Hey so im seeing a lot of "nerf supports and support item threads" so i want some clarification.

Paroe··2 votes·407 views

When people say "ADCs arent a problem supports are" youre talking about enchanter supports like Karma Lulu Soraka Sona Ivern Rakan Janna with items like item 3107 and item 3504, right?

Not supports like Alistar Braum Leona who lack the strong EHP itemization and scaling enchanters have?


In all seriousness can we just make "support gold income" as efficient as the laners farm and get rid of this whole "support budget" thing so that support champions can be balanced like real people and not slaves to the almighty marksman?

Like.... Get rid of item 3401 item 3069 item 3092 and replace it with something like; Visionaries grasp: 450g Unique active: Warding (contains 1 charge, refills at the shop or on kills/assists) Unique passive: Shared glory: Minions who are killed by an allied champion grant you gold as well.

This can build into sightstone, and from sightstone it can build into the Eye items but with different build paths and better stats. All of these items would have shared glory instead of their "unique" gold generation passives. item 2303 = loses its gold per second and spoils of war. Builds out of item 1031 item 3801 item 2049 and has 400HP/40 armor instead of CDR. item 2302 = Loses its gold per second and Favor. Instead, gains "rapid regeneration" which increases mana/HP regeneration by 1% per 5 seconds while out of combat. Builds out of item 2049 item 3028 item 1006 item 1006 and has the same stats except for CDR. item 2301 = Loses its gold per second and Tribute. Builds out of item 2049 item 3113 and item 1026 and has 80AP + 5% movement speed instead of CDR.

7 Comments

BladeSteel1 votes

That item would make them even more of a slave because you could only get gold IF THEY CS CORRECTLY. If they don't you won't get as much gold, meaning 2 members of your team are now behind in gold. with the current items, you get gold per 5 and something YOU CAN CONTROL (mostly).

Paroe2 votes

{quoted}

That item would make them even more of a slave because you could only get gold IF THEY CS CORRECTLY. If they don't you won't get as much gold, meaning 2 members of your team are now behind in gold. with the current items, you get gold per 5 and something YOU CAN CONTROL (mostly).

The amount of gold you get from support items is tremendously less than the gold you get from waves. It would be a net buff for everyone and make it so youd have the same budget as everyone else; no more of this "overloaded cheap items" that are aimed towards a lack of AP in favor of stronger shields.

If enchanters want to be strong, they need to get the AP for it like everyone else. The changes i outlined above would make it possible for supports to GET that AP so they CAN scale as intended without the need for badly designed items like redemption, the current locket, and ardent censor.

BladeSteel1 votes

Yes it is more, but now bot lane becomes deny the other adc cs more than ever. Late game adc's become obsolete. late game supports become obsolete. The entire bot lane is deny the other adc cs, because then you are hurting 2 people, making the game a 3v5. You make it so supports need to get ap. you make it so they get the gold through their adc's cs. now they are both useless.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

Yes it is more, but now bot lane becomes deny the other adc cs more than ever. Late game adc's become obsolete. late game supports become obsolete. The entire bot lane is deny the other adc cs, because then you are hurting 2 people, making the game a 3v5. You make it so supports need to get ap. you make it so they get the gold through their adc's cs. now they are both useless.

Is that really such a bad thing? Riot wants games to be made or broken by the marksman and they want games to be sub 25 minutes.

The suggestion i outlined above makes supports main item - the sighstone - build into a much stronger item than now and would allow us to balance the problem enchanter supports AS MAGES instead of "theyre supports so they need a super low budget" that gave rise to the supremecy of %heals and shields.

[{quoted}](name=Final Spark Lux,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ybNYrr6O,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-21T05:44:33.548+0000)

Giving "supports" as much gold income as other laners would make this game even more snowbally, and games would be even more of a stomp one way or another, since at that point anyone can support now. No thanks. It's bad enough now adays a long game is considered 20 minutes. I'd like to be able to play for more than 10 before they're at the nexus already. Really stupid idea.

It would allow tank supports to come online faster and it would allow mage supports to come online faster. The change is a win-win for everyone involved and lets us remove the HUGE amount of shield/heal power that has led to the current meta of "PROTECT THE GODMARKSMAN". I had a game on an alt where the ENTIRE enemy team sans ADC were enchanters. Twitch+janna+lulu jungle+sona mind + karma top. They bought all shield/heal power items. and the ONLY reason that comp worked at all was because shield/heal power > AP and they just had to stall because their items are so cheap and cost effective. By giving EVERYONE access to more gold and removing shield/heal power, you force enchanters to buy AP or utility items. A change which needs to be made.

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

That item would make them even more of a slave because you could only get gold IF THEY CS CORRECTLY. If they don't you won't get as much gold, meaning 2 members of your team are now behind in gold. with the current items, you get gold per 5 and something YOU CAN CONTROL (mostly).

I agree, the support role isn't going to be fun, if their income is that reliant on the ADC doing well. regarding on how an ADC CS.

But the ADC's expertise in CSing is also the reason why you can't take the old formula and buff the gold gen on that. Because the actual gold deficit will vary depending on skill. (At least once, did a mid lane complain about me having APC level gold.)

Also, the bot lane dynamic would likely change too much. If my gold depended on the ADC, I would never be able to rely on a support, who couldn't take over lane. And if I took over lane, All the ADC would have to do, is buy the same item to keep up. It wouldn't even be a massive gold sink as OP seems to present this as a starting item. So the best Duo lane would probably be who ever can shove lane the fastest.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Giving "supports" as much gold income as other laners would make this game even more snowbally, and games would be even more of a stomp one way or another, since at that point anyone can support now. No thanks. It's bad enough now adays a long game is considered 20 minutes. I'd like to be able to play for more than 10 before they're at the nexus already. Really stupid idea.

Done251 votes

You could make it like the current coin/bandit mastery and just reward gold on enemy minion deaths that you don't cause.

More from Gameplay

More by Paroe