How do you actually lane against Malzahar

MCBiggah99·Sep 25, 2015·3 votes·3,212 views

Without suggesting specific champion picks, and without the suggestion of buying QSS. How can I adjust my actual playstyle to win lane against this permapushing midlane Yorick.

39 Comments

WarlockLawSep 25, 20153 votes

If you can kill him pre 6 do it a lot. Champions like Fizz and Zed excel in this. Post 6 however a competent Malzahar can't be 1v1'd by anyone that isn't already fed.

If you can't kill him pre 6 then practice roaming, Malzahar can't roam that we'll so he is likely just going to push your tower instead of following. Running tp can help with this as it allows you to pressure easier and safer.

If you can't really do either just try and farm and call for ganks. Malzahar doesn't have an escape and his ult leaves him super vulnerable to everyone else.

Earl EulrichSep 25, 20153 votes

donßt go near minions that are about to get killed by his e to allow him free harass. If you don´t have a favourable matchup just farm it out and go roam/wait fpr your jungler if he pushes too aggressivly - malz is a lanebully, but if you don´t let it go to your head most of them can´t teamfight very well and will lose the game later on if not fed.

3TWarriorSep 25, 20152 votes

he's a mage designed to shut down assassins so if you're playing an assassin, good luck

try using a ranged mage to play against him, but he's not designed to have a bad laning phase or a bad team fight phase, only to be easy to kill when his ultimate is gone

or more specifically, he is designed as the ultimate duelist. So long as there is only one target, he will win

masterdragon481Sep 25, 20152 votes

He is very safe in lane, but without flash, he should never be able to lane his ultimate on you (unless you're melee but then you got counterpicked and you're in for a rough game regardless).

Just pick someone that is safe and can farm well (from a safe distance). Since Malzahar's R is longer range than his E, he shouldn't be able to flash E R you without a lot of difficulty/mispositioning on your part. Building health is also effective to surviving his burst even if you do get caught. And a malzahar without flash needs to play VERY carefully due to his lack of escapes and ability to only pin down a single target. With this in mind, having a hard CC on your jungler and on your mid laner is incredibly useful; without it, Malzahar can just turn on the champion with the hard CC and trade 1 for 1 in a gank. Having hard CC is also useful for later in the game during teamfights.

Watch his E and don't be anywhere near it when its on a low health minion. Another tip regarding his E: it costs a lot of mana and has a decently long cool down. But, for the first several levels, and until he starts to pack on the AP, he really relies on his minion wave (and his voidling) to do enough damage that he doesn't have to case multiple spells. Manipulating the minion wave/ instantly killing part of his wave severely limits the pressure he can apply.

Personally, I would recommend taking Xerath. His waveclear is very good and VERY long ranged, and Xerath scales better into late game (imo) than malzahar does simply because of how hard he is to reach. Add on the fact that a fed (or farmed) Xerath can chunk a squishy for around 1/3 of their health in the late game and you don't really have a disadvantage after laning phase.

Above all, remember that you aren't likely to beat a malzahar in lane (unless you have a very strong jungler), simply because he can play too safe. Instead, pick a champion that also scales well and can play safe. Do not, under any circumstance, pick Katarina or Yasuo into a malzahar.

In teamfights later in the game, Malzahar has some problems. He ultimate is canceled by hard CC, so having some and saving it for malz ulti is VERY important. If the ultimate can be dealt with smoothly, his W becomes a minor annoyance and his E has a long enough cool down that he can only effect one opponent at a time (unless he starts getting kills...but I digress). His Q remains a slow, telegraphed skill shot that while powerful isn't the hardest to avoid in the game. And considering his relatively low range and lack of sustain outside of ROA he starts to have problems.

Sire HippingtonSep 26, 20152 votes

malz will max e first, so keep track of when he usese it and which minion it is on. If you go for a trade while E is on cd and no 'inffected' minon is nearby, u should win it - unless he has an enraged voidling by his side, those beasts are vicious. The main probl vs malz is that it's rather hard to not get killed by his lvl 6 flash/ignite all in, unless you play haper save, which probably sets you just as behind as a quick death... however, malz has to commit alot for that, just keep your jungler nearby if malz reaches 6(this s a teamgame after all, which is probably main problem for soloQ), especially a jungler with cc that can cancel his ult often can turn it around.

Else, try to play save, malz is hard to use in lategame teamfights, so unless it's a really well played malz(and most really aren't), you have good chances on outscaleing him even if he gets an early lead on you. Also, getting early mr(maybe for an abyssal later, or a grail) often allows you to survive his flashult.

He's a lanebully, it's his job. If you come out ahead in lane vs him, it's not really because you did a good job, but rather because he did a bad job, or you had help from your jungler.

4ManVotedAgainstSep 26, 20152 votes

Here is how I do things against Malzahar... Galio + item 3512

FarRockBFSep 25, 20151 votes

Same way you lane against a Heimerdinger ...play really safe and be more valuable to your team late game.

ninjaIRL Sep 25, 20151 votes

What do you mean by more valuable? More valuable than Malzahar or be more valuable than your lane phase? :p

yay nibbersSep 25, 20153 votes

Malzahar is actually useful outside laning phase though

ninjaIRL Sep 25, 20154 votes

And he scales well into late game with his W allowing him shred the frontline.

ninjaIRL Sep 25, 20151 votes

QSS and counterpicking are his biggest weaknesses though. Very limited without those.

You can counter shove his permapushing if you have the damage and abilities. You can also just roam and get kills somewhere else. Mobility champs do well because they can dodge his Q and W. There's not much you can do with E and R other than CC him and/or be invulnerable.

"delayed" CC can kick him out his ult. Like and Ahri charm, Pantheon stun, wukong ult etc.

KONO RUBICK DASep 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=ninjaIRL ,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yfhIYGPM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-09-25T12:23:45.473+0000)

QSS and counterpicking are his biggest weaknesses though. Very limited without those.

You can counter shove his permapushing if you have the damage and abilities. You can also just roam and get kills somewhere else. Mobility champs do well because they can dodge his Q and W. There's not much you can do with E and R other than CC him and/or be invulnerable.

"delayed" CC can kick him out his ult. Like and Ahri charm, Pantheon stun, wukong ult etc.

item 3139 actually gives 80 AD

ninjaIRL Sep 25, 20151 votes

What?

KONO RUBICK DASep 25, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=ninjaIRL ,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yfhIYGPM,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-09-25T12:29:31.956+0000)

What?

if you are zed you can rush it for example 80 AD isn't that bad

ninjaIRL Sep 25, 20151 votes

You confused me because I didn't even mention Mercurial Scimitar.

yay nibbersSep 25, 20151 votes

Get ganks. That's all you can do when you don't use any of the only counterplay there is against Malz. Malz is made to have an oppressive lane-phase that is countered by having the superior range you get with certain picks (there's a bunch to choose from).

Lauricella3Sep 25, 20151 votes

dodge his q and go ham pre-6

SuchSwagSuchweedSep 25, 20151 votes

His early game is so god damn bad. Just go all in him, when he gets his first item or get level 6 you should play more safer because he is able to use his full combo and you can't dodge it he ults you.

FarRockBFSep 25, 20151 votes

If thinking for example, Annie vs Malz. He will make her life miserable; but if she farms safely under tower late game she will be much more useful during team fights even with slightly less CS.

ninjaIRL Sep 25, 20151 votes

Also, Malz can't kill 2 people coming for him, unless he's already really fed.

Because if he tries to combo one the other will just CC him.

WorgenflorgenSep 25, 20151 votes

pre-6 Malz is weak and his skills cost a lot of mana, so he can't use them liberally.

Abuse this, don't stand near his space aids, and you'll be fine.

ninjaIRL Sep 25, 20153 votes

pre-6 malz is not weak. If the malz pulls out a voidling he can hurt. Landing a Q disrupts the whole thing. Malz pre-6 just can't really get a kill or chase very well unless the enemy hands themselves to him in a silver platter. A lot of malz's early levels damage come from voidlings. It deals below half of his base AD at lvl 1, it can really hurt.

Old Man TeetoSep 25, 20151 votes

Well without suggesting champions...

if you champion has good wave clear, get items that let you do that for a LONG time.

if your champion has bad wave clear, get Ludens for added clear, if your AD you're probably fucked in which case rush a Merc Schimitar and try to all-in him, most AD's have good all-in potential. If you know you're against Malzahar from champion select and you lack wave clear etc on that champion, plan accordingly, Malzahar level 1/2 isn't that powerful since he can't easily get a voidling out and doesn't have good push yet, try to get a small advantage here (even 1 potion advantage would be good) Avoid trading when he has an active voidling, it does devastating damage, if he E's the wave go aggressive as it's the ability he maxes first and if you can deny the hop by forcing his attention on defending himself, you can deny his early push and mana sustain.

Careful when he hits 6, shit goes downhill regardless of how you were doing due to his ability to kill you with his reel regardless of your champion.

Don't fight him now unless he doesn't have ultimate or you have QSS already. If your AP and just wave clearing, continue to do so and look for opportunities to help your team.

For the early game though you'll probably suffer. Malzahar pushes, you need ganks or to be able to kill him/match his push. If you can't do one of those three, you lose lane and pray your team holds through to pull you back out.

Sakura MirageSep 25, 20151 votes

If you are ad rush a hexdrinker

The Sword SaintSep 25, 20151 votes

His range is low and he has no mobility, so stay back and let him push up then 2v1 him with your jungler. As long as each of you have at least one cc he can't ult either of you, and can't escape.

InphernalSep 25, 20151 votes

-Dodge his abilities (which are very slow and easy to dodge, if he uses pool then just dont stand in it like a rock) -beat him up early game before he puts multiple levels into his spells -tenacity -dont stand next to allied minions with Malefic Visions on them, dont stand next to allies if YOU have malefic visions on you and youre gonna die -poke him down with faster spells/mobility -Spectre's Cowl -hes a short ranged caster so any burst damage that can be inflicted without retaliation is great (leblanc, nidalee, galio, kassadin, etc.) -if youre melee make sure not to let his silence hit you if he casts it on top of himself when you jump him

If he's one of those dick malzahars who just sits back and farms with a catalyst, then roam and gank other lanes or get your jungler to gank. If he ults your jung or you, then just kill him with the other guy since malz is super weak after casting his main burst combo.

and i gotta say it anyway, QSS/hexdrinker is a great prevention to being ulted

SexyTaylorSwiftSep 25, 20151 votes

-Push the wave hard early. -Watch him run out of mana trying to keep up in waveclear, or lose cs not using mana -Dodge his easy to dodge Q and W. -Stand next to minion with E on it early. This will put it on you, but since it's early it doesn't really do much damage. You just completely took out his early wave clear. I usually do this the first 2-3 waves. -After the first 2-3 waves, DO NOT stand next to minions with E on them. -Once your jungler has a few levels, let Malz push to you. He is extremely immobile so ganks should result in either flash or kill. If flash, gank again in 3 seconds. If kill, rekt him. -Buy Qss. -Roam to other lanes, as you are probably playing a better roamer.

SerevasSep 25, 20151 votes

Honestly the only way to win lane against Malz is to either outrange him and bully him out of the lane frequently, or to have your jungler gank the crap out of him repeatedly.

Typically you want to survive the lane, not win it as that's very difficult. Your aim should be to farm as much as possible, try to shove him back, and roam.

AtheosisXSep 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Without suggesting specific champion picks, and without the suggestion of buying QSS. How can I adjust my actual playstyle to win lane against this permapushing midlane Yorick.

Without talking about specific champs no one can give you any real advice. All you'll get is extremely general and vague suggestions. I'll just list champs that are a pain for him to lane against:

Annie Chogath Ezreal Fizz Leblanc Lux Syndra Velkoz Xerath Ziggs

BronzoidSep 25, 20151 votes

you can't win lane against him. If you could there would be no reason to pick him because he is nullified by 1 item.

Kitten of EvilSep 25, 20151 votes

Play someone who pushes back pretty hard, and stay away from dying minions when they have Malefic Visions on them, so they don't jump to you (because at that point it's free damage on you). Build MR. Have your jungler gank. Malz is great 1v1 but because he pushes so hard he's very gankable. Poke him from range.

LadyRenlySep 25, 20151 votes

Just suck it up and rush QSS. I did that even as a yasuo and was thankful I did. You can just sit on it, though and proceed to work on your shiv. Malz is immediately going to q+e+w+r+ignite the moment he has a voidling ready.

One Bind MorganaSep 25, 20151 votes

play gp against him and auto win cuz gp e is dumb as fk

xl Kirito lxSep 25, 20151 votes

If you're ranged, or can safely kill off his Voidlings, do so. The Voidlings are incredibly important to his pushing potential, otherwise he has to expend a large amount of mana to shove the lane.

Stay out of his range. Dropping his full combo takes 1s or so, and at close range. And don't stay in lane while you're low.