Because you want to know what i think of when i think of a strategy game?
Probably not, but I can ensure you that no one is looking for spastic quarter second decision making mixed in with button mashing and raw power advantage.
Sdars49 votesSafe methodical play styles still triumph. Look at apdo.
I do agree the game could be a lot better if riot didn't keep enforcing their exact view of how the game should be played and slaughtering every other strategy. As for your last point, I think all champs should be toned down. Primarily in damage.
I think with some changes to jungle camps, big changes in diversity and purpose to items, phasing away RNG, some work with towers, nerfs to damage across the board, mechanisms to ensure the early game doesn't become super boring both in competitive and in soloQ, a bunch of balance changes, some small reworks, 2 ping wheels and some common sense for everything else I'm missing, League could actually become a truly great game instead of just a popular one...
... oh...
... I guess we're stuck with this...
LeBlanc Rose9 votesWhat RNG? Dragons? The 30 seconds between plant respawns? TF's 100 or so gold over the laning phase?
RocketRelm19 votesI think here the RNG specifically means "critical strikes", which I think they 'are' working on getting rid of. Slowly.
LeBlanc Rose2 votesTY
Pierce The Veal8 votesI think here the RNG specifically means "critical strikes", which I think they 'are' working on getting rid of. Slowly.
Like how they removed dodge back in what was it, season 1? And crit is still here in season 7 soon to be probably season 8 as well.
DeathBurst6 votesNo they are not. They like a bit of randomness to make trades less predictable. Because if you can exactly predict the end of a trade (and with a point-and-click, un-dodgeable auto-attack, you do can), the one that would lose the trade will just refuse trading at all, and you get a boring, un-interactive game.
There have been various answers on Fearless and Ghostcrawler Tumblrs where they explained that.
DrCyanide1 votesThe problem I have with that philosophy is it assumes that abilities don't get to change the outcome. It also assumes the other guy won't get Crits to just kill you even faster (and being ahead, they can afford more Crit Chance). Yeah, there's a tiny bit of uncertainty it adds early, but if all you're looking for is a tiny bit of uncertainty in autos why not just have Crit Chance be a base stat that scales with levels instead of an item stat?
If Crit exists primarily to sway the right click vs right click matchup, why don't they change how that matchup works? Change auto attacks to behave more like the Culling against champions, instead of being auto locked projectiles.
DeathBurst3 votesDon't ask me. I'm not arguing for or against, I'm just repeating known facts and reasoning that Riot has told us, but beyond that, your guess is just as good as mine.
Still, my initial point in reply to RocketRelm still stands: Riot is NOT working on phasing out Crit chance at the moment.
FiddlesOnTheRoof3 votesI'd argue crit is a game changing example of RNG
GreatWhiteNorth4 votesSafe methodical play styles still triumph. Look at apdo.
I do agree the game could be a lot better if riot didn't keep enforcing their exact view of how the game should be played and slaughtering every other strategy. As for your last point, I think all champs should be toned down. Primarily in damage.
I think with some changes to jungle camps, big changes in diversity and purpose to items, phasing away RNG, some work with towers, nerfs to damage across the board, mechanisms to ensure the early game doesn't become super boring both in competitive and in soloQ, a bunch of balance changes, some small reworks, 2 ping wheels and some common sense for everything else I'm missing, League could actually become a truly great game instead of just a popular one...
... oh...
... I guess we're stuck with this...
I have to agree with this. Everyone but mages and assassins needs toning down.
Faceroll Tactics3 votesHave to be more precise than that.
Tanks are stupid, primarily maokai, sejuani, and cho. The rest are in fine spots. Tank supports are weak, probably could use a few buffs or we could nerf the stupid anti fun healing supports. Orrianna and Ahri do not need buffs. Artillery mages and sustained damage mages do. Assassins are just weak right now excluding Kayn, who is more of a hybrid ADCs need blanket nerfs so they're not the sole reason most games are won or lost.
Sdars5 votesMages and assassins too, but less than the rest. It's not ok for a Syndra to kill a carry just with ult. I understand that by nerfing everyone's damage, champions that rely on burst the most are hit the most, and sustain monsters thrive. If riot actually were to do this, which I seriously doubt they would, they'd need to make a balance "pass" to compensate for these and more factors. For starters, burst reliant champions should generally be nerfed less. Secondly, utility buffs could help phase out some of the burden of not being able to 1 shot carries anymore. Or small kit changes to make it so even though you are fully burst focused, there's more skill and counterplay to it.
Regardless, sustain would have to be hit too, so if you're a burst mage in this hypothetical new league and you burst the enemy adc from 100 to 20, he's not just going to recover all his health in 3 basics, and so he'll be in big danger if he wants to continue fighting, but at least the choice is there. This means burst isn't useless against adcs if it fails to kill. Ofc sustain shouldn't be gutted, though. Opting for a more lifesteal focused build should be an option, just not one that dominates the others and instead is a meaningful choice you have to make.
In this ideal League of mine, adcs wouldn't be so opressive that you'd have to 1 shot them at the start of the fight to have a chance, and so assassins would generally still function mostly the same except instead of going in when the target is full hp they'd go in after the target has been damaged enough if they want to instaburst, or if the target is out of position and/or the rest of the enemy team is busy, they'd go in earlier and they wouldn't have the problem of the adc being left at 10% hp and them being 2 shot while the adc recovers half his health.
To finish off, I think it'd be cool to have slowly ramping damage items/abilities for champions that want more dps at the cost of burst. Sort of like the concept with guinsoo's rageblade but different, and an actual item that more than a couple of champions would want to build.
Nahui15 votesMy friend, Starcraft has taken the spot of top RTS in the world and it's more split decisions than league could ever be.
deadlychuck5 votesIt really doesn't though. It has a lot of mind games, that can easily seem like split second decisions.
Yes when you start trying to manage hundreds of units, for the sake of micro you want a high APM, but that's nothing to do with the actual strategy of the game.
Sdars9 votesLeague does have a bunch of mind games, and regarding your reply to Sp33d Zer0, I do agree the damage right now is too high. However, it's not like there isn't strategic thinking to it. It's more like as if you're playing starcraft and your macro is terrible so no matter the strategy you come up with you're still going to lose, and deserve to lose.
For example, you don't need great reaction time if your damage foresight, positioning and understanding of zones and jungler influence are great. Instead of having to react to things you can already know when they're coming out if you understand how your enemy thinks, or not get in the situation if you don't. Regardless, while there is still a lot of strategy and thought that can go into the game, there's still a lot of things I dislike about it, and lack of strategic venues happens to be one of them, despite what I just said.
Need Gold 4 Tent3 votesThere is both involved, and I can say this as a top main, and I'm sure all other lanes have it in different forms.
Shen for instance, the micro play comes from aiming the taunt, aiming the collision for the empowered hits (in this case usually not relevant because you will almost always get it if done while taunting), then timing the W to block some counter trades, or using it reactively against bullies like Renekton. The better you are at micro, the more damage you can pull off in a combo, the higher the chances you can dodge skillshots reactively and overall, get a better result in a particular skirmish/objective/siege/lane trade.
Macro play would be reading the enemy cooldowns, enemy jungler location, the enemy mid laner location, my laner's ward locations and timer, and as a Shen thing, possible interventions with R, and after considering all of these, choosing the best course of action. This could be picking a good fight, going for an objective or even retreating.
However, neither of these will work without each other. You can be a Vayne mechanics god but if you don't read the map and get caught out, no amount of micro is going to get you out of the cc and nukes of 5 enemies surrounding you. This is how some scripters still end up feeding. But yet, if you know all the ins and outs of the map, and you pick a good fight to engage in... if you can't kite for shit, the diver is going to kill you. The Kog maw video by Rubick is a different story, I for one cannot even comprehend how that it is even possible for an ADC to facetank. I have never seen something like that in my low level of play. Kiting 10/10 indeed.
Both macro and micro play are important in this game, you cannot solely rely on one to win games. You don't need to be extremely good at both, but you just cannot have one without the other.
NineTailedMystic6 votesLeague isn't an RTS.
Magical Zoe14 votesAre you serious? Aurelion Sol is the king of doing damage by literally floating around and occasionally pressing Q and R.
Boop Daddy 12 votesYES.
It's amazing, so fun, I love it.
Except when Akali gets three dashes and life doesn't matter and end the suffering.
DunkinNoobs8 votesWhat exactly is the counter to a passive, methodical playstyle? Is it "Hope they fuck up and you can kill them"? You've now identified why such playstyles are a problem.
Lauchmelder10 votesFocused and calculated aggression resulting in a tactical advantage.
This advantage is a key and unlocks the win door if you got enough of them.
Right now you get one key, maybe a second one, and open the door already.
NineTailedMystic5 votesThere's a happy medium between making one mistake and being punished incredibly hard for it (OP's complaint), and requiring a myriad of "keys" just to punish someone at all. Accruing all of those small advantages, or "keys", in lane is ok for the most part. Cs'ing better than your laner, forcing them into undesirable trades, proper warding, etc. One small mistake shouldn't cost you the lane. However the farther into the game you go, the more punishing your mistakes should be.
Lauchmelder5 votesWell obviously you shouldn't need dozens of keys.
You shouldn't lose or win based on a single mistake.
Let's call a game of league war. You need to win several battles to win the war and the closer you get to the enemy capital city the more punishing his losses become.
And this is what league also should look like. If a small mistake in midgame can make the enemy power go from modern day Austria to WW2 Soviet Union and advancing halfway to your capital city it is too much gain.
You should win games by winning small battles like outfarming your opponent, aquiring buffs, killing towers, etc. Win step by step instead of winning with huge leaps.
I hope that makes sense.
Sp33d Zer07 votesIf you think that the game is literally just face roll then I have some bad news for you.
When players go in for their full combo on all in burst, they are already looking for an opening ahead of that moment.
At least the good players do.
deadlychuck14 votesNo i don't think it's just face roll, i think it's hyperactive spastic and lacks serious strategic thinking. It massively incentives aggressive play, by reducing the time to kill to lower than 5 chances to blink.
JedenVojak5 votesBlame the playerbase: Soraka was a completely legitimate passive mid-lane farmer who transitioned into a late game support that was capable of shutting down all aggression, and the people cried and Riot reworked her into being a total gimp.
Passive methodical play styles promote toxicity. It's just a way of saying "I want to be able to slowly and carefully remove my opponents options until they have to lay down and die". Easily the most miserable way to lose a game. Everyone feels better if their short crappy games are short and crappy not long and crappy. This goes without mentioning the inherent problems with winning just by playing safe.
Yeah, like this guy here ^
Penns5 votesis that why safe champs like ori and defensive builds + playstyles are basically always meta in lcs hehe
Lauchmelder4 votesOri is a lanebully.
JackMcSnipeyz4 votesAnd then people complain about people just farming, and playing safe and slow.
In the end, this isnt chess, or a strategy game, it's an arena fighting game, strategy is implemented in positioning, match ups, teamwork and mechanical skills, and yes - split second decisions and reactions aswell.
Dengeden4 votesIf you truly think there's no strategies in League, then damn, you wrong.
And this "quarter second decision making" statement is just ... point me to a new champion or item that doesn't have delays, windups or cast times.
deadlychuck3 votesIf you truly think there's no strategies in League, then damn, you wrong.
Well i don't, so i guess i'm not wrong.
Zedex4 votes
may be the playstyle you're looking for.
nm10103 votesDon't passive champions for the most part have exceptional winrates?
Boop Daddy 3 votesRIP Old Galio, my anti Zed friend.
It's why I've picked up Sol as my replacement. Positioning, quartering, and seiging are my favorite things to do in league. They killed off ap kog and Viktor's became more zappy zappy than death ray happy.
DuskDaUmbreon3 votesThe hell are you talking about? There are still a lot of champions you can do that on. As examples: Malz and Anivia in mid, Nasus and Sion in top, Jhin and Cait in bot, and Soraka and Janna in support. The only lane it you can't really be passive in is jungle, and that's inherent to the lane itself.
korg0233 votesIf Riot could stop releasing super mobility champions with complex combos i would really like to see more champions like Garen, Master Yi and Kayle. Why cant we have simple champions anymore?
Ariel the Cruel3 votes130 champions. There aren't a lot of simple kit designs left. (>_>)
MLDzXnRRR4 votesIf Riot could stop releasing super mobility champions with complex combos i would really like to see more champions like Garen, Master Yi and Kayle. Why cant we have simple champions anymore?
Because these champions have almost no counterplay and just stat check you. All these 3 need gameplay reworks.
TheHappyReaperz3 votesWhat is the active discrimination against methodical play styles? Hasn't SKT triumphed repeatedly because they take things slow, and play methodically?
Wasabi Kitty2 voteshttp://www.lolking.net/charts#/Highest%20Winrate%20Champions
Janna, Malzahar, Sona, Anivia, Taric, Soraka, Maokai, Garen, Draven, Rammus.
With the exception of Draven, Garen, and Rammus, all of those are probably the closest champions to matching a "passive methodical play style".
ImpmonCute2 votesthats actually what i enjoy about league the most. split second decisions in teamfights and micro matters in league more than any other moba. different opinions
RookPusher1 votesYeah? Because I routinely tank the laning phase and end up winning a lot of games because split second decision making doesn't decide games.
ImpmonCute3 voteswhats wrong with your opponents to not make use of their early leads
Thefrostyviking2 votesThe issue with passive methods is that they are often immsensly frustrating to play against by default, just look at old malz and current Xer or lux.
They all just sat two miles away basically farming and poking while avoiding any interactions to the highest possible degree leaving their opponent not really able to do anything.
That is the frustration of passive play, it exists in the botlane today in the form of any lane that goes against Janna too.
You basically can't engage on a janna without like 3 dashes or something unstoppable. And then she still has heals and a shield not counting any possible items.
People hate playing against Janna as far as i know x)
oh and lulu for assassins and divers, they know that anyone they engage on lulu will imidiately ulti and shield before polymorphing then leaving them more exposed then a shaved bear in a snowstorm.
lofi n chillhop1 votesand yet dopa the strongest player in the game adamantly uses a passive style. he refuses to try anything flashy unless he knows where the jungler is. he farms and pokes quite patiently, never trying anything he isn't sure of.
if he's outnumbered, he kites brilliantly to prolong the fight as long as possible so that the enemies are wasting their time.
deadlychuck3 votesThere's a difference between passive and safe.
Passive meaning you can look to get a lead without fighting and/or trading to near death with the enemy champion constantly. Safe meaning you look to only make decisions that you can ensure will work out in your favor.
These two things can overlap, but they're not the same thing.
BeatinWarDrumz1 votesLol is not a strategy game. I actually agree with your point, but if you want a less mechanics but more strategy game play dota
TNHA Baritone3 votesLCS proves that this is indeed a strategy game. You may not think it because you or your peers don't enlist strategy to win. The entire game set-up is strategy (Tank/Fighter Top, Tank/Fighter/Assassin Jg, Mage/Assassin Mid, Marksman Bot, Support Bot). Warding, lane swaps, pushing for objectives, wave management, synergy, etc. The list goes on. This game is full of strategy and the META is strategic picking selection of champions that are better performing than others in the state of the game.
Elkington VI1 votesPaasive-methodical playstyles only work when you can trust your teammates to not feed before the 15 minute mark. Only in high elo does this happen, which is why Riot makes effort to speed games up, in order to make pros more exciting to watch early-mid game.
In lower elos, everyone else is expected to do everything quicky. Foresight and planning takes a back seat to twitch mechanics and individual carry potential.
It's unfortunate, but that's just the result of balancing solely around pro play. Riot can't slow things down for everyone without making pros less exciting to watch, which in turn warps the game for everyone in lower elos. It's a vicious cycle that can't be stopped without taking some real risks. I dont expect it to occur any time soon.
SwiftKitten883 votes[{quoted}](name=Elkington VI,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RKaAj3X8,comment-id=0025,timestamp=2017-08-18T23:54:33.258+0000)
Paasive-methodical playstyles only work when you can trust your teammates to not feed before the 15 minute mark. Only in high elo does this happen, which is why Riot makes effort to speed games up, in order to make pros more exciting to watch early-mid game.
In lower elos, everyone else is expected to do everything quicky. Foresight and planning takes a back seat to twitch mechanics and individual carry potential.
It's unfortunate, but that's just the result of balancing solely around pro play. Riot can't slow things down for everyone without making pros less exciting to watch, which in turn warps the game for everyone in lower elos. It's a vicious cycle that can't be stopped without taking some real risks. I dont expect it to occur any time soon.
yeah as much as i love watching the pros... i dont give a damn what happens to thier elo if it means 98% of all other players are screwed becuase of it.
riot wont HAVE people watching pro play is no one wants to play thier game anymore becuase they screwed over balance for everyone else.
thats the problem. and it's why i stopped watching pro play.