So with all of the class updates...

deadlychuck·Oct 20, 2016·7 votes·479 views

Can we expect to see CDR stop being an all purpose stat, and becoming a primarily magic stat?

Like you yourselves have it listed.

13 Comments

Commit SudokuOct 20, 20161 votes

clicked this expecting to disagree, surprised it was the opposite

deadlychuckOct 20, 20161 votes

hard to disagree with statements of fact.

Sniper 0Oct 20, 20161 votes

The issue I have with this is that the non "magic" users will need to be compensated for the loss in this all purpose stat. A lot of ad casters are reliant on it. Can you explain WHY you think it should be moved to a magic champion stat?

Dark NephthysOct 20, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zyra Suit Samus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z5Lbp85E,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-10-20T02:18:36.169+0000)

The issue I have with this is that the non "magic" users will need to be compensated for the loss in this all purpose stat. A lot of ad casters are reliant on it. Can you explain WHY you think it should be moved to a magic champion stat?

Generally because AD champions have Auto attacks, Crits, and Life steal which are all useful to Attack Damage. Then you have Mages which have AP that is only useful for their skills and nothing more. Which is why CDR was generally an AP stat since they needed it for their skills much more than AD champions (even AD casters since they still can do something when skills are on CD). Now with item 3174 being forced into a support item, the only 20% CDR item for mages are item 3115 item 3165 both of which have stats that might feel wasted and not an item you would want to build on all AP champions.

We used to have spell vamp, but that got removed and now CDR is just as easy to obtain on AD champions as it is for AP champions (and in some cases easier for AD champions). The only thing AP champions have over AD champions is some CC, which again is also dependent on CDR.

deadlychuckOct 20, 20162 votes

To make something clear, it's not that it should be moved to a magic stat. It's that it already WAS a magic stat. Then riot started throwing it onto AD items. To the point that it's now easier to cap CDR with core top teir items for AD than it is for AP.

So it'd be more accurate to instead ask WHY riot stopped treating it as a magic champion stat.

LovelleOct 20, 20161 votes

There are too many CDR reliant bruisers, and even AD tanks, in the game now to screw over their build-pathing like that. Only auto-attack reliant bruisers tend to pick up lifesteal (and rarely invest in crit) and even they prioritize CDR in their builds. CDR is just as important on most bruisers as it is on most mages.

deadlychuckOct 20, 20161 votes

Sure.... but how many of those champions have mana to gate their spamming of those reduced CDs?

So many of the champions were designed mechanically around sacrificing power for their CDR, yet that restriction has been removed.

Either, way it doesn't change the fact that it's listed as a "magic" stat. To which i've got to wonder, remove CDR, why would any champion ever want to be AP? It seems like an active handicap to be playing with.

Seriously, imagine if AP casters were given equivalents to item 3071 item 3812 . If those would be broken for AP casters, why are they not broken for AD casters... even more so when AD casters more often don't have mana restrictions.

LovelleOct 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Sure.... but how many of those champions have mana to gate their spamming of those reduced CDs?

So many of the champions were designed mechanically around sacrificing power for their CDR, yet that restriction has been removed.

Either, way it doesn't change the fact that it's listed as a "magic" stat. To which i've got to wonder, remove CDR, why would any champion ever want to be AP? It seems like an active handicap to be playing with.

Seriously, imagine if AP casters were given equivalents to . If those would be broken for AP casters, why are they not broken for AD casters... even more so when AD casters more often don't have mana restrictions.

All of the ones I play do. Besides, most AP casters have more utility and CC to make up for their lack of "theoretical" sustain. A 1/4 Lux/Zyra/Morg/Annie/(Insert control mage) here, will always provide more to a team than a 1/4 Jayce/Urgot/Zed/Kha'zix/Pantheon/(Insert AD caster here).

I would argue that Abyssal Scepter is just as good as Black Cleaver in most cases, if not more. Also, keep in mind that AP casters also have more access to MS than AD casters do, which kind of a big deal.

AP itemization is more flexible than AD itemization, even now, and especially concerning CDR. AD itemization suffers because of the possibility of building lifesteal and crit. Basically, ADCs ruin the itemization for everyone else with AD ratios.

deadlychuckOct 21, 20161 votes

AP itemization is fucking terrible for CDR still, despite riot apparently going out of their way to try and fix it.

Also, the only difference between a lot of the utility and CC of those champions you listed, was that the mages have AOE versions of the same things that the AD casters have.

Yet, that means nothing when half of them also have the skillshot element with them, and are used mostly 1v1.

LovelleOct 22, 20161 votes

{quoted}

AP itemization is fucking terrible for CDR still, despite riot apparently going out of their way to try and fix it.

Also, the only difference between a lot of the utility and CC of those champions you listed, was that the mages have AOE versions of the same things that the AD casters have.

Yet, that means nothing when half of them also have the skillshot element with them, and are used mostly 1v1.

It's still leagues better than bruiser/tank itemization. Black Cleaver and Spirit Visage are the best AD bruiser items right now. Literally everything else is lackluster. AP champions don't have to sacrifice damage and/or defense for CDR like everyone else does, but especially bruisers and tanks.

If your main complaint is that marksmen/adcs shouldn't have easy access to CDR then I agree. However, (non-adc) AD casters/bruisers/tanks are just as reliant on CDR as mages.

There's no AD version of Lux/Morgana/Annie/Zyra/Syndra/Vel'koz in the game currently, so I don't understand why this bothers you so much. There isn't a single AD caster in the game that offers the amount control they do. If they did, I would agree with you, but that's just not how it is.

DemoGuideOct 20, 20161 votes

Cdr should be an option, and not a mandatory. With spells cooldowns being already short CDR is super effective.

deadlychuckOct 21, 20161 votes

That's the problem i have with the current state of the stat though.

It's an option to the champions who already have 4 other options, when other champions have really no other options than that.

AP casters have CDR & Magic Pen as options AD casters have CDR, Armor Pen, Lifesteal, Crit, Atk Spd... Yes they don't get full usage out of the stats, but that's fine because they have the mechanic of auto attacks which give them a natural leg up to begin with and many either lack, or easier to land, skill shots, which also give them another mechanical advantage of AP counter parts.

If an AP caster misses all of their abilities, they have no damage. If an AD caster misses all of their abilities they still have auto attacks, and depending on the champion or their lead, that might still be enough to kill the enemy.