A minion stand aside feature where allied minions will actively get out of allied champions way. Therefore champs with nonunit collision or ghost still can run through enemy minions but your ALLY MINIONS wont actively get you killed. Simple plan, but highly effective.
Every up vote brings this idea that much closer to riots eyes, you can save lives on summoners rift all for the low low price of 1 up vote.
Pika Fox84 votesBad idea. Anything that allows you to travel through allied minions freely is bad, as it gives a massive buff to lane bullies and ranged champions who can just sit in the minion wave and force the weaker champ completely away.
Minion block is annoying, but extremely important for game balance.
Not Fade Away39 votesDon't disagree, but I think most people's issue with the current behavior is that too often you get stuck in a wave and die due to being unable to move whatsoever. It's not like you can even see this coming - minions just suddenly move/change focus in a random fashion so it's not like you can even re-position your champion before this happens.
CaptainAntiHeroz10 votesDon't disagree, but I think most people's issue with the current behavior is that too often you get stuck in a wave and die due to being unable to move whatsoever. It's not like you can even see this coming - minions just suddenly move/change focus in a random fashion so it's not like you can even re-position your champion before this happens.
Yeah this is the biggest problem tbh like "im suddenly completely surrounded by my own minions"
TTvRareChill1 votesFix minion focus too while we're at it I keep getting robbed of last hits.
Annie Grim2 votesyet they kinda did this with master yi's ultimate... making it so that he can pass through things... like minions.
Pika Fox7 votesyet they kinda did this with master yi's ultimate... making it so that he can pass through things... like minions.
His ultimate is an ultimate, not always active, and not at level 1.
PvP4Penta3 votesBut what about champions such as fizz who have an ignore unit collision passive that is always on and is level one? Do we have to give him a new passive?
fifek9004 votesyeah Fizz and Kassadin would require a new passive
Pika Fox3 votesBut what about champions such as fizz who have an ignore unit collision passive that is always on and is level one? Do we have to give him a new passive?
Fizz is designed around that in his kit. Other champions are not. Fizz isnt even a lane bully, and is melee. His matchups are all almost exclusively ranged, and the few melees also outrange him.
pizzapochette1235 votesWhat if we nerfed these said lane bullies and ranges champions to compensate for it
8Belthazor82 votes[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yrjUEsiM,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-22T21:16:15.076+0000)
Bad idea. Anything that allows you to travel through allied minions freely is bad, as it gives a massive buff to lane bullies and ranged champions who can just sit in the minion wave and force the weaker champ completely away.
Minion block is annoying, but extremely important for game balance.
My biggest issue isn't the block itself, it is the interaction among champions and minions. Block should force the champion to move left or right then past the minion in that way. Instead, the champion often goes back and forth, left and right at least 3 times before it finally chooses a side and passes the minion. This isn't normal, it is just bad programming.
TTvRareChill1 votesNerf Lane bullies and whatever else you were saying
ChocolateMist21 votesThis would allow, say Yasuo, to stand in the middle of a Wave and zone you off of it. Besides this would be abused in the early game by moving waves around before they even get to the lane.
Caitlyn FTW12 votes[deleted]
Annie Grim2 votesthey could always make the minions have like an invisible wall that minions can't pass through
Smarugula2 votesWhat if this new solution didn’t affect minions’ true position, and they still focused the same targets they would have, regardless, and once you move past them, they slide back into their original position?
Eedat18 votesI don't think this is necessary. Just remove unit collision with allied minions. This stand aside feature just seems like it would be abused for wave manipulation like creating freezes whenever you want or reversing a pushing wave etc etc. Sounds like it would create quite a lot of problems when there is much simpler solution without negative side effects
Leetri8 votesThat would be a gigantic buff to ranged champions, they'd be able to freely dip in and out of minion waves. Skillshots that don't go through minions would get a massive nerf as well, since you can just stand slightly behind a minion. Bigger champions could deny farm by standing on cannon minions. Smaller champions could be basically invulnerable by standing inside a super minion. There's a lot of negative side effects to consider.
rtbf24762642316 votesyes just make it so when we move into a wave of minions they just slide out of the way
FilDaFunk8 votesThis would lead to wave manipulation, especialy early. No collision with own minions would be a simpler soution.
sed1 votesThis would lead to wave manipulation, especialy early. No collision with own minions would be a simpler soution.
The minions would re-align themselves while theyre walking to their destination after you move them though
LeagueOfNarnia8 votesWhat about allied minions move out of the way when champions are TAKING DAMAGE from ENEMY CHAMPIONS. . Basically like allied minions are like get out of the way let him run! And then as the allied minions make way for allied champions they run to damage the enemy champion chasing if they do. I think this saves the whole " people abusing and manipulating their wave"
Caitlyn FTW6 votes[deleted]
CaptainAntiHeroz5 votes[{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yrjUEsiM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-22T20:25:33.845+0000)
If they do what you are suggesting than they'd have to give up on the idea of being ghosted which is something I think they want to keep as much as I think it sucks
did you miss the part about only YOUR minions moving like MINIONS should, cuz i mean they are working for us if theyre minions. and enemy minions would still be the same
Caitlyn FTW6 votes[deleted]
floo2 votes[{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yrjUEsiM,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T21:41:51.443+0000)
Judging from my limited programming experience, what you are suggesting is really hard to code. Not hard as in making the code. It is hard in the sense of making a code that would make the minion do the right behavior without any fuck ups.
Try this, write an algorithm on a sheet of paper on how the minions should behave on cretin variables and then test it out and see what kind consequences those behaviors would have on the minions and summoner rift. I'll help you out to start:
- if a minion is near a champion, minion should move
- well, looks like I already made something terrible because if a champion is near a minion they will always move in a cat and mouse game
Hmmm let's try another one
- if a summer issue a move command near a minion, minion should move
- I can imagine many people trying to manipulate waves and abuse them by issuing move commands in a a cretin way to make the minions move as they please so I don't think this will work.
Of course my algorithms are a one line but it is hard to move to write another line because this problem fundamentally is hard. Hard because coding a behavior that wouldn't impact the game in a negative way seems impossible.
How about a check for 2 minions in certain range of each other? So far I haven't seen anyone get stuck in 1 single minion. This way it wouldn't have to be coded as a check for champions/summoners but inbetween minions. The only abusable situation I can think of is crowding at least 2 minions in a small space where they get stuck and do nothing but try to move. Very situational and likely to fix itself after some time though.
Caitlyn FTW1 votes[deleted]
floo2 votes[{quoted}](name=Relax I am noob,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yrjUEsiM,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T22:10:40.123+0000)
Sounds reasonable but you need more polishing to your algorithm. For example, how are you going to prevent waves manipulations? Or what do you exactly mean by 2 minions near each others? How near are we talking about because I think minions are always near each others.
I can think of a handful possible ways to abuse this and that could be solved with some brain storming but I always find myself thinking 'oh what about this and this.' This problem need such a hard work to solve. Mind you the an unexpected problems that you are possibly going to find once an algorithm is implemented.
Of course it needs polishing, it's just a general idea what could be a solution.
How should wave manipulation be possible if it checks for other minion units and not players? In larger crowds perhaps.. depends on the range.
Speaking of which, I'm not entirely sure. Can't really say "all champs should fit the gap" because it'll be hard with cho and such, but neither exclude them. (Even though imo and 6 stacks he shouldnt have much collision at all lul)
It should be experimented with. I think that's the best approach to make it feel good and not break the game when freezing larger waves.
Karito5 votesHaving to walk around minions (not through them) is important for game balance, however getting stuck is not. The best solution would be to just fix getting stuck. If this isn't really possible, then to make it consistent, there should be no minion collision. As a supplement to this, moving through minions could reduce movement speed (ala Garen E). This would accomplish nearly the same effect, but would still be a significant change.
RegrettableName15 votesI'm no expert on game balance as I am Bronze 4, but I think being able to push minions out of the way with a bit of effort (A mild slow or something along those lines) would be a good workaround.
Ifneth1 votesThat’s actually really smart. If you tell your champion to path through an allied minion that cannot move, then the minion is pushed back but slows your champion by 35%.
Sephibro5 votesMinion block is just ridiculous https://youtu.be/5owB7ybypLI
SiG DxD4 votesmy character usually gets cockblocked so hard that he either dies or takes 3 attacks before uncockblocking
matazaa3 votesJust make the collision area with allied champions only smaller. That way u could squeeze through them. Also they would have the same collision as they do now with allied minions enemy minions and enemy champs? Seems reasonable to do
Saint Leønidas3 votes*gladly upvotes
Modl Ryden l2 votesI would just make it so the minions collision isn't as big as they are now. You should be able to pass through minions sitting side by side.
I don't agree with the idea of pushing them aside when passing through them, that could cause more negative experiences than netting anything positive. For one it could affect how minions aggro or what they focus. There would also be a lot of room for bugs happening where players could abuse the minion pushing ability by pushing them back and causing easy lane freezes.
The solution should be a simple and elegant fix. Not something totally new and convoluted.
ihateyouallmuted2 votesThe most undervalued part of this discussion is how minions block other minions. Have you actually sat there, black & white screen, and watched super minions try to take down a nexus?
They. Don't. Attack.
A super minion will path back and forwards, get stuck in your minions, and just sit there, never once attacking a nexus turret.
Burhead062 votesat the minimum , even if they keep unit collision as is. they need to rework pathing. i cant tell you how many times the game decides that notmatther how many times i try to manually path around a minion or two , my character basically just buggs out and turns around over and over in place next to a minion or two instead of just walking around it. even if minion manipulation is a serious issue they can still work on player and minion pathing so they dont bug out next to eachother and just run on next to eachother like kids in a school hallway.
PedobearTheBeast2 votesWhile at first this sounds good, this has a few flaws.
First, you could do insane wave freezing, by standing in the way of minions at the start of a game and cancelling their auto attacks when you force them to move. While wave control is important in league, this seems rather unhealthy for the game.
Second, when going against matchups like Thresh, Morgana, Lux, Nautilus or anyone with a single target, skillshot spell that can end up with you dying, how would you be able to use your minions as cover, if they potentially walk away from you and leave you open? Alternatively, it could also be incredibly annoying if someone can just forces their wave toward someone. Not just because it can screw with skillshots, but imagine all the crap surrounding minion aggro.
Finally, what happens in situations where someone at the start of their game stands by the minion wave as it's heading to lane, and stops them from even getting past the first few towers?
Lawn Party2 votesOne of many broken aspects of the game. It still wouldn't be playable even if they fixed this.
WaterBear222 votesWhat if the game detected when your champion gets stuck (spazing about) then creates a small pulse to space out the minions. This way it only works when you actually can't move.
Seilleas2 votesThe problem is the minions change aggro for seemingly no reason whatsoever sometimes since few patches ago.
CaptainAntiHeroz2 votesThe problem is the minions change aggro for seemingly no reason whatsoever sometimes since few patches ago.
Riot programmed adhd into the minions and as the only thing the can really focus on is a champion, like honestly 1 auto and the minion chases you all the way back to tower sometimes. This really is a good point I hadnt thought about....
BlackFenox2 votesI like the idea someone else suggested of increasing unit collision between allied minions only so they have to be are far enough that a champ can pass through. Make this unique to basic melee minions only(not supers) and make it wide enough for champs to move through with being unable to completely use your own character. This solves many of the arguements against ranged having an advantage(they still will in some circumstances, but will be few and far between), not giving a flat out ghost ability when it comes to your own minions which would be an absurd buff to many champs, and also still letting lane bullies keep their all in, champs getting blocked by minions advantage.
This wouldn't be a "wall" as was a originally by the post I'm referring to as that would spaghetti code to many things(darius pull is first thing that comes to mind). Rather this would be a change to priority system of melee minions. Priority system would be a check when they are moving and finding a new target. If they are in combat with another minion, they continue combat. Once that minion dies and they are trying to a find a new target, when they move they cannot come within x range of another allied melee minion.
That check on melees only I believe would be a good middle ground, prevent champion wave manipulation, not give ranged a huge buff or nerf lane bullies, all this would really do ideally if prevent champions from getting completely stuck by their own minions
NateLazer2 votesGood idea but That would kinda nerf ghost effects tho
DEL1232 votesMaybe just keep collision on larger allied minions? and a small movement reduction if your walking through smaller allied minions? ( so it will still be considered some kind of collision but it wont completely trap and get you killed )
L9 Sololift2 votesI wouldn't mind dying to minions if it wasn't a major factor, but it happens nearly every game and also very often, though without dying, causes you to take additional damage, miss cs, lose trades, miss kills. It's a small problem with huge consequences and even bigger collateral for the game and the team.
CaptainAntiHeroz1 votes[{quoted}](name=L9 Sololift,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yrjUEsiM,comment-id=0031,timestamp=2019-06-26T13:26:08.776+0000)
I wouldn't mind dying to minions if it wasn't a major factor, but it happens nearly every game and also very often, though without dying, causes you to take additional damage, miss cs, lose trades, miss kills. It's a small problem with huge consequences and even bigger collateral for the game and the team.
well said