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CertainlyT should not be allowed to make another champion

freepointzs··198 votes·25,669 views

At this point it is entirely obvious that he is incapable of creating a champion who isn't a clusterf*ck of stats whose basic design pretty much goes contrary to any previous Riot statements on champion design and balance. Honestly tell me a single champion of his who has not completely broken the game at a certain point in time while having a kit that is overloaded to hell and back. Just look at his history.

Darius-Broke top lane on release and completely invalidated every single melee champion in existence. Had all three types of damage including a true damage nuke that refreshes on kill.

Zyra- was hotfixed immediately because she had a 60% win rate.

Zed- Dont even get me started on this champion. Mana less waveclear on an assassin with constant poke on top of all in potential while not being at risk at all.

Thresh- has yet to be unviable in his entire existence. Every single thing you could want in a champion was stuffed into his kit.

Yasuo- 0 cooldown mobility hyper carry with poke, cc, and a game changing basic ability that supports would kill to have. Just happens to be on a carry who wins with damage and utility.

Kalista- Look at ashe and varus and tell me Kalista isn't ridiculous. Those two utility carries pay for their utility with low end damage for carries on top of no mobility. Kalista is the most mobile adc in the game, has utility that rivals those two champions, and her rend gives her unmatched damage potential.

He can make a fun champion kit, I will give him that. But its been two years and he has yet to release a champion even remotely balanced. He over-stuffs every champion kit with too much things and it invalidates every other champion in its class.

300 Comments

Superdum38 votes

He makes champions that are fun and competitive to play, balance issues can always be changed. Stop whining just because they are strong on release

GigglingAngel44 votes

{quoted}

He makes champions that are fun and competitive to play, balance issues can always be changed. Stop whining just because they are strong on release

Like how they balance Lee Sin and Zed (two of some of the most competitively-viable and popular champions) all the time, right?

AerialBlade43 votes

Lee wasn't even made by certainlyT. Riot seems to have a bias towards Lee, but many other CertainlyT champs have been nerfed / gutted, and now they are very weak statwise, but have high potential. Zed was 'the most balanced assassin' 6 months ago. I remember that VIVIDLY. Now everyone whines constantly about the same shit when nothing changed from 6 months ago, except for other assassins being nerfed. Ugh.

GigglingAngel17 votes

{quoted}

Lee wasn't even made by certainlyT.

I was referring to the comment (which I quoted and highlighted) that competitive champions get balanced by the balancing team. They don't. That was my point. It had nothing to do with CertainlyT.

Zed was 'the most balanced assassin' 6 months ago. I remember that VIVIDLY. Now everyone whines constantly about the same shit** when nothing changed from 6 months ago,** except for other assassins being nerfed. Ugh.

You're very wrong. Mana nerfs happened. Sure, Zed wasn't touched. That's not the issue (kinda). The issue is that the majority of champions who rely on mana were gutted against champions like Zed.
Before, when they could keep up with him to an extend, it wasn't much of an issue. With the mana regen nerfs, they can't keep up with him and his never-ending energy, and that is the key issue here.

Imperial Japan3 votes

So you're saying that now all other champions have been gutted to hell that he should too?

Mandang031 votes

Can we please stop using this argument? Balance is inherently RELATIVE to the rest of the champions in the game. When one champion is much stronger than the rest of the options, it deserves looking at, regardless of whether he's OP or the rest are UP. And, as Riot's explained many times before, you introduce less powercreep by balancing the one champion that sticks out rather than everyone else who isn't that champion.

Kobila200014 votes

{quoted}

Can we please stop using this argument? Balance is inherently RELATIVE to the rest of the champions in the game.

Yes, thank you. Someone who understands the basics of this game.

Diostukos31 votes

{quoted}

Lee wasn't even made by certainlyT. Riot seems to have a bias towards Lee, but many other CertainlyT champs have been nerfed / gutted, and now they are very weak statwise, but have high potential. Zed was 'the most balanced assassin' 6 months ago. I remember that VIVIDLY. Now everyone whines constantly about the same shit when nothing changed from 6 months ago, except for other assassins being nerfed. Ugh.

Janna was also considered shit-tier, and then worlds happened. Now everyone wants her nerfed.

Some things do change, mana-regen was nerfed, DFG removed, a lot of ap Midlaners were nerfed.

Slamurai Jack6 votes

{quoted}

Lee wasn't even made by certainlyT. Riot seems to have a bias towards Lee, but many other CertainlyT champs have been nerfed / gutted, and now they are very weak statwise, but have high potential. Zed was 'the most balanced assassin' 6 months ago. I remember that VIVIDLY. Now everyone whines constantly about the same shit when nothing changed from 6 months ago, except for other assassins being nerfed. Ugh.

I do think that all of the Zed QQ is massively overblown, but saying nothing has changed in the last 6 months for zed is ridiculous. The huge mana regen nerfs at the start of season 5 were an indirect buff to Zed, and to all manaless champ that happens to lane against mana based ones. But it is a particularly strong buff to manaless champs that also have strong, safe waveclear, i.e.Zed .

SmokingPuffin19 votes

Don't blame designers for weaknesses in balance. That isn't their job.

Blame designers for making kits that are unbalanceable (e.g. Olaf).

Kitten of Evil20 votes

Speaking of unbalanceable: Poppy

SmokingPuffin9 votes

Certainly true. The worst design Riot has in the game.

Kitten of Evil7 votes

I say that, but I'm going to ride her as far up as I can until she's reworked.

LankPants12 votes

I'd say that Kalista , Yasuo and Thresh are all completely unbalanceable.

SmokingPuffin13 votes

Thresh has tons of balancing levers. Easy to keep him in competitive play without being OP. Just look at the last year of balance in practice -- Thresh is always around, but he's not dominant.

Kallista has a good chance to be unhealthy. Her core mechanic is just incredibly strong against melee. You can probably get her to 50% win rate in competitive, but she'll remain antifun for a significant subset of the player base.

Yasuo seems like he should be hard to balance, but in practice the only problem you'll have is that he's a ridiculously high skill floor champion. That will inevitably lead to sucky in bronze, strong in diamond. Anyway, he has quality levers for balance -- in particular, his shield mechanics are just super important and will easily gate his game if he becomes OP.

LankPants13 votes

Thresh has tons of balancing levers. Easy to keep him in competitive play without being OP.

He has too many things on his kit plain and simple. One of my favourite quotes about Thresh is that he has 3 ultimate abilities on regular CDs and 1 regular ability on an ultimate CD. You could completely remove major points from his abilities like the bonus damage on E or shield on W and he would still be playable. To me this is what defines an over kitted champion. Thresh shares this trait with all of the Certanly T champs from Zed onwards for sure and you can make some arguments for Zyra's W passive and Darius' E passive, but I tend to view them as more OK.

Yasuo seems like he should be hard to balance, but in practice the only problem you'll have is that he's a ridiculously high skill floor champion. That will inevitably lead to sucky in bronze, strong in diamond. Anyway, he has quality levers for balance -- in particular, his shield mechanics are just super important and will easily gate his game if he becomes OP.

I'm just going to point out that the exact inverse of what you say about Kalista can be applied to Yasou.

Her core mechanic is just incredibly strong against melee.

Yasou's core mechanic makes him super powerful VS ranged champs, when he's 'balanced' or overpowered, to the point of being near impossible to lane against as a champ who relies on projectiles. (in other words any ranged champ but Kayle ) This problem is further exaggerated by his stupidly high amounts of mobility making it impossible to land a skillshot on a good or even just decent Yasou. To make this even worse when Yasuo fucks up both his wall and his dash dodges he has a shield to eat the damage you put on him anyway.

It's also worth noting that all 3 (less so for Thresh but still there) share the problem of having way to much Mobility/Utility/Damage in combination. When a champ is un-balanceable it tends to be due to these 3 factors being overtuned without an actual weakness in one of the areas.

SmokingPuffin10 votes

You could completely remove major points from his abilities like the bonus damage on E or shield on W and he would still be playable. To me this is what defines an over kitted champion.

I think Thresh works great. He's a good competitive pick, but not overbearing. He has clear windows of strength and weakness. He can outplay and be outplayed. I see no reason to be concerned about him taking over the game; he's been in a good balance state for at least a year now and no changes to that seem imminent.

Yasou's core mechanic makes him super powerful VS ranged champs, when he's 'balanced' or overpowered, to the point of being near impossible to lane against as a champ who relies on projectiles.

Yasuo's dash tells you exactly where he's going to be. Easy to land projectiles against him.

LankPants9 votes

I think Thresh works great. He's a good competitive pick, but not overbearing. He has clear windows of strength and weakness. He can outplay and be outplayed.

If he was balanced he wouldn't be one of the most picked champs in the game, both competitively and casually. You can make an argument that casual players play what they find fun but I personally find that 90% of the community just mirrors pro picks with very little idea of why they're doing it.

As for the pros, they just play whatever's the most bullshit thing available to them. The fact that they have been playing Thresh constantly since his release as either the top or second support pick up shows that he is not only overbearing but also considered by the professional scene to be either the most or the second most bullshit support champion in the game.

I see no reason to be concerned about him taking over the game;

I see reason for concern in letting ANY champion take over the game. If you create a situation where only one or two champs in a role are viable it creates a very shitty game for anyone who mains another champion from that role as well as just making the game in general more stale.

Yasuo's dash tells you exactly where he's going to be. Easy to land projectiles against him.

A few points on this. Projectiles have travel time, Yasou's dash doesn't last long and he can recast it immediately meaning he can very easily dodge all but the quickest projectiles. Even if he can't dodge he still has his wall. Even if he can't wall he still has his shield. It feels shit to miss so much poke because he's hyper mobile and because of his wall just to have the poke that does land mitigated by his shield.

Kingsgrave4 votes

{quoted}

If he was balanced he wouldn't be one of the most picked champs in the game, both competitively and casually. You can make an argument that casual players play what they find fun but I personally find that 90% of the community just mirrors pro picks with very little idea of why they're doing it.

As for the pros, they just play whatever's the most bullshit thing available to them. The fact that they have been playing Thresh constantly since his release as either the top or second support pick up shows that he is not only overbearing but also considered by the professional scene to be either the most or the second most bullshit support champion in the game.

I see reason for concern in letting ANY champion take over the game. If you create a situation where only one or two champs in a role are viable it creates a very shitty game for anyone who mains another champion from that role as well as just making the game in general more stale.

A few points on this. Projectiles have travel time, Yasou's dash doesn't last long and he can recast it immediately meaning he can very easily dodge all but the quickest projectiles. Even if he can't dodge he still has his wall. Even if he can't wall he still has his shield. It feels shit to miss so much poke because he's hyper mobile and because of his wall just to have the poke that does land mitigated by his shield.

His kit being desirable by many people and players of any skill level isn't bad balance, its exceptional design. The fact that every support before he was released was overly niche was problematic. He was the first support actually designed for the role and it shows.

If you just nerf anything thats played a lot you would ruin the game. It sounds like thats all you want to do.

Why is Thresh played? He brings a lot of great things to a team that people really want from a support. Ok cool. Should we nerf him to the ground because of that? Should we just take away things he brings to arbitrarily make him worse and just create a new Thresh that is somewhat less well designed just for the sake of "diversity?" No, I don't think that would ever be a smart move.

VDc0zCqe0w10 votes

{quoted}

His kit being desirable by many people and players of any skill level isn't bad balance, its exceptional design. The fact that every support before he was released was overly niche was problematic. He was the first support actually designed for the role and it shows.

STOP SAYING THIS BULLSHIT, i ALWAYS see this bullshit somewhere repeated by some random dude, IT, IS, FALSE

i'll copy paste what i've said to the other guy

problem is Thresh has got major faults in design: he is a kill lane support (he was at least, he had to be nerfed to be remotely bearable), so he should be weak to poke right?

wrong, because he still has sustain in form of a shield (not that big, but wanna compare to no-sustain, no-shields Leona?), and poke in form of enhanced AAs passive on E

to top it, he also somehow has got free AP passively while having a 100% AP scaling ult, and infinite scaling (a thing a support should NEVER EVER have) thanks to his passive

i don't think he's OP right now, but do i think his kit is extreme bullshit?

yes i do

so Thresh is EXTREMELY HORRIBLY DESIGNED, he has got TONS of passives that he SHOULDN'T have

imagine a Janna with free AD on her E, free CDR on her Q because reasons, does that sound retarded?

that's Thresh whole kit

Brenticus123 votes

Um, what the hell? Thresh is extremely susceptible to poke, is heavily CD Gated and can barely poke without getting some in return ever since his AA nerf.

I don't think you've ever played Thresh seriously if you think the shield is something you can just use to block poke. The shield is minimal and is part of one of his more powerful utility spells which has a high CD which makes it easy to all in his ADC at that point.

Thresh has alot but no sustain. It's why poke lanes are very effective against him.

And his "Infinite scaling passive" takes a fuck load of time to scalr especially since you can't just go off and farm and in turn his early game stats are worse off for it.

VDc0zCqe0w5 votes

god bless he IS weak to poke, but he still has somehow a completely random shield that he shouldn't have, Leona is weak to poke in the same way, has she got a shield?

no she hasn't because she's a kill lane support and shouldn't have it

yes he can barely poke now, guess why? BECAUSE HE GOT NERFED

that's the whole point: he has a totally retarded kit that had to be nerfed with numbers, else he would have had everything and more

he had 475 AA range, explain me the point of that?

same AA range as Janna while having an AA enhancer? wtf is this? thank god it got nerfed to 450 (and it should be 400)

explain me the point of having an AOE nuke with 100% AP scaling (again, IT GOT NERFED, and now can damage only 1 opponent), extreme base damage along with free AP from passive and tons of damage from Q (wich ALSO had the AA enhancer at release, WTF WAS THAT???)

the whole reason Thresh is, mind you, BARELY acceptable nowadays is because he can't make use of his retarded kit (he should all-in but he can't because they gutted his damage, he could sustain but he can't because it's too low, he could poke but he can't because of the range nerf), so the WHOLE point of picking Thresh nowadays is to make use of the extremely retarded Q and W, exactly like post-nerf S2 Blitzcrank

so you got a nerfed to shit champ that is pickable only because he got an utterly retarded kit: 100% healthy i'd say

Brenticus126 votes

I think you're getting a little demented from your hate of champions that do more than your average Warwick.

Alot of champions are overpowered on release and even further than that.

Xin Zhao, Irelia, Kassadin, LB etc. etc. are some examples. Some like Xin and Talon have very straightforward kits yet were considered OP and were subsequently nerfed. Kassadin, Irelia, LB etc. all had what made them OP removed or nerfed (harshly in Irelia's case) but they still see tons of play.

Why don't you whine about them? You don't because all you want to do is the same as on Reddit, circlejerk over the hate for whatever is at topic, in this case, CertainlyT who legitimately wants to make fun kits. If you've ever asked Zirene, he'd tell you that he has some of the weirdest yet brilliant ideas that you'd never think of. His ability to think up of great kits is undermined by the community crying about how OP everything is when the Balance team doesn't take into account how the kits synergizes with everything.

He legitimately wants to make the champions feel more fun.

Yasuo FEELS like a wind Samurai, running from his past restlessly, Thresh FEELS like a warden of death, sentencing all who are snared by his hook to death, Zed FEELS like a ninja, able to get in, kill a priority target, and get out. Zyra FEELS like the embodiment of plants, able to command plants to do her work. I could go on with how all their kits, even Darius' which is very boring, synergize with their lore and make you legitimately feel like the character and gives you the fantasy you want when you pick them up.

Leona does have a defensive steroid that lets her effectively lvl 3 cheese more than any other kill support. Thresh has THE lowest armor in the game, even lower than Gnar which has the lowest possible base armor stat (After Thresh). Thresh has to collect 64 souls just to get as much as armor as Mini Gnar.

His AA range is low, lower than most ADCs and supports so they can kite backwards when he tries to harass and harass him back and he generally ends up worse off even if he does get the E passive proc off because he takes more damage than they do.

And again, things that were nerfed are insignificant to this discussion. Please stop bringing it up. You don't seem to have a problem with Leona who also has an AOE slow which can be a stun very easily, has better defensive stats till late game if Thresh has been soul farming, and is better at locking down carries than Thresh is.

And he is definitely very healthy to the champion pool as he is right now.

Minrog4 votes

{quoted}

CertainlyT who legitimately wants to make fun kits.

You don't seem to have a problem with Leona who also has an AOE slow which can be a stun very easily, has better defensive stats till late game if > Thresh has been soul farming, and is better at locking down carries than Thresh is.

Leona goes all in. She lands her AOE stun and dies while soaking up as much of the enemy team's damage as she can.

Zed goes all-in, blows up a squishy, jumps 4 screens away. Sometimes, if they have bought a QSS or Zhonya's, they might survive so they can B.

Yasuo goes all-in, blows up a squishy or maybe the whole enemy team if there's another knock-upper, and then jumps back to a minion and puts up a windwall to block all counter engage.

Sure, CertainlyT wants to design fun kits that can destroy whole teams without counterplay. As long as the player who's using them is skilled, if you don't Queue Dodge it's a misplay, tsk tsk. We've seen that a bunch of times. Then he's like, yolo Kalista. She can't blow up a guy and jump 4 screens away but she's like Nidalee with 2.5 AS and 350 AD with an infinite stacking Rend. Hrm, I wonder why CertainlyT didn't overload one of her skills with a Heal spell, maybe he's saving that for his next AD Carry.

LeBlanc sucks as a design, too. She has since she came out and she doesn't have 9 passives and 7 Active abilities. Imagine if CertainlyT had designed her (or Lee Sin).

Kobila20003 votes

I can't believe you're getting downvoted for saying things that are common sense, but I guess with Thresh's huge pick rate there's bound to be plenty of his mains who don't want to face the truth. Also I love how "It's not a problem if he takes over the game" is a moot point considering he already has.

Skias7 votes

Thresh is a stronger, more durable and reliable Blitzcrank.

Partholonian4 votes

His hook is actually much worse though. It comes out slower (in startup time, and IIRC, in missile speed as well), pulls the target in much slower, doesn't always pull the target all the way to him, can't pull them through most (any?) walls... the ability to go in like LeeSin only partially makes up for this, because it puts Thresh wherever the enemy wanted to be instead of putting the target wherever Thresh wanted to be (and thus, like Lee, he often can't afford to take it).

Thresh has to use his Q and his E together to get an effect that is often still inferior to Blitz's Q alone (let alone his QE, which is monstrous if you land it).

Kobila20003 votes

I'm sorry, Thresh in good balance state? He and Leona are all that is picked at high elo, they are both literally in 30% of the games.

SmokingPuffin1 votes

For solo queue balance, champions with high pick rate aren't a problem unless they are also winning tons of games. Leona is maybe a problem champion for solo queue, but Thresh is actually a losing champion.

A champion being very popular, despite not winning tons of games, is usually an indication that champion is good design.

Kobila20005 votes

Oh my god... You're one of those people who think Lee is balanced, aren't you?

Kingsgrave4 votes

{quoted}

He has too many things on his kit plain and simple. One of my favourite quotes about Thresh is that he has 3 ultimate abilities on regular CDs and 1 regular ability on an ultimate CD. You could completely remove major points from his abilities like the bonus damage on E or shield on W and he would still be playable. To me this is what defines an over kitted champion. Thresh shares this trait with all of the Certanly T champs from Zed onwards for sure and you can make some arguments for Zyra's W passive and Darius' E passive, but I tend to view them as more OK.

Does he have too many things or does every other champion before him have too little?

No matter how you nerf Thresh for the most part he will always be a good pick. Thats the mark of great design. Most of the other supports are getting there too which is awesome. They could have easily just followed what the people on these boards say and just nerf him into the ground and take away things he had, but they didn't. They just trimmed some fat here and there and honestly he is pretty healthy currently.

VDc0zCqe0w7 votes

{quoted}

Does he have too many things or does every other champion before him have too little?

he has too many things, plain and simple, if you want to buff everyone to his level, support would win the game 9 on 10 games

wanna powercreep Annie?

allright, +100 base damage on Q, +200 base damage on R

that sounds fun right?

Kingsgrave7 votes

{quoted}

he has too many things, plain and simple, if you want to buff everyone to his level, support would win the game 9 on 10 games

wanna powercreep Annie?

allright, +100 base damage on Q, +200 base damage on R

that sounds fun right?

Just giving champions more damage wouldn't put them on Thresh's design level, it just makes them arbitrarily better without having any real reason why they are better.

Power Creep and Design Creep are different beasts entirely. The former is almost always bad and the latter is a lot less bad and more manageable in general.

VDc0zCqe0w4 votes

trust me, and i'll stop then: you don't want every support to have a Thresh-like kit

you don't want, because you would lose every single game your bot lane loses

Kingsgrave6 votes

{quoted}

trust me, and i'll stop then: you don't want every support to have a Thresh-like kit

you don't want, because you would lose every single game your bot lane loses

That happens the majority of the time anyway

Mandang014 votes

Can we blame the designers for putting the balance team in a tough spot by loading champs with paragraph-long skills/passives? I understand CT's not picking the numbers, but designing the skills he does AND THEN giving them the passives they get to boot - I think he's at least somewhat at fault for their balance issues.

(Not to mention the class-warping skill distribution he opts for - Yasuo gets a utility spell supports would kill for, Kalista too (two?), Thresh gets everything a support could ask for short of a heal. I think this is even more harmful than any number imbalances, for the precedent it sets.)

Kobila200010 votes

And you pretty much explained the problem with CT's designs. I do think the other designers could simply take his ideas and work them into several champions. The lantern is a great idea. Just not on someone like Thresh. His passive is great too. But again, not on his kit. All his designs needed, was someone competent to say "You know, maybe this is all too much on ONE champion"

SmokingPuffin1 votes

Paragraph long skills are fantastic for balance team. You get lots of levers to push and pull. It's really hard to balance someone with a simple kit like Annie. Balance team was tearing their hair out when they discovered that support Annie was OP, because they had so few knobs on the design. They eventually decided to add a new stun scaling to her passive, i.e. they added more text to fix the problem.

The problem with the paragraph long skills is with burden of knowledge for players, especially lower level players. Yasuo's kit is just impossibly complicated; even experienced players on release had no idea what the point of all those passives was. Took months of playtesting to figure out the intended counterplay.

Mandang07 votes

Lots of levers is great only if you're willing to turn some of the levers off. Once Riot loads a kit (like Thresh/Yasuo's), they almost never unload the kit short of a complete remake.

Also, I think Annie's problem is how binary her skills are rather than how short the description reads. As some examples to explain what I mean: I think Ez/Cait's kits can be written just as concisely as Annie's, yet I don't think they would be a problem to balance because they don't involve instant-cast, hard-CC nukes. Likewise, I think old Karma was terribly designed and bound to remain that way due to her complicated kit (dependence on your own health, allies' health, allies' positioning, enemy positioning, your positioning w/ tether, etc), though that kit left lots of room for levers and counterplay. I think the more conditionals you load a kit with, the more often that kit is finding itself in a situation where it's not balanced optimally (was Karma's cone heal balanced for 2v2 laning or 5v5 fights? If balanced for one, how did it feel for the other? Yasuo's ult would be another, more recent example, with large power variance based on team comp) I'm struggling to come up with an example of a complicated kit that's not a balance drag, tbh.

Lastly, like I said before, I take more issue with CT's Oprah-level generosity with giving other classes support spells and fear the precedent it sets for other champion designers who now need to design kits that both compete with CT's swiss army knife champs and still don't invalidate the older champion pool. When Yasuo sets the bar for melee carry at double crit + extreme mobility + wind wall + AOE CC gapcloser ult (*with %armor pen), what are you gonna do with the next melee carry's design?

Leaf of the lake33 votes

clusterf*ck of stats

With the exception of darius, this is actually the exact opposite of what certainlyT's designs are. CertainlyT's designs include a lot of mechanics, but they're never just a ball of stats. If they're imbalanced, that's the job of the live balance team to fix. The job of the designer is to make a fun gameplay experience, which CertainlyT has certainly succeeded in doing, many times over.

EfficientDynamo7 votes

I agree with you, but it should also be pointed out that the balance team can't really balance an ability's utility. Things like wind wall or thresh's lantern are either there or they aren't, and numbers tweaking can't really touch their core use.

EDIT: These abilities can be tweaked, but they are much harder to tweak due to the utility (vs. #-related) uses they bring.

Lord Dusteon28 votes

...just because a champions numbers needed tuning does not mean the champion is bad. Zyra was overpowered, numbers wise when she was released, but that does not mean her kit was bad/broken.

Troy24262127 votes

That's a cop-out. No champion should have no weaknesses, or be able to have everything in their kit that their specialty could possibly want. Let's take a look at one, Yasuo. Is he overpowered right now? No. Is his design still horrible? Hell yes. His theme is cool, he concept could work, but right now it's awful. Highly mobile, has defense from wind wall, small amount of crit gives him god like damage, snowballs well, he's relatively safe and has AoE CC AND AoE damage.

I didn't go over his entire kit, just the role-specific ones. Holy sh*t. I don't care how you change the numbers, when a champion has everything they need and low weaknesses, they will be oppressive or underwhelming. That's not number tuning, that's acknowledgement of the fact that the design won't work.

Narasimha5 votes

Highly mobile, has defense from wind wall, small amount of crit gives him god like damage, snowballs well, he's relatively safe and has AoE CC AND AoE damage.

So basically.... Tryndamere. But without the inability to die, a self heal, natural crit, and an actual escape. So essentially, Yas is a weaker version of Tryndamere.

Guess we've been complaining about the wrong guy after all.

EfficientDynamo8 votes

I believe the main difference as to why Yasuo generates so many more complaints is because he is so much more mobile in a less predictable fashion. When Yas is cutting back and forth through your minions or teammates he is much harder to hit with a skillshot when compared to Trynd, who can only spin in a straight line once on a decent cooldown.

AerialBlade4 votes

Nice one there, anyone can list a champion's strengths and capabilities and stamp it as 'horrid design'. Yasuo is in a balanced state right now and probably more well designed than some shit like malzahar, warwick, or heimerdinger.

EfficientDynamo9 votes

What is your complaint about Malz? He has no mobility, his silence is hard to hit, and his ult (while powerful) stuns himself and makes him bait for your teammates to feed on.

Z468 votes

Along with it, his abilities only do magic damage. Magic resistance makes Malzahar a very useless mage. If Malzahar builds AD, literally all of his damage comes from his Voidlings, and his spells (while still effective against a squishy thanks to their respectable base damage) are pitiful as a result.

On top of being kitable, his damage is oriented for nuking someone and only that someone. Even a 2v1 can be extremely troublesome for Malzahar. To add on to that, he's pretty damn easy to gank if he isn't obsessed with warding.

With extremely clear and exploitable weaknesses to counteract both his utility and single-target destructive ability, Malzahar is easily one of the most balanced champions in the game.

Neo Cyrus13 votes

"Number tuning" LOLOLOL!!

GET REAL!

They CAN'T be balanced with their kits existing as they are and no matter how badly they are nerfed they will always be super annoying to deal with.

Narasimha7 votes

I don't remember the last time I heard anyone complain about Zyra. Or even Yasuo anymore.

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3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

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