Realistically speaking, did you REALLY think Ivern would ever be balanced once you saw his kit?

Lux Tizer·Apr 15, 2017·11 votes·940 views

Because the first thing I thought when I saw him was "Wow, this is hands down the most broken champion they've ever made, and he's literally gonna be game changing." And he is. And he also is.

Quick TLDR rundown?

The fucker can create his own bushes. He doubles the buffs on the map for your team only. He has a built in Smite that instantly takes any camp while he walks in circles counterjungling or getting even more vision. His root can drag your ENTIRE TEAM to the target it hits. His ult is a self-regenerating tibbers with a mini Braum ult every 3 attacks.

I know a lot of people frown on posts like this since framing a champion this way can make almost anything sound overpowered, but if anyone deserves one of these it's the posterchild champion for Riot's most unbalanceable ideas.

27 Comments

Big LincolnApr 15, 20176 votes

no lol

no champ who can counterjungle as quickly and safely as ivern will be balanced

even worse that his shield has no counterplay, pop it and you're still gonna get nuked and slowed

ArakadiaApr 15, 20174 votes

You could just get out of the way from his shield.

Sure thats hard on champions like Juggernauts, but not everything is going to be 100% dodgable. Which is fine.

ChaddyFantomeApr 15, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yswb9UGl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-15T12:12:42.920+0000)

no lol

no champ who can counterjungle as quickly and safely as ivern will be balanced

even worse that his shield has no counterplay, pop it and you're still gonna get nuked and slowed

Not being able to be made utterly useless isn't the same thing as having no counterplay, lets not get carried away. people nowadays abuse that term on anything , it starting to devalue the term as a whole.

Just don't be near the slow range. it has a significant delay and doesn't even deal that much damage.

byakugan123Apr 15, 20175 votes

actually almost everyone thought ivern was weak as fuck but then rito nudged him a little and he became the hippie monster that he is today

hhaavviikkApr 15, 20173 votes

yes because daisy used to be utter shit with it's terrible AI

Supreme Senpai69Apr 15, 20171 votes

Plus she's the only pet that goes away when its owner dies

ChaddyFantomeApr 15, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Revan Senpai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yswb9UGl,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-04-15T13:10:08.317+0000)

Plus she's the only pet that goes away when its owner dies

Malzahar voidlings. Elise spiders. Morde Drag

In fact i believe the only pet that stays are Shaco Clone and tibbers.

Supreme Senpai69Apr 16, 20171 votes

Not to be a rood dood but I meant ult pets lol. Of course those basic ability summons go away when the owner dies. Yorick and Annie keep theirs, and Ivern loses his. It's not unbalanced it's just frustrating because of her super shitty AI to begin with

Lux TizerApr 15, 20171 votes

It seems pretty much every champ with controllable AI has gone through some form of this lol.

KONO RUBICK DAApr 15, 20172 votes

infinity shield infinity snare

fck this brain tumor, better complain about yasuo **** this

ArakadiaApr 15, 20172 votes

He has a built in Smite that instantly takes any camp while he walks in circles counterjungling or getting even more vision.

You mean his passive? You know his passive actually slows him down compared to other junglers?

His root can drag your ENTIRE TEAM to the target it hits.

Half your team doesn't want to be in melee range, so this isn't a problem. Plus his root is a single target, far from fast, medium ranged skill shot.

His ult is a self-regenerating tibbers with a mini Braum ult every 3 attacks.

Do you have a degree in exaggeration? Tibbers has a massive burst on summon, has no delay, can stun the enemy on cast, has a constant aura of damage, AND has a vengeance effect for when Annie is killed. Daisy does not. It makes sense she gets to regenerate health out of combat, as a trade off for all that. Her summon is even delayed and has a cast time for Ivern.

Her knockup is not even close to Braum's ult. The vast majority of the time, IF you get the very conditional three autos, you will only knockup on target. Not to mention that Daisy has slow AS, which can't be increased, and doesn't leave a super slow zone. And Daisy's knockup, is even small than "a mini braum ult".

You admit to listing just their strengths to make them strong, and even exaggerate Ivern, but thats not okay. The problem with Ivern wouldn't exist if supports were better designed. The reason Ivern is exceptionally strong is not because of all the shit you listed, but because he can buy Redemption first item and your support cannot. He is a support without the low gold budget.

The Lost MarblesApr 15, 20174 votes

{quoted} Half your team doesn't want to be in melee range, so this isn't a problem.

Ivern and his allies can target enemies rooted by Rootcaller to dash to them, placing themselves at their attack range from the target.

ArakadiaApr 15, 20171 votes

There are still allies who don't want to get closer. And some allies CANT dash in melee range if they wanted to.

But yeah that was mb.

But that one mistake doesn't invalidate my whole post...

LauchmelderApr 15, 20171 votes

His passive slows him down?

Man, the last time I played Ivern jungle I was constantly 2 levels ahead of the enemy jungler.

And that means something, because I'm a garbage jungler.

ArakadiaApr 16, 20171 votes

Isn't it 40 seconds for his first grove?

LauchmelderApr 16, 20171 votes

Use the passive on your buff and another camp, then move to the enemy jungle, passive that buff and smite it, then get out.

By the time you're back in your jungle and used the passive on a third camp the first one should be ready again.

It literally doesn't matter if it's 40s

Sun Wu RyuumokuApr 15, 20172 votes

Actualy he was balanced... with old jungle... But now :

its hard to clear the jungle
don't give xp enough

So its great for him who clear fast and his items aren't costly. Add to this hyper-carry meta

The Lost MarblesApr 15, 20172 votes

Just throwing out some possible nerfs I randomly came up with. Just individual suggestions, not saying to just throw them all on at once.

Friend of the Forest's channel time increases by 100%-0% (scales down with Ivern's Level) when creating a grove in the enemy jungle. (Not so easy counterjungling. Not sure if 100%, or a 5 second channel total, is too long. Maybe 60% for a 4-second channel might be a more reasonable starting point?)
Rootcaller allows only Ivern and up to one ally to dash to the target. (Multi-man gapcloser on a basic ability is a bit much. Similar to that Thresh nerf from ages ago where only the first ally got Dark Passage's shield.)
Triggerseed cooldown increased to 12 / 11.5 / 11 / 10.5 / 10 seconds. (Just raising the end cooldown a bit since Ivern's unique build style for a jungler gives him 40-45% CDR easily.)

Supreme Senpai69Apr 16, 20171 votes

For rootcaller i thought it only works on one person? Not ivern + 1 but like literally just one. Or are my teammates just braindeads who never go in?

lilycuApr 15, 20172 votes

Daisy no longers regens health if I recall

ArdunoApr 15, 20171 votes

Rengar ADC Ivern Support So crazy so fun

Very Hard EngageApr 15, 20171 votes

Q reach is too far (think morgana binding)

brush didn't need a nerf.

shield should be popable but still apply a lesser slow effect if popd.

daisy regen was OP, now its nonexistent, would be better as a utility bot than a damage threat in the team fight, should have to build ap for daisy to be monsterous.