the champions were broken. You didn't need two people at the top of the ladder to see that the champs were broken. Akali is not broken and you have no proof to back up this meaningless claim.

It's been proven time and again that winrates mean nothing when it comes to balance

False. Just bringing up the numbers by themselves is meaningless. You need context behind the numbers and the champion to use winrates and pickrates to justify balance.

Azir, Ornn, Ryze, and Zoe all have mediocre or even bad winrates, and they're stupidly broken.

Azir isn't broken. He got stronger because of the Nunu buff, but he is nowhere near broken. Not sure if Ornn is still broken, but I think he's still good in high elo so he might get more nerfs idk. Ryze is broken in pro play and is why he is getting nerfed. He's ass in solo q. Zoe has a 53% winrate atm and a high pickrate and the second highest banrate. Not sure where you're getting the mediocre winrate from.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

Limrick2 votes

"This time is different, he's just really good, trust me!"

Yeah okay, so he's actually just the best player in the entire server, huh? Being able to one-trick a champ that is CLEARLY soooooo weak all the way to rank 1, he must just be a god. Obviously he's incredible at Akali, but there are plenty of one-tricks that are equally incredible at their respective champs, who aren't rank 1. Maybe he found a secret solo-queue strat that gave him that insane winrate, but if that were true he would have solid winrates with all champs he plays. He's mediocre at Irelia, but he sucks ass at every other champ in the game.

I get that you're an Akali main and it's probably pretty awesome to see that she is capable of being so good in the right hands, but you're clearly biased on this. Tobias Fate was provably the best player of a provably broken champion, and he made it really high up the ladder, then fell after nerfs. The only difference with Blade is that Akali isn't as obvious, she has a much lower play rate than GP did. Tobias didn't hit rank 1 because GP was banned so often. If Akali were more popular, Blade would drop like a stone.

The thing I'll concede is that Akali has a massive skill ceiling to be even close to Blade's level. Probably why she isn't very popular, she takes WAAAAYYY more effort to perfect than most champs. But if the ceiling is THAT high, that still warrants a nerf. If a master of Akali can expect a 75% winrate, that's broken. Kind of an Azir/Aurelion situation, where the masters have stupidly high winrates, while the average is pretty mediocre.

Hashihime1 votes

{quoted}

Rank one player is an Akali one-trick. His winrates suck with every other champ but Akali, he's not a rank one player, so his champ must be the thing that puts him so high on the ladder. If a mediocre player can get a 75% winrate in the highest part of Challenger on one champ, that champ is broken.

Tell me how many other Akali Mains are in Challenger. I'll wait.

No I won't. 3. How many ADC Mains are in Challenger? How many Jungle Mains are in Challenger?

See, your statement makes no sense.

Limrick2 votes

False equivalency. Playing one champion is completely different to maining a role. There are dozens of junglers and dozens of ADCs you could pick from, there is only one Akali.

Hashihime1 votes

{quoted}

False equivalency. Playing one champion is completely different to maining a role. There are dozens of junglers and dozens of ADCs you could pick from, there is only one Akali.

Not really at least Crit ADC wise. Almost every Crit ADC plays the same with MINOR kit changes.

Limrick2 votes

They're still different. Same idea, but they have different power levels at different times. In general, you can just swap to a more meta one if the other gets nerfed. One-tricks can't do that, they only have their one champ, so if it's banned or just not that good, the one-trick is fucked.

Hashihime2 votes

{quoted}

They're still different. Same idea, but they have different power levels at different times. In general, you can just swap to a more meta one if the other gets nerfed. One-tricks can't do that, they only have their one champ, so if it's banned or just not that good, the one-trick is fucked.

So you gonna say Blade doesn't deserve Rank 1 after 5 Seasons of being an Akali Main because you say she is "broken". Sit down...if he would one-trick Urgot everyone would cry about Urgot. But keep your opinion I am just happy that Riot at least in this matter doesn't listen to you people.

Limrick1 votes

That's a lot of hostility there, fanboy. TF Blade got rank 1, so he clearly deserves it, he worked hard for it. But it does say a lot about a champ if a one-trick can do that well. If a one-trick's champ is weak, the one-trick is gimped. If a one-trick's champ is too meta, they get banned out too much to effectively climb to the top. So Akali can't be bad, and she isn't meta, which is the perfect formula for a really good Akali to climb. She's hidden OP, basically.

Hashihime1 votes

{quoted}

That's a lot of hostility there, fanboy. TF Blade got rank 1, so he clearly deserves it, he worked hard for it. But it does say a lot about a champ if a one-trick can do that well. If a one-trick's champ is weak, the one-trick is gimped. If a one-trick's champ is too meta, they get banned out too much to effectively climb to the top. So Akali can't be bad, and she isn't meta, which is the perfect formula for a really good Akali to climb. She's hidden OP, basically.

If you had to deal with a shitload of people who played one or maybe 2 games on her claiming she is so unbelieveably broken you would be the same. I am simply tired of these discussions. So once and for all.

Akali is just strong if the player knows what he is doing. I dare everyone of you claiming she is oh so op to go play her for 10 games and if you don't stop spewing your bullshit thanks. (not addressed to you tho)

The steam life1 votes

Why would i play her when i can roll my face on the keyboard.

AirKingNeo3 votes

Ok, tell me how to beat Akali then?

Akali is SO HOT6 votes

Despite popular belief Akali's early game is still really bad unless you let her free farm for the first 10 minutes and do nothing to stop her which, in that case, you absolutely deserve to get stomped on. Now that single target abilities draw minion aggro she can't spam Q on you unless she wants to take a lot of minion damage. Every time you see her go in to try and get some cs poke her down. Her shroud has an 8 second downtime early game and takes up a ton of energy to use so use that time to harass her and poke her out of lane. If she uses shroud every time it's off cooldown she won't have enough energy to keep trading with you.

If you know she has shroud up and she throws a Q out at you that means she'll probably try to shroud blink in your face to proc it so don't just stand there afk and let her hit you for free. If she can't proc her Q on you that means she doesn't get the energy return and loses out on a ton of energy. Don't try to fight her in her shroud at any point in the game unless you are miles ahead of her. This is one of the first rules of League and if you do this you absolutely deserve to lose.

Akali has a good powerspike at level 6 and you need to respect this. If you are mid lane, then you can just freeze the wave near your turret because she won't be able to engage on you without eating a ton of turret damage and lose the trade. If you push it up to her turret you are asking for death if you don't have a way to stop her engage so freeze it near your turret. If you're top lane it is harder to deal with, but the same concept of freezing the wave near your turret still works. Minion management is key against Akali post 6 and if you are good at it, then she can't really do much against you.

If her shroud is down, then she is one of the easiest champs in the game to gank so ask your jungler to hang around top/mid to gank her and put her behind. If you get a lead she won't be able to engage on you as well because you can do more damage to her and win trades. If she manages to get a good lead early game, just like any other Assassin, she'll just keep snowballing if you try to all in her or trade with her so don't do that.

Late Game all you have to do is CC her and camp her shroud with AoE and the sweeper and wait for it to time out before killing her. Tell your ADC to not stand afk in her shroud so they don't die. If you have a braindead support like Lulu or Janna on your team all they have to do is faceroll their keyboard and Akali won't be able to kill them. Don't engage her in 1v2s and 2v3s mid game after she finishes Gunblade because that's where she really excels and wants you to do.

She's really not that hard to beat when you think a little bit.

The steam life4 votes

But clearly she is because she has a 51.5% wr as an incredibly obvious champion in plat+. Champions that are that simple ie. udyr and volibear tend to have atrocious winrates at high elos because their counterplay is well known. But clearly even at high elo when she should have a garbage winrate because of her incredibly one track nature she still holds a pretty high winrate.

Akali is SO HOT3 votes

In top lane she has an above average winrate and is in the bottom half of pickrates. In mid lane she has an average winrate with an almost non existent pickrate. The only people that really play Akali are her mains which inflates her winrate and can cause it to fluctuate. Malphite is "Press R the Champion" and Garen is considered to be one of the most basic champions in the game and both have 51%+ winrates. Udyr is also at a 51.5% winrate. Annie is also one of the most basic champions in the game and she has over a 52% winrate. I could name like 15 other champs that fit into your category with high winrates.

Akali's kit might seem simplistic, but it is really easy to take advantage of in higher elos and you have to be really good with her to make her work against competent players. Sure you can pick her in a game and completely stomp noobs, but against competent opponents you actually have to play smart. Akali isn't too much about mechanics. All of the skill goes into important decision making especially during early and late game.

The steam life1 votes

That isnt true though. According to op.gg Garen has a 49.7% wr. Malphite has a 50.5% wr. Udyr is busted right now and annie is kind of a seperate case because she has a good laning phase and a fight changing ultimate. Akali simply doesnt have the versitily that is generally required for a winrate like that in plat+. Annie also has an aoe stun which makes her pretty good in teamfights and given that same stun good at setting up ganks so she has a reason. Everything that akali does is predictable and forseeable but there isnt really a way to stop it from happening.

Also what you said about akali goes for literally every simple champion and less so for akali since she has a built in sustain tool so you dont have to worry about taking poke.

Dead flag blues3 votes

Her damage are fine, remove her blink when she uses W and why the hell does she even need sustain with AA (with a non-existent cd) -_-

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