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On the off chance...

Tychusfindlay919··98 votes·4,655 views

That ivern breaks a few juggernauts due to his synergy with them, don't you dare fucking nerf juggernauts anymore than you already have riot. That would be the result of an IVERN issue not a JUGGERNAUT issue.

I swear to god...

EDIT

Well since this thread has blown up far more than I expected it to, I'll address certain concerns the way I see them from a few posts down below (that may or may not be buried).

One big one is that ivern doesn't provide any more synergy with juggernauts than say nautilus or blitzcrank. The problem with these champs is that the way they displace allies/enemies is that they take one enemy and bring them to the juggernaut. Ivern gives juggernauts an opportunity to dash into the entirety of the enemy team to start off an engage. That could mean a darius getting a three+ man decimate off the bat or an illaoi getting a multi man dunk without having to use flash or wait forever for the perfect moment. There's a difference between pulling a lone enemy towards your juggernaut and giving your juggernaut a free ride into the enemy team while his carries follow up the engage. One does not circumvent the juggernaut issue of being kited because it brings one enemy and that's it. The other circumvents juggernaut kiting because it allows the juggernaut to potentially dash onto the entire enemy team at the start of the 5v5 engage.

Of course, one pointless concern that has popped up is that juggernauts are overpowered anyways and need nerfs. Yawn, no.

Another issue brought up is that ivern cannot tank alongside juggernauts like nautilus can. You have to remember that ivern has a pretty damn good shield with a very decent 70% AP scaling (I'm assuming ivern is going to be building a decent chunk of ap, like a mage support) that he can put on the juggernaut. More importantly however is the fact that it explodes and deals aoe damage and aoe slows nearby enemies. HE IS GIVING JUGGERNAUTS A FREE RANDUINS OMEN ACTIVE WITH A SHIELD ON TOP. So not only does the juggernaut get a dash, but he can 5 man slow the enemy team to further prevent kiting, and then if said juggernaut built randuins, he can slow them again. The juggernaut gains a lot more disruption power with ivern that they were ever meant to have.

Ivern's ultimate allows Ivern to essentially tank with darius and other juggies since it creates an entirely new, durable, disruptive frontliner that the enemies have to deal with on top of the juggernaut with a massive Ivern shield on him that slows AOE to keep them in place.

Here are Daisy's current stats in the PBE:

Health 1250 / 2000 / 3500 (+ 50% AP) Magic damage 100 / 125 / 175 (+ 25% AP) Attack speed 0.613 (+ 30 / 50 / 70%) Range 150 Armor 20 / 60 / 120 (+ 5% AP) Magic res. 20 / 60 / 120 (+ 5% AP) Mov. speed 419

So yes, there is a likelihood that Ivern can be problematic. I still stand by the original post on this thread that should there be issues, it is Ivern who should receive the first critical inspection.

148 Comments

arcinex26 votes

Unrelated, has anyone noticed or mentioned that Ivern is Riven scrambled.

Naenia3 votes

Very interesting! However, I fail to see how Riven and Ivern are even slightly similar to one another. I wonder how they came up with this name.

Leetri25 votes

Ivy+Fern sounds pretty plausible.

Dracocrash2 votes

yes, i even made a thread about it.

Wimbledofy1 votes

there's also rengar and garen except with an extra r

HeeroTX3 votes

Garen with an extra R = so OP Rengar OP confirmed!

ViciousSummoner2 votes

Rengar is Ranger spelled backwards.

Du Ma Mi14 votes

Rengar is Ragner spelled backwards. Ragner.

ViciousSummoner17 votes

its ranger brah you just gotta have dyslexia

Large Minivan2 votes

do you even English bro?

ViciousSummoner4 votes

u wot m9?

Navarune19 votes

Can you imagine what that free dash will be for Illaoi, though? shudder

EDIT: Not disagreeing, by the way; I just hope they have some plan in place for how this is going to play out.

Unstoppable Monk12 votes

There's worse champions to give a dash to when you're running an Illaoi. Galio

bill842 votes

*Laughs evilly "They will learn to fear us"

-Galio main

Vistha Kai2 votes

-Galio main

As a mid main, I hate you with all my rotten heart.

HazyCloud77 votes

Upvoted for reasonable post. Similarly, riot has tendency to nerf champions rather than items when the item is problematic and the items instead of the champion when the champion is problematic.

BastionKross3 votes

summoner 30: We at Riot have decided that Ivern's dash gives juggernaut champions too much power. summoner 30: So we'll be nerfing down juggernauts over the next few patches. summoner 31: But that means juggernauts will have to play with an Ivern on their team to be useful! summoner 30: We never thought about that, but we find it hilarious. summoner 30: We mean healthy. We find it healthy.

summoner 30: Now that juggernauts aren't a problem, Ivern's dash is giving assassins too much power. summoner 30: So we'll be nerfing Ivern next patch to remove that functionality. summoner 31: WTF?! Why do assassins get special treatment? summoner 30: How many #LC$BigPlays has Garen been making lately? We rest our case. summoner 31: Will juggernauts at least be buffed back up since the thing that was making them too powerful is gone? summoner 30: lol no. Check back with us next season, we may be able to fit some buffs in next June. summoner 30: If we're not too busy patching for the pro scene in preparation for Worlds by then, that is.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

It's not like juggernauts are in a bad state to begin with. They have between 5 and 25 %HP healing on abilities, True damage executions, 80 AD buff built into the kit. CC to keep targets close.

The only time a juggernaut isn't a problem is when they've been counter-picked by Vayne.

Tychusfindlay9194 votes

{quoted}

It's not like juggernauts are in a bad state to begin with. They have between 5 and 25 %HP healing on abilities, True damage executions, 80 AD buff built into the kit. CC to keep targets close.

The only time a juggernaut isn't a problem is when they've been counter-picked by Vayne.

Horribly misinformed.

A clear example of why lower elo players have higher tendencies to spout nonsense.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

And here, I'll spell it out for you because you're completely ignorant on the matter just to farm upvotes from other people who don't know:

Illaoi and Darius have the healing, Garen's is passive and Nasus's is his lifesteal.

Garen and Darius have the executions,

Darius has the 80 AD buff

Nasus, Darius, Garen, Illaoi, all have CC.

If you're going to be a jerk, at least be informed yourself. Perfect example of how idiots will tend to spout nonsense without checking facts.

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

{quoted}

And here, I'll spell it out for you because you're completely ignorant on the matter just to farm upvotes from other people who don't know:

Illaoi and Darius have the healing, Garen's is passive and Nasus's is his lifesteal.

Garen and Darius have the executions,

Darius has the 80 AD buff

Nasus, Darius, Garen, Illaoi, all have CC.

If you're going to be a jerk, at least be informed yourself. Perfect example of how idiots will tend to spout nonsense without checking facts.

Anyone who knows me on this board knows that I speak my mind regardless of upvotes. i have had plenty of downvoted posts, similar to the one you made here that I had quoted.

Illaoi and darius have conditional healing, not free healing. Nasus is in a shitty spot as indicated by his win rate and play rate, and this has been acknowledged by so many on the forums already. The same goes for garen.

Because you leave me little choices left, I'll have to spend time explaining things in the hopes that you one day become informed enough to speak with veracity.

Darius's ad boost is not flat. It's level dependent. At level 1 it's 40 bonus ad and at level 18 it's 200 bonus ad.

Darius's execution requires prior stacking to not be worthless. Garen's sucks ass against anyone not the villain who has just a tiny bit of mr.

"Illaoi has cc"

LUL, she has a temporary slow contingent upon killing a spirit or having the enemy run out (which itself is dependent upon her landing the test of spirit in the first place) and that's it.

Truly, truly, low elo garbage. That's not to say that all low elo players like yourself are horribly misinformed, but you certainly are.

It's kind of hilarious that you call me an idiot when you yourself have no clue what youre talking about. And once again I look down upon you, waiting for yet another misinformed response for me to correct.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

You just proved me right on every single point. Where in this did you win?

I never said any of it was free. Garen's the only one with no costs.

And honey, it IS flat, based on level. It's not a percent and it's not dependent on his AD. Learn your terminology.

Leave it to a "high" elo player to beg Riot not to nerf his precious freelo champs, AND be such a donkey that he can highlight exactly every point where his argument was wrong and still act like he was right.

Try looking down on someone when you actually accomplish something.

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

{quoted}

You just proved me right on every single point. Where in this did you win?

I never said any of it was free. Garen's the only one with no costs.

And honey, it IS flat, based on level. It's not a percent and it's not dependent on his AD. Learn your terminology.

Leave it to a "high" elo player to beg Riot not to nerf his precious freelo champs, AND be such a donkey that he can highlight exactly every point where his argument was wrong and still act like he was right.

Try looking down on someone when you actually accomplish something.

"Learn your teminology"

Here is what you said: "Darius has an 80 AD buff"

That is NOT noxian might. That may be noxian might at a particular level, but that's a horrible description of noxian might.

"Where in this did you win"

Everywhere. You're an embarrassment even for low elo players.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

I chose a midway point for an ability that goes between 40 and 200, and picked the point where it scales past every AD item in the game. Simple enough to understand.

You didn't present anything that proved my claims false. You stated their conditions. And unlike claiming Fiora has a 2 second dash--which in most games, she doesn't-- every one of my statements is true in every game. (excluding remakes, where Darius wouldn't get his buff to 80).

All you did was provide the evidence for why my points were all true. And you didn't even really argue against my original claim.

In fact, with how much you defend Darius in any other post you've made on the boards, you've made it quite clear he's strong enough to overcome almost any matchup--something that isn't true of a balanced champion.

As for learning your terminology, you also didn't defend that--because you know I was right. Even if it scales based on level, the amount is flat.

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

{quoted}

I chose a midway point for an ability that goes between 40 and 200, and picked the point where it scales past every AD item in the game. Simple enough to understand.

You didn't present anything that proved my claims false. You stated their conditions. And unlike claiming Fiora has a 2 second dash--which in most games, she doesn't-- every one of my statements is true in every game. (excluding remakes, where Darius wouldn't get his buff to 80).

All you did was provide the evidence for why my points were all true. And you didn't even really argue against my original claim.

In fact, with how much you defend Darius in any other post you've made on the boards, you've made it quite clear he's strong enough to overcome almost any matchup--something that isn't true of a balanced champion.

As for learning your terminology, you also didn't defend that--because you know I was right. Even if it scales based on level, the amount is flat.

I've given advanced tips on how to deal with his typical tough matchups, some of which I have lost severely in the past and have won in the past.

"Strong enough to overcome almost any matchup"

But not guaranteed to overcome any matchup. Theres nothing imbalanced about being able to overcome shit matchups, it only becomes imbalanced when something is guaranteed to overcome any matchup. Of course, youll probably find a way to twist those words so whatever.

P.S. You originally said "darius gets an 80 AD buff" that's auto wrong no matter how any rational person looks at it. Sorry. It's based on level and he can get up to 200 ad late game and only up to 40 at level 1. You're a feisty low elo player. You never said anything about noxian might being flat, you simply said "darius gets X AD"

Robrono3 votes

{quoted}

You just proved me right on every single point. Where in this did you win?

I never said any of it was free. Garen's the only one with no costs.

And honey, it IS flat, based on level. It's not a percent and it's not dependent on his AD. Learn your terminology.

Leave it to a "high" elo player to beg Riot not to nerf his precious freelo champs, AND be such a donkey that he can highlight exactly every point where his argument was wrong and still act like he was right.

Try looking down on someone when you actually accomplish something.

Gonna be honest, you have literally no idea how to debate.

The Ecdysiast1 votes

Care to explain yourself? I presented hard facts, which he then proceeded to prove for me. My argument doesn't need to include such unrelated things as harassment. The facts speak for themselves.

There are conditions, yes. But the way he's presenting his argument is the same as if he were to say Ezreal has 0 damage when you land none of his skill shots.

No amount of harassment from these two is going to change the facts. These champions DO have those strengths. Not all on one champion, and not every second of the game. They've all got cooldowns and EVERY ability scales to its level. Those are givens for every character.

The original comment did have a point: that Riot tends to nerf champions because of items and then the items to leave the champions weak. Sejuani with Cinderhulk, for example. But for players who've used juggernauts to climb to chime in as if the class is weak--and would be destroyed by nerfs due to synergy with Ivern-- is unreasonable.

Robrono2 votes

{quoted}

Care to explain yourself? I presented hard facts, which he then proceeded to prove for me. My argument doesn't need to include such unrelated things as harassment. The facts speak for themselves.

ok, the statistics you provided were accurate, but you misinterpreted them. You said that since Darius has a 50%+ win rate against Gnar, he counters Gnar, that is simply untrue. Gnar's average win rate is 47%, and his win rate vs Darius is 48%, which is higher then Gnar's average win rate. If Darius countered Gnar, then Gnar's win rate would be sub-47%, but it is not. Your statistics only prove my point. Going by how much you live and die by statistics, there is nothing you can do to refute this point.

There are conditions, yes. But the way he's presenting his argument is the same as if he were to say Ezreal has 0 damage when you land none of his skill shots.

not sure what you're on about here, not well structured.

No amount of harassment from these two is going to change the facts. These champions DO have those strengths. Not all on one champion, and not every second of the game. They've all got cooldowns and EVERY ability scales to its level. Those are givens for every character.

I said you don't know how to debate because you're misusing statistics, not harassing you. And if that is harassment, then you're guilty of it too by saying that Tychus couldn't climb with Darius. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with your second part.

The original comment did have a point: that Riot tends to nerf champions because of items and then the items to leave the champions weak. Sejuani with Cinderhulk, for example. But for players who've used juggernauts to climb to chime in as if the class is weak--and would be destroyed by nerfs due to synergy with Ivern-- is unreasonable.

I'm not saying juggernauts are weak, I'm just trying to say they aren't op and have their counters. Who knows, maybe Ivern will make the juggernauts op, I don't know, but if He does make them op, then nerf Ivern, not the juggernauts. It is unreasonable to also disregard the opinions of people who know the champions.

To summarize, you keep trying to use statistics that only prove my case, and you try to twist words to try to win, but you just can't. Scarizard himself said that Gnar counters Darius, and the statistics prove it, Gnar has an above average win rate vs Darius. I appreciate the attempt, but you lost.

Tychusfindlay9193 votes

{quoted}

Care to explain yourself? I presented hard facts, which he then proceeded to prove for me. My argument doesn't need to include such unrelated things as harassment. The facts speak for themselves.

There are conditions, yes. But the way he's presenting his argument is the same as if he were to say Ezreal has 0 damage when you land none of his skill shots.

No amount of harassment from these two is going to change the facts. These champions DO have those strengths. Not all on one champion, and not every second of the game. They've all got cooldowns and EVERY ability scales to its level. Those are givens for every character.

The original comment did have a point: that Riot tends to nerf champions because of items and then the items to leave the champions weak. Sejuani with Cinderhulk, for example. But for players who've used juggernauts to climb to chime in as if the class is weak--and would be destroyed by nerfs due to synergy with Ivern-- is unreasonable.

You clearly have failed to understand the premise of my OP.

Robrono1 votes

{quoted}

You clearly have failed to understand the premise of my OP.

Yeah, we got pretty off topic lol

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ajani goldenmane,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Hrdjd245,comment-id=00090000000000000000000000000002000000010000,timestamp=2016-09-26T19:09:45.030+0000)

Yeah, we got pretty off topic lol

I don't mind your relatively well-reasoned posts. The fact that deceased said this:

"The original comment did have a point: that Riot tends to nerf champions because of items and then the items to leave the champions weak. Sejuani with Cinderhulk, for example. But for players who've used juggernauts to climb to chime in as if the class is weak--and would be destroyed by nerfs due to synergy with Ivern-- is unreasonable."

Indicated to me that he didn't understand the premise of the OP. Nowhere in the OP did I state that juggies were weak (although if you look at many juggernauts like garen, nasus, mordekaiser, and volibear, the class isn't particularly shining but idgaf because I play darius and the post was mostly aimed at darius, and he is not particularly weak) or that Ivern was going to get juggies destroyed with nerfs. I had stated that should juggernauts have too good synergy with Ivern, it should be Ivern who gets a critical inspection for changes as opposed to the juggernauts.

FantasySniper3 votes

Actually, I wouldn't mind a minor nerf to Darius. He's too strong atm.

Robrono4 votes

{quoted}

Actually, I wouldn't mind a minor nerf to Darius. He's too strong atm.

I have 116k on Darius, if you need any tips on how to fuck him up, just friend me! I'm happy to help you learn to stomp his ass :) (also, I personally think he's in a pretty good spot right now, no real nerfs necessary)

FantasySniper2 votes

No offense, but obviously someone that mains any champion would be less inclined to recommend nerfs for said champion.

The main problem people have with Darius is that he auto-wins the lane just by procc'ing his passive, and he doesn't really sacrifice any power in the rest of the game despite that. He's like a better version of Garen, and just like Irelia, he can trade his way out of anything and make comebacks like nothing.

Robrono4 votes

{quoted}

No offense, but obviously someone that mains any champion would be less inclined to recommend nerfs for said champion.

The main problem people have with Darius is that he auto-wins the lane just by procc'ing his passive, and he doesn't really sacrifice any power in the rest of the game despite that. He's like a better version of Garen, and just like Irelia, he can trade his way out of anything and make comebacks like nothing.

I understand where you are coming from, but the thing about Darius is that he is a juggernaut, and being a juggernaut includes above average combat stats, but with that comes zero mobility. With power, comes sluggishness, and auto losing lane to ranged champs with slows like Lissandra and Gnar. Overall, I agree that he is a better Garen in most situations that do not involve Riven, but disagree with your assessment of his late game. Late game, Darius's damage isn't nearly as strong as it is early without his passive, and getting your passive is a struggle if you don't have a buddy to cc your target due to the enemy usually being grouped and willing to peel for your victim, and if they aren't grouped, they're probably stupid and are not going to win. Think about what Darius builds, he usually build Black Cleaver then full tank. Darius is an early game champ and lives by the motto "Win Lane Win Game", usually because 9/10, his teamfighting is not good. Primarily due to his long cool down on his hook, and his only cc being slows. The only meaningful ways he can help in teamfights is with his e, and trying to ks with his ult for his passive. If you want to know how to deal with a Darius, just poke, poke, poke, and poke some more. In teamfights, just don't try to fight him unless you are fed, just leave him be and focus the rest of his team. Darius is a champion that needs help to succeed in teamfights unless the enemy literally walk to him, he has limited range and needs to be next to someone to deal a significant amount of damage. When it comes to the trading in lane thing, as I said earlier, his whole thing is "Win Lane Win Game", so he is supposed to win trades against melee champions, but there are ways to win trades against him. First thing, don't fight for an extended period of time, AKA, don't let him proc his passive. Second thing, you see his q, you run next to him and deny the extra damage, then run. If he uses his E, just run, don't bother fighting, then try to do some sort of poke while he deals with that 24 second cool down level 1. Or you can just ignore everything I just wrote and play Lissandra or Gnar and auto win lane

FantasySniper1 votes

Um, Gnar doesn't counter Darius. If anything Darius counters Gnar. And although the rest of what you say is good, it's kind of pointless to focus on poking him when he builds tank. You need a siege-mage (or Ezreal, or anyone with genuine long ranged damage) just to keep him at bay once he has enough tank items.

Robrono3 votes

{quoted}

Um, Gnar doesn't counter Darius. If anything Darius counters Gnar. And although the rest of what you say is good, it's kind of pointless to focus on poking him when he builds tank. You need a siege-mage (or Ezreal, or anyone with genuine long ranged damage) just to keep him at bay once he has enough tank items.

Gnar is a ranged champion with heavy poke, % max health damage with a speed boost, cc in mega, and a good escape with his e, how does he not counter Darius? It's only pointless poking if you don't have damage, if you have items and some pen, he will feel it. And yeah, seige mages help, but are not necessary to keep him at bay, all you need is some slows and you're good, like a Ryies, or a Frozen Mallet.

FantasySniper1 votes

Darius' pull outranges Gnar's autos. (And can even cancel his jump, though that's unreliable at best.) His spin can clip Gnar at the edge of his range until Lv3. Gnar's % HP damage is attack speed reliant, and he won't be attacking while he's being grabbed and Darius will gain the upper hand just by applying his own passive in the time it takes for Gnar to proc his even once. So long as Darius is mindful of Gnar's rage and uses bushes like he's supposed to, he has the advantage in the matchup, because even if Gnar is mindful of Darius, he still loses fights with him. That's why Gnar has a negative win-rate against Darius, especially in high elo.

Robrono2 votes

{quoted}

Darius' pull outranges Gnar's autos. (And can even cancel his jump, though that's unreliable at best.) His spin can clip Gnar at the edge of his range until Lv3. Gnar's % HP damage is attack speed reliant, and he won't be attacking while he's being grabbed and Darius will gain the upper hand just by applying his own passive in the time it takes for Gnar to proc his even once. So long as Darius is mindful of Gnar's rage and uses bushes like he's supposed to, he has the advantage in the matchup, because even if Gnar is mindful of Darius, he still loses fights with him. That's why Gnar has a negative win-rate against Darius, especially in high elo.

The way you argue sounds like you think that the pull is spamable. The thing about Darius hook is that it has a cool down of 24 seconds level one, that is a longer cd then Gnar hop and is a large window for Gnar to harass Darius with autos and q's. When Darius goes in for a Q, Gnar just responds with his own q and the slow will get him out of range unless Gnar is really close to him. All Gnar needs to do to win is proc his 3 hit passive, and then kite Darius for days. Later in laning phase, all the Gnar needs to do to fuck Darius up is rush a frozen mallet. Darius cannot escape, and cannot catch Gnar, he is forced to try and reach his tower. Also, when it comes to win rates with Darius in high elo is that most of them are one trick ponies, who can make any matchup a skill matchup if they are good enough. Darius does not win fights vs gnar because gnar can kite incredibly well, and Darius's biggest weakness is being kited. So as long as Gnar manages his rage, and doesn't let Darius get in melee range, Gnar has the advantage and severely outscales Darius.

FantasySniper1 votes

Darius' pull is no more spammable than Gnar's escape. If Gnar can auto Darius, he's already in pull range. (So Frozen Mallet would only mean something if Darius was intending to run.) In the time it takes for him to escape a pull, he has at least 3 Hemorrhage stacks on him. Darius will very likely be able to follow up with a spin to sustain away some damage from the trade and add another stack. Gnar can only respond by jumping away and waiting until the stacks are gone or continuing with a very risky fight that Gnar will almost certainly lose, even if he was ahead, the moment that Darius applies full stacks. Since Gnar can't win trades, that means he's forced to farm and boomerang Darius if he ever tries to make a move or risk pushing the lane with poke and let Darius have the space he needs to force Gnar away from the wave or even get ganked.

Robrono2 votes

{quoted}

Darius' pull is no more spammable than Gnar's escape. If Gnar can auto Darius, he's already in pull range. (So Frozen Mallet would only mean something if Darius was intending to run.) In the time it takes for him to escape a pull, he has at least 3 Hemorrhage stacks on him. Darius will very likely be able to follow up with a spin to sustain away some damage from the trade and add another stack. Gnar can only respond by jumping away and waiting until the stacks are gone or continuing with a very risky fight that Gnar will almost certainly lose, even if he was ahead, the moment that Darius applies full stacks. Since Gnar can't win trades, that means he's forced to farm and boomerang Darius if he ever tries to make a move or risk pushing the lane with poke and let Darius have the space he needs to force Gnar away from the wave or even get ganked.

Here, I even went out of my way to ask Riot Scarizard himself who counters who, and he says Gnar fuckes Darius up https://twitter.com/RiotScarizard/status/779566844617175040

FantasySniper1 votes

Darius has a positive win rate against Gnar. Champion.gg (Read the comments, too.) LeagueOfGraphs.com Current.lol.Analytics.com

I appreciate the attempt, but it's honestly very hard to dispute the stats with a quote that is devoid of any explanation.

Robrono2 votes

{quoted}

Darius has a positive win rate against Gnar. Champion.gg (Read the comments, too.) LeagueOfGraphs.com Current.lol.Analytics.com

I appreciate the attempt, but it's honestly very hard to dispute the stats with a quote that is devoid of any explanation.

So you want to use statistics? Ok, I'll oblige you. Currently, Gnar has a win rate of 47% according to champion.gg, and his win rate against Darius is 48% according to champion.gg, and the only champions he does better against are Ekko and Yorick, with Yorick being his only 50%+ win rate, so wouldn't that mean Gnar performs above average when matched against a Darius? I appreciate the attempt, but I do believe your statistics have been refuted.

5 Stacks GG5 votes

vs Darius you need to do short trade so he doesn't ever get the chance of 5 stacking you and use your mobility/slow him to dodge his q.

Darius without his 5 stack passive is garbage learn to abuse it, it's easy

DarkRitual1 votes

Top Lane Morde is very happy about Ivern.

Tychusfindlay9195 votes

{quoted}

Top Lane Morde is very happy about Ivern.

It aint just him. Darius, illaoi, volibear, garen, and other juggs will be very happy. If riot isnt happy, riot better fuck up ivern. Thats all im sayin.

Malicious Metal10 votes

Eh, I'd prefer Nautilus Jungle over Ivern any day actually :P I prefer a tanky buddy instead of some scrawny utility mage

DarkRitual1 votes

Ivern can't build tank? Not like he needs it for clears, just like other tank junglers.

LatetotheRace2 votes

Ivern lacks the kit of a juggernaut. I have yet to figure out how to make him work. (He's probably just going to be a support jungle, as I've been trying incredibly hard to get him to kill things.)

FantasySniper3 votes

Ivern's AP ratios are insane. There's no reason to build tank on him beyond maybe Rylai's.

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121
votes
There is no need to compromise, feel free to go full AD teams people, riot doesnt care
Gameplay109 comments
109
votes
Ezreal is not broken, but I always found this interaction to be bullshit
Gameplay95 comments
90
votes
@riot this is the time to actually make steraks worth a slot for juggernauts
Gameplay65 comments
87
votes
PSA the laner controls his lane
Gameplay89 comments
83
votes