I honestly think League is broken beyond repair

Jefftiffy··47 votes·15,285 views

Now I understand this may be a little click baity and that what I am talking about below may be a little bit ranty, but I think it needs to be said. That said if its TL DR, skip to the part after "The Core Problem"

The game simply lost any fun factor over the last 2-3 years.

Quite honestly it started with the first mastery rework that brought us keystones. Base stats weren't adjusted properly to make up for the new sources of damage brought into kits for every champion in the game. I will admit thought that near that point was the juggernaut rework which to me was the turning point (wasn't as bad as a lot of people made it out to be and I could still enjoy the game), but keystones were the line of no return being crossed.

Damage and tankiness is something that is beyond balancing anymore. You either have stupid damage or are just so tanky that you can just kill squishies with your high base numbers until the enemy team can afford to put 3 damage dealers on you to kill you in under 3s. Bruisers are dead and have been for a long time. Mages are worthless beyond the early game with a few exceptions and mostly because of the problem that mages are basically AP assassins or hyper carries with how the game is balanced right now.

Lethality is literally the exact thing Riot purposely denied for many years in this game. Which was an early game build that scaled past the mid game to everything except the extreme late game. They purposely avoided putting in too many armor pen items and made sure that their next options were fairly unclear or open ended to make sure that armor pen would only spike you are one point and if you denied that spike it was wasted gold. Now its just build more damage or maybe build your only defensive item.

Now if you want to sit there and go but the game is balanced in pro play or anything like that. I want to remind you that the strategy for LCS is literally farm and avoid enemy ganks, take objs, teamfight, then end the game. Split pushing cannot be done anymore in the LCS thanks to mobility creep and damage creep making it harder for champions who traditionally filled those roles to see any play combined with the addition of recall buffs to baron making it less risky to send the team for a relatively safe OBJ at the center of the map that has dragon to contest with it which quite honestly is another major problem for the game (I remember when 1500 team gold was considered worth it, now its like 1500-2500 team gold for a dragon or over 10k with elder because of the effects). Watching a pro blow up in less than 2s isn't fun to watch. I remember watching Faker sit in disbelief dying to a .1s burst from an Anivia back in Season 7 as Zed. How is that entertaining to watch? Sure there's a few good moments, but everything happens so fast now there's a lot less enjoyment to it.

TL DR The Core Problem

I don't know about you but my favorite thing about League was the fact that some games you would get rolled early, but you still had the chance to come back. You could go 0/3 in lane and still have a chance. Now 0/3 is GG unless your team is ahead enough to deal with it or they throw. I mean we can just look at the team fights now. Fights that used to sometimes take 10-15s are often resolved is 5-10s now. I could at least keep track of what was going on on the screen back in the day, now its like trying to interpret a 4 year olds hand writing and put all the puzzle pieces together during a team fight. I didn't like the extremely fast kill times in DOTA 2 back around Season 3 of league for the same reason I don't like them now in League. It makes you feel like less of a player and more of a spectator and quite honestly it makes it less fun to kill and more frustrating to die. This is also compounded by the fact that half the time there is almost no decision making in builds and quite often the game is decided by the champions you pick not how well you play making you feel like you are interacting even less with the game.

The sad thing is I am finally seeing decent changes to balance on Riot's end this season. The problem is the damage from previous seasons that were supposed to "refresh" the game are just slowly eating the game alive and quite honestly making it a game that is borderline about to die. I understand that tournament viewership is going up, but the problem is that the team fights and ganks may be fun to watch, but the gameplay itself is very lacking in enjoyment outside of super coordinated play. League of Legends is changing from the game everyone wants to play to the game everyone wants to watch and that trips a really big red flag for me as a gamer.

Now I know that this will probably get a lot more strong hate than actual agreement, as that is always the case with things like this, but as a long time player, regardless of skill this is my opinion and I stand by it as I have seen so many people just quit this game and listened to so many people voice their concerns about playing it.

61 Comments

KZ Engel18 votes

new masteries broke the game

for 8 years, the games were balanced around the old runes and masteries. when pre-game stats and a single keystone were thrown out the window for (effectively) nothing but keystones, it became impossible to balance

Ungrateful Thug14 votes

I'm pretty sure Riot wants to push the game towards everyone playing like handicapped monkeys going balls to the wall 24/7, because it's more "fun" to watch fast paced games where lots of "cool and exciting" things are happening.

Give me Season 3-5 League over this crap.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Season 4 there was a time when mages were rediclous after the first massive rework i dont want to go back to that Assassins were redicilous in season 3 but i feel much better when they gated by being melee and not nukeing me through my defeses from range even though they still did nuke you through your defenses.

KlydeFrog1 votes

lol u mean deathfire grasp item where lb killed u in less then a sec

LordGeovanni1 votes

I meant to say season 4. though that dfg was part of the season 3 assassin shenanigans

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I meant to say season 4. though that dfg was part of the season 3 assassin shenanigans

I mean they kind of went overboard with DFG removed. A lot of AP assassins got double nerfed when it got taken out.

The only reason LB is a problem now is they severely overtuned her numbers when they reverted her rework because she was't nearly as deadly as early in the game before (she needed at least 3 now she only needs level 2 to severely chunk you).

LordGeovanni1 votes

I dont think DFG Removal was unwarented espeically when they replaced it with item 3285 and gave item 3146 an ap ratio along with other items with ap ratios.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I dont think DFG Removal was unwarented espeically when they replaced it with item 3285 and gave item 3146 an ap ratio along with other items with ap ratios.

I never said it was unwarranted, but quite a few abusers got nerfed in the same patch.

LordGeovanni1 votes

{quoted}

I mean they kind of went overboard with DFG removed.

im sorry but i dont see how this isnt the same thing*[sg-soraka]*

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

im sorry but i dont see how this isnt the same thing*[sg-soraka]*

I'm confused at your statement. What are you actually saying? Because I am saying that in the same patch that DFG a lot of the champs who abused it also go nerfed or were nerfed the patch before. DFG was a problem, but the champs for the most part were not at the time. The fact that it was a viable item on any champ with mostly magic damage said a lot for it.

Blåbæret7 votes

Yes.

The balance team has kept on pushing their garbage-tier changes and has refused to revert them even though 90% were failures. Yet when someone wants to call them out on it, they get banned from the boards.

Teridax686 votes

While I don't think any design element in this particular environment is truly irreversible (look at how Riot is bringing back Atma's), I do agree that League's changes in pacing have affected it very negatively. I remember playing a game last weekend where teamfights ended within literally 4 seconds, with a wipe on either side. Initially, ours was the team getting wiped, because their mid was fed, but at some point one person on the opposing team fucked up, and we started wiping them instead. I was playing Warwick in that match, and every time the teamfight ended I just mentally paused for a second and asked myself "... was that it?" Every time, it felt like combat had ended long before it had started to get interesting, and even though I was playing a pretty simple champion, and have been a long-time League player, I had a hard time keeping track of what exactly went on that killed so many champions in one go. By contrast, in my experience with other MOBAs at around the same time, I remember having very satisfying fights, precisely because I had much more time to do interesting things in combat.

I remember Riot at one point saying they never wanted fights where someone could die, respawn, then come back to join the fight again, but when I experienced fights like those, I liked them a lot. If nothing else, games like those have a much higher proportion of actual combat going on, because fights last a lot longer while death timers remain largely the same. League, however, has this problem where a ton of play time in every match basically amounts to PvE, namely walking around the map, waveclearing, or otherwise not interacting with champions, and only little fighting ends up happening, because fights tend to end in a few seconds, and are followed by much lengthier respawn times. This kind of gameplay may be good for highlight reels, but I feel isn't even all that great for spectating, let alone playing, as a very large part of every match ends up being fairly boring and samey. This is probably what has pushed Riot to search desperately for ways to inject diversity into matches, but their manner of doing so, i.e. by adding more randomness and forcing more PvP combat, has not been successful, if only because it doesn't actually address the real problem. If Riot wants their game to be more diverse, they should look for a way to increase total match time spent in combat, while still trying to keep total match times around the same, and doing so could likely improve League both as a game and as a spectator sport.

whizkid755 votes

"TLDR"

Not sure if you know what that means. The TLDR was hella long too xD

We need a TLDRTTLDR (Too Long Didn't Read The Too Long Didn't Read).

bigtendie5 votes

I agree with this post 100%. But what I love most is how some people always argue that the game isn't dying and proceed to bring up twitch views but how come I can't find out the official number of active players? or see how many "new" players are joining?

https://www.riftherald.com/2016/9/13/12865314/monthly-lol-players-2016-active-worldwide

This was from 2 years ago. Alot has happened in 2 years and Riot hasn't released any info on playerbase numbers. Yes, League is still very popular but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a dip in active players.

A Feisty Penguin3 votes

Personally I know 4 people that I used to flex with for hours, or even just blind pick it for a while, almost every day that now can't stand to play more than 1 or 2 games a week. I used to be able to convince friends to try and play and pick up the game, now I've tried to get new friends to play and they have quit within the first couple weeks because of the steep learning curve. I'd be surprised if the number of new players was somehow keeping the game afloat considering how many people I know are not playing anymore.

ChargeItDownMid3 votes

[deleted]

bigtendie1 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that the API has information on the playerbase numbers right? People aren't commenting one way or another because we are all waiting on someone else to pull those numbers from the API and definatively say whether or not the playerbase is falling.

Since you seem passionate about the topic, would you like to go ahead and do the research for us?

Nah, but you can.

Arakadia2 votes

EVEN IF the game is losing player count that doesn't mean it's dieing.

bigtendie1 votes

{quoted}

EVEN IF the game is losing player count that doesn't mean it's dieing.

I know.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

EVEN IF the game is losing player count that doesn't mean it's dieing.

I mean the players are the source of revenue for a free to play game in the long run. So losing players for viewers is a serious problem. You can only exist so long on a shrinking player base with a game with massive resources being used for it. Normal games that you buy at least have to $60-40 tag that can grab money and DLC that can always be canceled to generate revenue. Free to play games require a big enough player base buying micro transactions to thrive and if the game isn't fun to play more than likely players will stop purchasing skins outside of a competitive advantage.

Let's put it this way. Runescape had a membership fee and used to have almost 400 servers. But as the game started to die down, they shrank down to under 200. Just because people know about your game doesn't mean you can exist. Look at all the old classic games slowly shutting down for reasons other than technical ones.

Arakadia1 votes

League is nowhere near dieing. It will not be going anywhere soon.

Not with such a massive player base, name, establishment, esports scene, and company behind it.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

League is nowhere near dieing. It will not be going anywhere soon.

Not with such a massive player base, name, establishment, esports scene, and company behind it.

What player base they haven't given us numbers on it on about 2 and half years. Average viewers are going down for everything other than big tournaments which generates 0 actual revenue for the game other than the stadium, but those numbers are based purely on where its located.

When your big streamers like Dyrus (he has openly admitted to playing other games than practicing according to his contract) and even Siv HD down talk your game there is something wrong going on.

Arakadia2 votes

People have sad League is dieing every season.

You have no proof to make the claim it is dieing. The only solid data besides a few big faces who have played forever is old and supports that League is no where near dieing.

Despite all of this, League still has too many players to fall dead any time soon. Sorry your not enjoying the game, but it's doing more than fine.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

People have sad League is dieing every season.

You have no proof to make the claim it is dieing. The only solid data besides a few big faces who have played forever is old and supports that League is no where near dieing.

Despite all of this, League still has too many players to fall dead any time soon. Sorry your not enjoying the game, but it's doing more than fine.

But there is no proof its thriving either. The only thing we have to prove that is twitch viewership which doesn't actually tell us much. I can't tell you how many people just watch the game now a days rather than actually play it because player count isn't being tracked by anyone.

This game used to be the #1 streamed game (I will admit Fortnite appeals to a more generic audience so it taking the spotlight kind of makes sense). The amount of viewers on twitch is decreasing on average with the only part that is increasing is the average viewers for tournaments. I also have looked at the viewer count to see that the only time viewers increase is the few days after a patch comes out then it sharply drops by about 50%.

If you don't believe me here's the link: https://sullygnome.com/game/League_of_Legends/365/summary

Actually even better I found the 3 year summary. Slide the bar under the graph all the way to the back. In 2015-16 look at the viewership. The peak viewers is almost half of the LCS viewers quite frequently. Then look at past that. The exact point where season 7 hit. Look at how much it dropped. I would the peak viewers dropped by about 25-33% on average. And then you see another spike with the attempted mid season rework of mages.

Baron Kreight4 votes

Looks like the intention is to shorten the match times. Why is HOTS better to play for a normal paler? Because even if there's an ahole who goes 0-6 in 3 minutes you still have a chance to win regardless. In LOL if Zed goes 6-0 in 6 min say bye bye if you are playing adc. He will delete you all the time in 1 sec and there's nothing you can do about it. This is antifun.

thaBeast1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron Kreight,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ytpaNa5q,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-25T13:47:23.004+0000)

Looks like the intention is to shorten the match times. Why is HOTS better to play for a normal paler? Because even if there's an ahole who goes 0-6 in 3 minutes you still have a chance to win regardless. In LOL if Zed goes 6-0 in 6 min say bye bye if you are playing adc. He will delete you all the time in 1 sec and there's nothing you can do about it. This is antifun.

i play support and whenever my team feeds zed i feel like staying in the fountain for the rest of the game but for some reason zed always tries to kill me first even though they get bursted down and ultimately lose the fights tho

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

Why is HOTS better to play for a normal paler?

I mean tbf, i just ran around fighting people in HotS and i still won most games. i play my games to have fun but HotS is just aram on a weird gimmicky map.

Automated Riven4 votes

There are things which can be done to bring the game back to former glory. Honestly the game is mostly fine atm.

There were a few inherent problems in the old game as well.

  1. Adc's scaled too hard and so they had to be useless early to make up for the scaling advantage.
  2. assassins spiked too hard early and as a result had to be useless late.
  3. tanks spike too hard early but were fairly balanced later in the game.
  4. teleport is a spell which should not exist in the game at all and should still be removed.

Adc's are looking to be potentially balanced with the new changes coming up. (if the reports I heard are accurate about the true damage being reduced to 15% from 20%) and will be valueble for the ability to kill tanks over a period of time rather then bursting squishy champs. tanks now dont have the spike they have early and were given a ton of damage to make up for that. A potential fix is to have defensive items scale with base HP granting a smoother scaling, give them HP scaling to suggest building tanky items. (they could still get out of control early but it would rely on being fed rather then ambient gold) this would also allow for the scaling to be adjusted so that they actually survive in late game teamfights. Without TP top laners can impact the game more as splitpushing becomes a far more valueble strat assuming the champions who want to splitpush are able to duel tanks effectively.

TBH most champions in the game need to have a specific niche identified by riot and balanced accourdingly. For example. Fiora should be a late game splitpusher, who wants to be in a 1v1 in the side lane. And so she should be balanced to be weak early and scale into a late game duelist who functions alone in a 1v1. (remove the AOE heal please. It makes no sense thematically)

Champion picks should be chosen for their diverse strenghts rather then whomever clears waves the fastest. (an example) every subset of champions should be balanced around the other champions in their class. or subclass.

just my 2 cents.

Leto GT3 votes

I like the fact that games are shorter personally. Game length was a part of the reason I quit the game for some years. It's not easy to play for 45+ min.

I think the reduction of game length was needed. I'm not sure it had to be done by making it stomped-based tho. I can see the feeling of hopelessness emerging which was not that common before.

Late game champs used to be more of a thing as it used to be both harder to close a game and easier to come back. Now it's mostly early-(mid) oriented.

I don't know what's best. Faster or longer games. Both have their advantage and disadvantages. But I can agree to the fact that the game feels less fun to play overally to me.

Ayzev6 votes

Game length hasn't changed much if at all. What's changed is how quickly a game's outcome is determined.

Leto GT2 votes

My games last on average 25 min, yours aswell. So yeah, game length has changed a lot.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Yes but how much of that is detemined by the game playing out and how much is determined by surrendering

Leto GT1 votes

Barely any surrender. Maybe 1 out of 10. You can end games way faster now. I actually had a game not long ago where we reached the nexus at 17 min. I hardly believe that all your games are ending with a surrender. Power spikes earlier, more damage. Objectives are getting down faster and ppl die faster.

LordGeovanni1 votes

Can i have your luck i play out 2/10 of my games to a some one last hits the nexus win. On rare ocations i get 6/10 but its not often recently. Not carring which side wins right now just that it doesnt end in a surrender.

Nea1042 votes

Matchmaking. You can usually tell what team is better in the first 5 minutes, maybe 10. I don't mean the better composition; I mean better players. I wonder why these unbalanced matches happen so often, and nothing has been fixed :D

Kahl Drogo982 votes

well I think that this right here is exactly why league twitch viewer numbers are always lower than other game except for when there is an LCS event going on. (such as the most recent MSI, which league was below both fortnite and overwatch on the days that were not MSI livestream days)

IxozieI2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kahl Drogo98,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ytpaNa5q,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-05-25T18:33:09.863+0000)

well I think that this right here is exactly why league twitch viewer numbers are always lower than other game except for when there is an LCS event going on. (such as the most recent MSI, which league was below both fortnite and overwatch on the days that were not MSI livestream days)

Or maybe there are fotm games that normies are attracted to because it's the "new thing" but league is very old now? It has an incredible viewerbase on Twitch despite its age.

SutomuDrgn2 votes

riot always have something about a entire season to break the game idk wat despite having pbe to get some info they are always bad on final choices and need to fix things soon as possible then release more broken stuff and nevr learn their lesson

LordGeovanni2 votes

I wonder what happened 2-3 years ago that may have caused this.... (ripping of tank items apart while increasing damage thus making tanks shit at tanking and bruisers who shared tank items even worse Now tanks are only cc bots) (doubleing the Crit chance crit items did coupled with the lowering of defenses gave adcs massive damage and throught the need to survive that massive damage bruisers became second tanks with less cc and no access to crit when they used it more than adcs previously or lifesteal because they would die before even going in building ad and without ad you cant support lifesteal also the removal of Zephyr and the change to Guinsoos rageblade {the current maw passive but with attack speed and activating at a reasonably higher hp} took the item away from bruisers allowing them less attack speed options.) (mages also got nerfs to their big ap items but overcompensated with buffs on every other item that more than made up for the ap nerfs got lots of items with random hp so they are tanks in a safer back line position removing them from assassins and bruisers able to kill list thus less focus on them and more effective tanking than tanks. needed to survive adcs new power but it knocked the balance out for literally every other class.)

LegitBusinessman2 votes

To be honest runes and masteries should be removed all together. They failed in their goal of creating options for players and allowing them to make meaningful choices. This doesn't happen. One is always better than the other. People will mix/max and just play what is strongest. I have one page for most of the adcs I play. The only time it changes is if its a heavy poke lane ill just swap my secondary for bone plating / second wind. That's it. They don't give us the meaningful options they were supposed to and are now just become another source for balance problems to arise.

I Love Roses1 votes

Dude I love the game and I hope they have more changes to it

KlydeFrog1 votes

game is fine people cry over nothing. dont like it go play smite or hots

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

game is fine people cry over nothing. dont like it go play smite or hots

Hots isn't fun without friends for me. Never liked smite.

League has always had that charm to me with the characters. Its the only reason I come back. I am always hoping for the day that League can be at least season 5 levels of balance because even though assassin were strong they could be dealt with if you had good enough coordination. The variety and game felt so much more competitive. You felt like even though Zed and Katarina were strong solo picks you could go just about anybody any where else as long as you weren't hard countered and even if you were playing safer was easier. To play safe now you have to dodge over 80% of abilities and even then some champs can just 100-0 you with almost no gold advantage with 1 rotation.

KlydeFrog1 votes

hots biggest issue i think is solo que is just that solo que and if you want to duo que good luck waiting like 10 min to find a match. thats why i dont really like it that much. nut smite is identical to league though

Hyquiem1 votes

YES SOMW ONE RED WHEN I SAID THE NEW SYSTEM DID FCK LEAGUE

Hyquiem1 votes

Some times the solution might be worse then the problem itself.

Embers Remain1 votes

I'm on the verge of quitting the game indefinitely now. Friends aren't playing as much anymore due to the state of the game and also less time. No actual comeback options anymore. Just got thrashed by a yasuo - lulu botlane, genuinly have no freaking clue how to counter this shite. Games are decided in 10 minutes, fights are indeed too fast paced and over in 3 seconds, WAY too much damage flying around, it's either smash or get smashed (no in between). I've played this game since S5 and I've never been as frustrated with the game as this season. Espcially the ADC thing since I main support. It's come to the point where I just stay in fountain if I see a snowbally champ is fed and people are too stubborn to surrender early. I even tell the people in all chat im sorry and they can report me, I rarely care anymore. Anyway, rant over.

fthisbrokengame1 votes

Still broken with Core stats per champion. People are blowing me up but I can't blow people with even higher stats like dmg/crit chance...

xXSpearmint69Xx1 votes

LoL has wayyy faster killtimes than Dota2 at this point. Nothing can copy the 0.1s rengar burstdown.

GiveMeFarmPlz1 votes

Couldn't agree more, balanced vayne 3 shooting people with 2 items (wait, isn't vayne a late game champ? remember the time when u needed at last 3 items to START making SOME damage? :d) and it's just one of many exemples in the game now :/

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