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Scarra's right, everything in 7.3 went the right direction, but it didn't go far enough.

Tychusfindlay919··40 votes·3,463 views

Bare with me here, it's a pretty long text wall. Just some ideas I have, but mostly reiteration of scarra (for those who don't want to sit through half an hour of scarra talking).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNUTecjTvgM

Didn't go far enough for many champions.

Most of the meta champs stayed relatively the same and are barely weaker. The meta hasn't really changed at all.

Camille still facerolls, not a single steroid of hers (and she has many) was touched in the patch. Her Q, which has a ton of counterplay tacked on anyways, was nerfed pretty well, the other nerfs didn't even mean much at all. Jayce This guy still dominates lane hard as hell. Sure he was nerfed, but the buffs to lethality offset that. I'm fine with him not receiving anything in 7.4 since cleaver and youmoos changes might tone him down. Might... Khazix This guy barely feels different, he's pick/ban in my experience and still shred shit off the face of the earth and snowball WAY too good. Rengar Ok he was nerfed enough IMO. Malzahar Good riddance, you won't be missed by anyone Zyra I think these nerfs were probably enough. Leblanc She really didn't lose all that much power. Sure she lost some mid game power, but at that point she's snowballing anyways from her insane early game pressure Ryze Why was he never addressed... Ivern I don't know where I stand, maybe his nerfs were good enough, we'll see. Most of this guy's power stems from itemization and his shield CD Tristana Still garbage for the most part, who would ever want to play this piece of shit in the current meta?

Lethality dominates everything too well, I don't know if I agree with the youmoos nerf coming up. I think it would be better to partially revert the lethality buff. It was too weak before and too strong right now? Try the middle ground between the two and see how that works. That could have been accomplished this patch when it came out, but eh.

AND FINALLY, Drakes! Let's start with fire drake. Fire drake needs to be toned down, its snowball is noticeable and its late game makes games way too lopsided. Should probably be 6/12/18%

Ocean drake is largely irrelevant, it's a nice semi boost to lane phase and then it just becomes... unnoticeable, you basically only get this drake to make room for another drake and for a stronger elder burn, but the ocean drake on its own is just worthless.

I think it would be worthwhile to try in combat missing hp/mana regen again, but tone it down from what it was when it first came out.

When ocean drake first came out it was:

"every 18 / 12 / 6 seconds, restores 10% of missing health and 10% of missing mana."

Two problems with this iteration of ocean drake:

#1 It's random healing that the enemy can't really keep track of with the time intervals #2 It's a giant burst healing instead of being spread out and more predictable

I think it would be worth to try out an ocean drake like this:

restore .25%/.5%/1% missing hp and mana every second.

It tones down the lane phase of the current ocean drake but makes it more worthwhile later game without being way too oppressive. The healing is constant and much more tame, making it a lot more predictable. Like ocean drake has always been, its missing % hp so that it's not oppressive (flat heals and max % are way better than missing % usually since they are always good, whereas missing is only good the closer to death you are).

UNRELATED SIDENOTE

I'd like to apologize to meddler for my behavior earlier on a different thread, not only was I completely wrong but I was an asshole for having made that thread in the first place.

62 Comments

Blakiepug14 votes

Scarra has a great understanding of the League meta, and in addition to what you have here I would also argue that Scarra's point that Riot did not change enough during the pre-season is still hurting the game to this point. There was one patch where massive changes were introduced into the game with plants and the assassin update, but then after that all of the balance changes have been minimalist. Little has been done to tweak the initial patch of pre-season changes until now, 3 months later. Unfortunately, it just feels like balance isn't moving fast enough and as a result the game is getting stale. The meta isn't changing. And that is a problem. People enjoy League the most when they are playing the champions that they love the most. When the meta is so off-set like it is now though, it doesn't even feel good the majority of the time to play your favorite champions if they just get one shot, meaning you don't even get to play them all that much since you die before you can do anything.

I hope Riot's balance team is able to get everything together soon. Recently, they've been showing up extremely late to the party, addressing balance issues that became problems months ago while ignoring the issues that have arisen since then (heck, Jayce was a huge force back in September at Worlds and was only finally touched in February). This has caused the balance to snowball out of control with small champion pools dominating the meta for months going unchecked.

MFTORANK12 votes

I can't remember a moment when Jayce was bad, hell he was priority pick back in season 4 worlds !!!

jeremiahBIO6 votes

Tristana Still garbage for the most part, who would ever want to play this piece of shit in the current meta?

"Cries in a corner" did you really have to do her like that?

Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes

ADC deserve that and even more.

Such a pathetic and lesser creatures.

Anidan3 votes

I used to think similarly.. then I realized absolutely every lane and role has some champions that make you think they're inferior for playing them at all, and at that point it hits you that odds are high someone thinks the same about your main role/champions, so I got over it.

Dusk Mane Rengar1 votes

Well it was just a joke lol

Knoyle2 votes

pretty bad one.

Romtheguy1 votes

http://imgur.com/gallery/f7FdEdG http://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg

Gregor Gysi1 votes

No clue why everybody hates on her, you just need to play a traditional support with her (especially Lulu!) and you will absolutely dominate. By far my fav ADC and in fact the only one that I play right now.

MFTORANK11 votes

Trist isn't that bad, but she isn't season 4 trist either :/

TyrekGoldenspear6 votes

Malzahar: Good riddance, you won't be missed by anyone

Oh no. You pressed the Malz button. Shouldn't have done that.

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

{quoted}

Oh no. You pressed the Malz button. Shouldn't have done that.

I'm sorry, but maybe if they revert his rework he can be fine and healthier. But the current iteration of malzahar is the definition of cancerous, for me at least, it's a good riddance, I don't ever want to see this iteration of malzahar in one of my games again.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

I've heard the previous version was moreso.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

I've heard the previous version was moreso.

No the previous wasn't bad, and with no free banshees, you could actually retaliate.

The current one in a 1v1 pretty much just auto wins when his numbers are good. As of right now, they've azir'd him to keep him in check.

Remember when his passive banshees was 1 second?

TyrekGoldenspear2 votes

Yep. Being melee sucked against him.

Looknook1 votes

If you were melee against him before the best thing to do was try and fight him early before he had much mana or abilities. If Malzahar was fighting a lot early instead of focusing on spreading his Maliefic Visions, he went oom very fast. If he was oom he could last hit easily or spread his visions easily, so basically his self-feeding cycle would be broken before it could start.

ModAcademy Kayn4 votes

The old one won 1v1's instantly too, unless you luckily timed a delay'd CC to disrupt Malz's ult... He had that much damage.

YokoNomi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ywzwcHrJ,comment-id=00080000000000000001,timestamp=2017-02-11T17:53:57.989+0000)

The old one won 1v1's instantly too, unless you luckily timed a delay'd CC to disrupt Malz's ult... He had that much damage.

For what the resources demand of him, he fell off late just as much has he picked up. I've had enough games with old malzahar to know that despite his damage, he's a little too situational to be the best hand in a team fight, especially if the team actually knows what they're doing in terms of spacial awareness and/or otherwise. Now days though, in terms of 1v1, I feel like this already applies to a great deal of champions. Just singling out Malzahar for that very reason is a tad pointless, if not at the very least, a rather underwhelming reason.

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

My point was that he's saying New Malz "Instawins" 1v1's, while Old Malz did the same thing. Nothing's changed on that regard, only how he teamfights.

YokoNomi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ywzwcHrJ,comment-id=0008000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-02-11T19:34:52.084+0000)

My point was that he's saying New Malz "Instawins" 1v1's, while Old Malz did the same thing. Nothing's changed on that regard, only how he teamfights.

But I've beaten Malzahar's in 1v1 before. The biggest handicap to his kit was that his ult practically demanded his w, which meant that unless he was already somehow fed or holding you down for a team member, you were usually good if you avoided his puddle. Meanwhile, right after new Malz was released, all he had to do was W and E and win with a lot less effort.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Then you've faced Bad Malzahars. It's not hard at all to Q-W-E-R on someone if they're within in your range, as it took less then a second to do.

YokoNomi1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ywzwcHrJ,comment-id=000800000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-11T19:39:57.635+0000)

Then you've faced Bad Malzahars. It's not hard at all to Q-W-E-R on someone if they're within in your range, as it took less then a second to do.

I'm just going to go ahead and repeat myself, but many champions can already do that, many mages and some assassins in particular. Even back then, despite Malzahar's power, he very clearly had counters, and things that could just outright disable the purpose of his character. If statistical adjustments need to be made, I'm all for it, but I would very much prefer the benefits and struggles of his old kit, over the never ending bomb of his new kit.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

One could argue if it's good game design for such counters to disable the purpose of a character. I'd also argue, while he may have his counters, it's very easy for Old Malz to play safe, as once he has a bit of AP, he can very easily start clearing lanes.

Yaśuo Main1 votes

I've played against Old Malz, and let me tell you.

He was super AIDS, maybe it would've been that champion syndrome where you just play bad against them in general due to how they work and maybe what you play as/ what you can play with and can not. For me it's point and click suppress ults, which is one of the reasons Old Malz actually gave me super cancer, and I have played Old Malz, and the things that required skill IMO was his voidlings and his Q.

The new malz?

Now, it's clear outright cheese but at the same time, super GARBO mid lane. But you bring up points I don't understand for his old form. "I'm just going to go ahead and repeat myself, but many champions can already do that, many mages and some assassins in particular" is an example of being an invalid point, because Lux is a long range nuke and Ekko is a close range "nuke". They all have different range capabilities.

Lux has an AOE skillshot with another skill shot, and a LAZERRRR AOE. Ekko has a skill shot, heavily delayed AOE stun/slow, AA enhance and dash, and a super heavy damage AOE with a heal.

Zed has an AOE melee range, a skillshot Q, a blink, and another "blink" ult that can also blink back to the original location of when he ulted.

What I'm saying is, you aren't making a good argument for something that should be easy to make an argument for. Your points dont make sense. He didn't have many counters back then (which enabled AD malzahar) along with "things that could just outright disable the purpose of his character" being a QSS, MR item and a Maw.

Old Malz being better than the new one doesn't mean automatic revert, because Old Malz was still outrageously stupid.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

I'm just going to go ahead and repeat myself, but many champions can already do that, many mages and some assassins in particular.

Except while I can unload EQWR on Ahri very quickly, you can avoid 60% of the damage by not being hit by E. Meanwhile Malzahar dumped QWER and there was nothing you could do about it outside of buying QSS.

Core of E1 votes

He doesn't win 1v1's if you buy a QSS. QSS however, impacted old Malz way more than the current one.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

One could argue that's because of Binary Design, which is something we should stay away from in my opinion.

Arakadia1 votes

Old Malzahar was bad. Just better than current.

I honestly think him going ult>have jungler beat the shit out of you, is a big part of why he hasn't been fun to fight. Atleast thats always been my beef with him. And the lack of interactivity till he has ult and wants to do stuff.

Tribbles Foxfolk4 votes

{quoted}

Tristana Still garbage for the most part, who would ever want to play this piece of shit in the current meta?

raises hand slowly while crying softly She's fun, though...Plus, she can carry a game easily below Plat.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Eevee Girl Alex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ywzwcHrJ,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-02-11T07:56:49.451+0000)

raises hand slowly while crying softly She's fun, though...Plus, she can carry a game easily below Plat.

Idk, even on my gold smurf Ive yet to ever even see a trist pick

SweedishGunner4 votes

Rengar still seems like he's P/B at high elo.

Also Malzahar will be missed, by people that play him midlane and didn't jump on the FotM train.

SanKakU3 votes

I think the Ocean Drake change idea is terrible. It's fine how it is. You want to massively nerf it so that Infernal Drake is superior to it.

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

{quoted}

I think the Ocean Drake change idea is terrible. It's fine how it is. You want to massively nerf it so that Infernal Drake is superior to it.

I want to nerf infernal drake. But how is this a massive nerf? If anything it should be a net buff because it's constant regeneration both in and out of combat.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Because in combat regen would be giving Tank stats to squshies and make Ignite worse.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Because in combat regen would be giving Tank stats to squshies and make Ignite worse.

You're overreacting. THREE OCEAN DRAKES Giving a 1.9k hp squishy an up to 1% missing HP regen per second amounts to 19 hp per second if they're at 100 hp, which at that point you can absolutely destroy them, and ignite reduces the healing. Ocean drake is largely for mana on squishies and the health is mostly effective on large HP bruisers and tanks.

If you have a problem with ADCs being too tanky, I'd be looking at the current state of life steal and warlords instead of this proposed ocean drake change...

NineTailedMystic1 votes

I'm more concerned about Lane Phase. Ignite is already overshadowed by Exhaust and %missing regen kills it completely, likely even through Grievous Wounds.

Not to mention in combat %missing HP regen will make Tanks impossible to kill once they reach a certain %HP threshhold.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

I'm more concerned about Lane Phase. Ignite is already overshadowed by Exhaust and %missing regen kills it completely, likely even through Grievous Wounds.

Not to mention in combat %missing HP regen will make Tanks impossible to kill once they reach a certain %HP threshhold.

Right, but this is a much much more tame ocean drake than what was released. It's a straight up nerf at 1/2/3 ocean drakes. The release ocean drake was much worse for ignite tbh because there was a chance that the ignited champion would just instantly gain 10% missing HP (6% because of grievous wounds) during the ignite as opposed to .25/.5/1% missing HP times 5 (even at 3 ocean drakes, 5% is the maximum amount of missing HP healed WITHOUT IGNITE over 5 seconds, with ignite it's only around 3.6% missing hp during ignite). Also, ocean drake is meant to be a direct counter to damage by providing sustain, and ignite as a damage spell is no exception. There's nothing wrong with bringing ocean drake back to what it was meant to be as opposed to the useless drake it is now.

Yuumi or Lose2 votes

I havent played league im over two months, but when scarra did Beyond the Rift with QTPie, they said and agreed on something that i wish Riot would consider.

Remove runes and masteries all together. Completely take them out of the game. Unfortunately that will never happen. It would make balancing the game much easier.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

LIES!

I miss Malzahar altho not the one who's been around since the rework.....

PapaGreg212 votes

Ivern got destroyed this patch. You basically have to play Daisy 100 percent differently and just as peel now that she can't regen and her resistances have been lowered.

Big Lincoln1 votes

good desu

Core of E2 votes

" Malzahar Good riddance, you won't be missed by anyone" - just because he was an OP support doesn't mean he won't be missed. I loved playing Malzahar Middle. It sucks when your main becomes an Overpowered Support. I want old Malzahar back, with his old kit back.

deadlychuck1 votes

I really don't see why they're not just reverting the malz rework. It seems like it's impossible to actually balance around them.

Arakadia1 votes

Old Malzahar wasn't the healthiest champion. But yeah, old Malz was alot more fun and healthy, compared to new Malz.

Frius1 votes

i used to playMalzahar before the cancerous rework hit. then nerf every patch .

GigglesO1 votes

{quoted}

Ivern I don't know where I stand, maybe his nerfs were good enough, we'll see. Most of this guy's power stems from itemization and his shield CD

Just make this guy's shield like sion's shield. IF the enemy destroys it, you get nothing...

Karn Bishop1 votes

No the only change he needs is to allow his passive to fizzle out on enemy side of jungle if the enemy jungler gets in area during channel, there should be a reward for predicting iverns location not a punishment.

Jasiwel1 votes

I think Infernal Drake should be more difficult to obtain. Watching any meta jungler solo him without actual Lifesteal is seriously irritating. Given Infernal is the most prized and generous regarding raw stats, I feel it would be a decent resolution to at least see how making it tougher and more dangerous would play out.

notmebuthim1 votes

Khazix still way too strong, Ryze question fucking mark, Leblanc almost there

LordGeovanni1 votes

Camille only problem is that her q did too much true damage but they beat her in the back alley with the nerf bat. for being strong for one month since release but aurelion sol azir and jhin all took more than 3 months to recive their first nerf all being more oppressive than cammile though they also didnt pick up as quick because the comminity as a whole picks up champions with new mechanics slowly as fuck. hell vayne was opressive all of season 6 and she got a 3 ad nerf and thats it even got buffs. Cammile's biggest problem is that melee fighters have been bad for so long that if she isnt bad like the rest of them its like how come she gets to be a slightly more balanced version of lee sin and be a viable melee fighter while the rest dont people dont want to give her the champion the respect of playing around her kit. she has had over 10 things done to her in the month she has been out. they are makeing her incredibly hard to get any value out of.

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