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@PBE @Riot - Cassiopeia being omitted from compensation buffs to mana-regen?

Canastus··83 votes·4,162 views

http://imgur.com/4Ioooqn

At this point I'm simply shaking my head, how could you even do this after you acknowledged her pitiful state? You gave every single champion a compensation buff to their mana-regen for the coming pre-season, but you didn't feel like doing the same for Cass? Even champs with inherent mana-refund mechanics in their kit received some changes in that patch, except for her of course.

It's been over half a year since the last set of changes to her, and those were strictly nerfs. You're very much aware of her abyssmal performance in Solo Q, her overall statistics are simply disappointing, especially her winrate after she has passed the 40 minute mark. I know I'm repeating myself by telling you this but apparently you refuse to listen, otherwise you would have finally done something by now.

I know that she's due for another rework (god knows when that will happen, though) but that's no reason to keep treating her like garbage. Jesus Christ, you even remembered Urgot. She deserves some much needed help if you expect anyone to keep playing this sad excuse for a champion, especially once the pre-season changes hit live-servers along with the nerfs to ap-itemization.

Cassiopeia is going to have an extremely bad time once that moment comes, you can count on that. It is your duty to make sure this doesn't happen, that's the least you can do after months of ongoing negligence.

82 Comments

RedCyclone35 votes

Man Riot really fucking hates Cassiopia

A Superb Villain10 votes

http://ntraft.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/snakes.gif

chipi999 votes

item 3070 Yorick

maikokk2 votes

riot should nerf him again for good measure. just make sure nobody plays him until his rework unless they are out of rerolls in aram

Ultimatesplash2 votes

and ruin the fun that people have with him? no champion, no matter how outdated, should get nerfed to the point that they are absolutely not played.

Varalessia21 votes

"wow cass its been six months since your last nerf! Congratulations!" item 3070 Evelynn

3TWarrior2 votes

lol, Evelynn plays better now as AD Evelynn than AP Evelynn...something that was never supposed to happen

it's sad but Evelynn really needs a rework T.T

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

Which is why AP Eve has a 51% win rate in plat+...

D2Vincent4 votes

Meanwhile, every new champ coming out has it's own way of negating a Karthus ult

ApexInTheCircle19 votes

I don't even play Cass and my heart goes out to those of you that do. I've seen champions get boned and people upset about their favorite champion being nerfed. But in all honesty it really just looks like Riot hates Cass.

Either that or they plan on reworking her again.

A Superb Villain11 votes

Cassiopeia is now the literal red-headed stepchild of Riot, though we don't even know if she has red hair because there's no mention anywhere if she's still Katarina's sister, because who needs lore these days?

HentRex4 votes

-_- Riot Plz

  1. Jade Fang Cass still has a red head piece.
  2. After your comment I reread her lore...No longer cursed after playing a man for a fool, now cursed for being stupid enough to go into a cursed tomb.
  3. Come on everyone knows that Yorick is the bastard child of Riot. Rework has been in development since immediately after Xerath received his.
The Queen Viper1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Jade Fang Cass still has a red head piece.

It's pink though...

HentRex1 votes

More Magenta than Pink. Still it's in the Red family.

For Carthage8 votes

"Fuck Cass." - Rito 2016

Vistha Kai2 votes

2015*

For Carthage2 votes

*all years always forever

Bleediss7 votes

she isn't that bad

she's just not the best in this meta because she's a mage with an insanely high single target DPS

but the fact she's single target is what holds her back right now compared to others who have AOE abilities or ways to get their single target damage out and run away

this doesn't mean she needs buffs though, considering an ADC meta is coming up soon and she should be fine in that meta as cassiopeia is quite good at dueling ADCs, even vayne

edit: also cassiopeia is much stronger after the rework and more reliable to use, there really isn't much you gave up for 750 damage machine guns late game and built in sustain

Oerba No Naja7 votes

guess not since you cant rly 1v1 a adc , the most of the adcs out range cassiopeia and they can burn 60% of her hp before she even start to fight , and the qss is possibly the most op coutner vs cassio , not because of the stun , but because you can cleanse her poison and you have 4 seconds to kill her . and the meta is getting even worse for cassio since the most of ap items are getting nerfs , its already hard to get your powerspike in this meta imagine with more expensive core items .. and about the sustain with the new items the adc will out sustain every single champ in this game . and its not about " yeah i have sustain i can survive in fights " no .. its about getting caught or not . and with the meta favorising ad champs cassio will get destroyed even more faster than before , not even sure she will be able to trade 1 for 1 in a 5v5 as now .. and yeah the dmgs are impressive wow .. in theory because the fact is that cassio is not allowed to deal 100% of her potential in a team fight , its just impossible to not get caught wiht this low range fangs .

Bleediss3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oerba No Naja,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z3tMWAUl,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-10-31T02:46:47.796+0000)

guess not since you cant rly 1v1 a adc , the most of the adcs out range cassiopeia and they can burn 60% of her hp before she even start to fight , and the qss is possibly the most op coutner vs cassio , not because of the stun , but because you can cleanse her poison and you have 4 seconds to kill her . and the meta is getting even worse for cassio since the most of ap items are getting nerfs , its already hard to get your powerspike in this meta imagine with more expensive core items .. and about the sustain with the new items the adc will out sustain every single champ in this game . and its not about " yeah i have sustain i can survive in fights " no .. its about getting caught or not . and with the meta favorising ad champs cassio will get destroyed even more faster than before , not even sure she will be able to trade 1 for 1 in a 5v5 as now .. and yeah the dmgs are impressive wow .. in theory because the fact is that cassio is not allowed to deal 100% of her potential in a team fight , its just impossible to not get caught wiht this low range fangs .

cassiopeia's E range is 700

so the argument she gets outranged by most ADCs and they can burn 60% of her hp is false

unless of course cass is bad, unaware, and taking free damage

QSS is not as good as you're making it sound against cass, her Q has a 2.4 second CD late game and her W has a 6 second CD, not very long and something she can definitely use to stall someone if they decide on using QSS, you can also note you can use zhonya's if you can't get your poison back in time and your Q should be up again, ready to use for poison again

the meta is not getting worse, the meta is getting better

cass can't really compete with tanks at all, now that tank meta is about to be gone as tank/bruiser itemization is getting fucked over, she should be able to abuse her insanely high single target DPS against what will now be many squishies, even if AP itemization is nerfed, so no the meta isn't getting worse for her

and ADC's outsustaining cass is going to be the situation for everyone, they'll just have to nerf sustain for ADCs in new meta to make things fair, that's a balancing issue across the board, not just for cass

and the meta favoring AD champions is going to affect everyone, just like ADCs and their sustain, that doesn't mean AP champions are completely unviable and bad to use, cass will still be viable

plus it's not impossible to avoid getting caught out in teamfights, i've seen many players not get caught out because what? they have good positioning, and 700 range isn't low range, dear, that's medium range

Oerba No Naja8 votes

the meta is getting worse for cassio in every ways : stronger ad assasins due to zhonyas nerfs , and other item stuff , have fun playing any late game scaling ap carry vs Zed Yasuo Talon Rengar she cant get her power spike easily since the item are more expensive death timers are disgusting 70 sec , 30 min , so there is no late game , no stacks , no power spike , nothing yes cassio is low ranged compared to others mages yes the first time cassio was viable it was in the tank meta were she could destroy tanks easily by kitting them to death with item 3116 and sustain their low dmgs and then they destroyed her manacosts and sustains in preseason Late game ADC's have 50% or more lifesteal, 300+ AD, and 70-100% crit. dont tell me that KogMaw under w steroid wont destroy cassio before she could land a q " cass will still be viable " pls she is not even viable now .. ofc cassio can easily clean a fight vs no cc and no burst team comp , * and cass doesnt need ton of buffs , just balance her dmg , its toxic to get 90% of your dps in 1 ability

you can think whatever you want , just try to play her and see "zero replies as to why i'm wrong" = its just fcking awful to argue with someone who never played this champ or with someone who wont try to understand this champ by playing it in few matchups

Bleediss2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Oerba No Naja,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z3tMWAUl,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-31T05:19:46.239+0000)

the meta is getting worse for cassio in every ways : stronger ad assasins due to zhonyas nerfs , and other item stuff , have fun playing any late game scaling ap carry vs Zed Yasuo Talon Rengar she cant get her power spike easily since the item are more expensive death timers are disgusting 70 sec , 30 min , so there is no late game , no stacks , no power spike , nothing yes cassio is low ranged compared to others mages yes the first time cassio was viable it was in the tank meta were she could destroy tanks easily by kitting them to death with item 3116 and sustain their low dmgs and then they destroyed her manacosts and sustains in preseason Late game ADC's have 50% or more lifesteal, 300+ AD, and 70-100% crit. dont tell me that KogMaw under w steroid wont destroy cassio before she could land a q " cass will still be viable " pls she is not even viable now .. ofc cassio can easily clean a fight vs no cc and no burst team comp , * and cass doesnt need ton of buffs , just balance her dmg , its toxic to get 90% of your dps in 1 ability

you can think whatever you want , just try to play her and see "zero replies as to why i'm wrong" = its just fcking awful to argue with someone who never played this champ or with someone who wont try to understand this champ by playing it in few matchups

never played?

i main cass and have used her in multiple matchups against strong AD champions like fiora and yasuo and didn't have much trouble

but if you're going to say that, then forget trying to teach you and others in g&b what a balanced champion looks like

considering you guys defended sejuani and her 60% winrate and still think sejuani is weak, you guys are unteachable, it's pathetic

also you know what makes me laugh?

here you are with 430 games played as cass and you have a 56% winrate

if she actually was as bad as you make her out to be, your winrate would be lower, but it isn't, GEE I WONDER WHY

Oerba No Naja4 votes

_https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=Bleediss+ , it is a smurf ? because i cant see any cassio games sry

_ when did i try to teach you something about balance ?

_ wtf is sejuani doing here ? i dont give a fck about sejuani + i dont like this champion , its possible that i have said that the ap sejuani was more fun but nothing more .

_ yes 430 games , hopefully i can make work my champ well , no matter the champion you are playing ; i have seen urgot and zilean mains with insane stats .

_ No need to be mad at me , keep it for you i dont care much about your opinion

_ im not the author of this thread , but i agree that i dont understand why cassio isnt getting a mana compensation WHEN ALL THE AP CARRYS ARE GETTING A MANA BUFF , you can see a lot of people wondering why she doesnt get this compensation ~

_ i dont want to my main to get buffed i want to cassio to be less e dependant , having a better mid game , just shift a part of her e dmg to her poison and she is fine . and propably viable , this is about gameplay adjustement . People who say that the old cassio and the reworked one are exactly the same , you are wrong .

_ And i do support canastus threads because i agree with him on a lot of things , i wouldnt support it if cassio was totaly fine .

_ i dont get it , what are you complaining about ? because some people actually want to play their main as a viable pick ? because some people are bored because picking cassio instantly make your team tilt and say : " omg why you pick trash tier champs , you script maybe ? " i have this kind of msg 50% of my champ selects ..even tho its not recent there is tons of complain about cassio since her rework , and a lot of people agree that her rework was meh ; and turned her in something even more unhealty than before . cass pre rework and post rework are both not viable in the meta and underplayed . the Cass rework still hasn't met its goals ; and there was a huge wawe of negative feedback from both cassio players and no- cassio players . so tell me now , why its not legit to at least ask for the mana regen compensation ?

but lets say that cassio is fine ( http://champion.gg/champion/Cassiopeia ) and its not like even rito doesnt know about cassio current state (http://prnt.sc/8twopf ) have a nice day fellow summoner :) gl hf

EDIT : i agree with you on some points , cass is not that bad but her gameplay is unhealty : i mean that now her dmg is 90% focused on her twin fang and its ask too much risks to output decent dmgs , she has 4 aoe and her main dps is focused on the monocible spam , im pretty sure if you balance the cassio dmgs between her q and her twin fangs ,and give to her w enough dmgs so she can zone the backline in team fight . she could be viable .

FistOfSharkiesha6 votes

Cassiopeia, Ryze, and Kassadin are in a constant state of being ignored, overbuffed, overnerfed, and then ignored until the cycle continues.

g07h4xf004 votes

They also forgot about Amumu Singed Chogath Yorick and others.

Bleediss5 votes

{quoted}

They also forgot about Amumu Singed Chogath Yorick and others.

amumu is at the top of the tank food chain and cho'gath is pretty good as well

singed and yorick do need help, but why mention amumu/cho'gath?

Ultimatesplash1 votes

yorick needs more help than singed, tbh. Singed can hold his own and is pretty devastating

HentRex1 votes

Which is amazing seeing as how he has the most basic/oldest kit ever designed by Riot, is one dimensional, and the only change(other than getting a stun for good flips) he has ever received have been simple number changes. Kudos to Riot for this one. Not being sarcastic, ya he may not be the best team fighter but his annoyance factor is off the charts if he gets the slightest lead.

xFrostKnightx1 votes

No mana pots and Jungler knife upgrades do not restore mana in combat anymore. So your first back is a choice between getting something with mana regen or buying the Hunter flask. OR being forced into runeglave because riot has been trying to force all AP junglers into this item for a while now, despite how weak and poor the gold efficiency is.

Pretty much, all AP junglers who did not get compensated will be pushed out of the jungle unless the Assassin meta kicks in off the bat so junglers can keep blue buff for themselves.

chipi991 votes

Poppy (Eventually she will rise.)

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

after she gets her rework this year

Vistha Kai4 votes

Dude, check the post again. It's fucking 54 mana at level 1.

That's all there is to it. That's barely half of a mana pot now.

That isn't a compensation, that's a middle finger to every AP mana champion player.

Miraweave1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z3tMWAUl,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2015-10-31T07:45:52.090+0000)

Dude, check the post again. It's fucking 54 mana at level 1.

That's all there is to it. That's barely half of a mana pot now.

That isn't a compensation, that's a middle finger to every AP mana champion player.

You act like anyone who isn't stupid buys mana pots.

Like actually, absolutely no midlaners buy them. The only champions who do are mana hungry ADCs who want to bully lane super hard.

Hawkefire6 votes

Mana pots are actually very useful......I have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes not very many mages built mana pots, but I have seen Talon build mana pots (quite often in fact, and I myself will build mana pots on Talon), and also a fair amount of the more mana hungry early game top laners will buy a mana pot or 2 to compensate for the fact that they don't build mana items because they outscale their mana issues.

Voluug134 votes

Non-tanky Supports buy them a lot Lulu Karma Soraka Sona Nami Janna. Also Alistar. Mainly because they dont have the gold to buy chalice before SS and/or support item.

Some toplane champions reliant in mana too Singed Taric. Specially Taric who is an anti-AD counterpick that can easily start with cloth+3hp+2mana.

Mages in Midlane can buy them in mass to rush straight AP like item 3157 and item 3285 when they are facing menaces like Zed and need the Zhonia's active or the extra power of Luden's.

LeafyGreen1 votes

item 3070 Brand

Vistha Kai2 votes

I thought so too, but once I bought a mana pot for the lulz. Ever since I always start item 2003 item 2004 item 1056 on every ranged mana mage.

What's better: a) To heal damage the enemy dealt to you because you lacked mana to trade or b) Outright prevent the enemy from dealing damage?

I may be stupid, but I prefer to be proactive instead of getting poke down like a retard.

Cenobite Azaziel3 votes

"If Twin Fang kills the target, it refunds its mana cost (+ 1.5% maximum mana)." You really need more mana?

AquariusGine13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cenobite Azaziel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z3tMWAUl,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-10-30T23:45:52.921+0000)

"If Twin Fang kills the target, it refunds its mana cost (+ 1.5% maximum mana)." You really need more mana?

Yes

The Queen Viper11 votes

Useful for farming... doesn't really help you win the lane though.

Sulghunter16 votes

You can't use twin fangs for anything other than farming, not unless you want to burn through the mana bar faster than Sona in a spell rotation.

BoundaryBreaker8 votes

True fact, tried playing Cass several times, and I couldn't do crap except farm with it unless I somehow miraculously got MASSIVELY ahead (Thank you camping jg). And then late game came around and I was useless except for when ulti was up.

HentRex2 votes

The Twin Fang passive needs changed to "refunds mana cost if target is poisoned."

Champion Skin4 votes

That would basically make it cost no mana...

Canastus3 votes

Marksmen don't have to pay for using auto-attacks, so why should Cass? She already requires her targets to be poisoned to even be able to attack. Either halve the cost on her E or make it refund part of her mana for hitting poisoned targets. They could remove the lasthit passive to balance it out, that might be worth a shot just to see how she'd perform.

Champion Skin1 votes

The problem is that ADC auto attacks don't really have base damage in the same way Cassio E has which makes it scale up to level 9 but then stay flat (the only exception I can think of is Kalista with her E if she procs it is as if her auto attacks get +x damage and +60% AD)

While ADC's auto attacks don't really have a base damage in the same way... however they also scale really hard AD X AS X Crit With both AS and crit multiplying AD which makes AD scale really hard

Faded Lich3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cenobite Azaziel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z3tMWAUl,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-10-30T23:45:52.921+0000)

"If Twin Fang kills the target, it refunds its mana cost (+ 1.5% maximum mana)." You really need more mana?

Pretty much this. G&B's ignorance about Cass' power level, playstyle and identity both past and present continue to be astounding.

The Queen Viper6 votes

Again, Twin Fang mana refund only helps you farm...

It doesn't help you win the lane or when trading.

Miraweave1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=z3tMWAUl,comment-id=000500020000,timestamp=2015-10-31T09:31:56.035+0000)

Again, Twin Fang mana refund only helps you farm... it doesn't help you win the lane or when trading.

That's because her laning phase is supposed to be weak.

Unless you think it's a good idea to give one of the strongest hypercarries in the game a strong laning phase.

The Queen Viper3 votes

My only concern is that there won't probably be a late game anymore, if those new 70s death timers after 30 min stay. She wouldn't be able to hit her hypercarry-status (or even max passive stacks) majority of the time, due to the fact that games are way shorter.

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