Out of my last 20 ranked games, the better jg won in 19 of them (high diamond elo)

Anime Fizz·Oct 17, 2019·2 votes·924 views

It was just bothering me so much that i had to go ahead and count the games one by one.

Every single game i had a good jungler on my team i won, while every single one i had a bad one i lost, EXCEPT FOR ONE GAME where both junglers sucked and i got extremely fed and managed to solo carry.

Ive literally had games were we had 2 out of the 3 lanes winning hard their own lanes turn into a 15 min loss because of junglers (their jungler ganks ganks ganks until the winning lanes falls behind while ours ints, easy game for the other team).

This is fine right guys? Is this being a 5v5 team game a meme now? Why not change the name of the game to league of junglers? Literally no other role matters, every single game in high elo snowballs into a auto win/loss by 20 minutes and junglers are the strongest role in the map in those 20 mins, its just stupid.

6 Comments

needHymnOct 17, 20194 votes

As a jungler, I frequently see your type. You think you know what a "good" jungler is. Let me guess, "good" junglers are knights in shining armor, who hold your hand all day, and tell you that everything will be all right, especially since they also win your lane for you. And any jungler who farms is "bad". Mmmhmm. So you flame the "bad" jungler who is farming. No, that's not enough! Not enough at all. Can't stop with just flaming them. How dare they farm, when you need hand holding! So you go steal their krugs. And oh look, they're on the skuttle, and their smite isn't up (you TABBED just to make sure). So dash over to the river and steal the skuttle right out from under them. Yep. For sure, that'll teach them a lesson not to farm when they ought to be holding your hand. And next thing you know, your jungler is so pissed, he comes to your lane, pings for you to engage, and then walks away to let you die, while flashing his mastery symbol. And now you're convinced that you had the bad jungler.

Anime FizzOct 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

As a jungler, I frequently see your type. You think you know what a "good" jungler is. Let me guess, "good" junglers are knights in shining armor, who hold your hand all day, and tell you that everything will be all right, especially since they also win your lane for you. And any jungler who farms is "bad". Mmmhmm. So you flame the "bad" jungler who is farming. No, that's not enough! Not enough at all. Can't stop with just flaming them. How dare they farm, when you need hand holding! So you go steal their krugs. And oh look, they're on the skuttle, and their smite isn't up (you TABBED just to make sure). So dash over to the river and steal the skuttle right out from under them. Yep. For sure, that'll teach them a lesson not to farm when they ought to be holding your hand. And next thing you know, your jungler is so pissed, he comes to your lane, pings for you to engage, and then walks away to let you die, while flashing his mastery symbol. And now you're convinced that you had the bad jungler.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Good jungler = ganks lanes, creates pressure and doesnt int lanes.

Bad jungler = the opposite of the above

If you're farming over ganking you're literally playing the game wrong, and if the other jungler is playing correctly you'll cause your team to lose the game in 10~15 minutes singlehandedly.

Its simple as that, riot dumbed down the role a lot so its very easy to see when you have a good or a bad jungler.

needHymnOct 17, 20193 votes

Seen your type. You don't respect any activity that the jungler might do, except ganking. Anything besides ganking is trash. You care only about lanes, and how often your jungler ganked them. You think the role is dumbed down to that, and you flame and soft int any game where your jungler doesn't adhere to your belief about that. And then you wonder why you lose every single game where your jungler didn't do what you wanted him to do.

Super SandmanneOct 17, 20192 votes

Sounds like a big load of confirmation to me. What determines whether or not a lane can be ganked is lane vision control, summoner spells, the lane matchup, how pushed the target is, whether the enemy jungler is deep warding/counterganking, whether my laner is taking trades or passive farming and how much cc and damage we have between the two of us. Of all those factors, a jungler can affect maybe two of them, so it seems quite silly to measure a jungler's effectiveness by how much they gank.

needHymnOct 17, 20191 votes

The outcome a gank is logically 33% the jungler, 33% his ally, and 33% the enemy. But in my experience, any enemy who does everything necessary to prevent their own death from a gank, is almost 0% likely to die from one. Almost every time anyone dies from a gank, it's because they allowed it, or didn't take the necessary steps to prevent it. So I'd argue that it's more like 20% the jungler, 20% his ally, and 60% the enemy who is being ganked. But then you have to factor in some luck, especially luck that relates to vision and route timings. And next thing you know, we're down to less than 20% of the outcome of the gank is in the hands of the jungler. And yet, you're asking him to walk all the way to your lane and put himself potentially behind, for an outcome that is mostly outside of his complete control.

Every jungler wants to rank up. And you can't rank up if you are not in direct control of the outcome of your games. But there are other things that are much more in a jungler's direct control. Getting neutral objectives is something they can achieve much higher odds in. Counter jungling or killing the enemy jungler is also something they can better control. And even farming, that horribly unpopular thing called farming junglers, can be highly effective if the jungler has a good grasp of teamfighting logic and knows that they picked a champ that can win teamfights.

But it never looks nearly as impressive, to see your jungler with just 2 dragons and good CS, and the enemy jungler with 8 kills or assists. But what you don't realize is, if 60% of the outcome depends on the people being ganked... the fault for the fact that the enemy jungler is so fed is mostly... well... you're fault. You didn't take the necessary steps to prevent your deaths. And even if your jungler had ganked just as many times as the enemy jungler did, it's likely he wouldn't have achieved anything close to the same results. Ganks rarely change the outcome of a lane or a game, they usually only accelerate that outcome. If the enemy jungler got off so many successful ganks, odds are, his allies were going to win all those lanes anyway, even if he hadn't ganked at all. Likewise, if your jungler had ganked more, it likely wouldn't have changed anything, because you would have still been the same feeder that you always were.

it's the responsibility for every player to win their own role to the best of their ability, and not expect anyone else to win their role for them. And to be completely honest, the role of the jungler isn't to win lanes. They've been asked to do that by fussy laners. During laning phase, it's the role of the jungler to farm the jungle, get rift herald, get dragons, etc. Stuff that's actually in the jungle. And when everyone is grouping as 5, then everyone LEAVES their lane roles, including the jungler, to group wherever.

It would be like if the jungler was to start the dragon or rift, simply cuz he was walking past it, and then dies. Then he flames his allies and soft ints the rest of the game, because they didn't all leave their lanes and come help him do his job, when he needed help. Junglers who act like that are annoying. It's great that he was trying for an objective. But not great that he was so needy. Sure it's great if his allies had helped him. And sure, it's great if the jungler also ganks and helps his allies. But the laners may not want to leave lane on a whim, especially if cs is crashing into their turret. And junglers may not want to come to a gank where the outcome they don't feel is strongly enough in their own control. So from my experience, the best is that every player try to be less needy, and try not to tell other players what to do.

SyrileOct 17, 20191 votes

While I would not agree that you can reduce your chance of dying to 0%, you can definitely make it very hard to gank (depending on ELO of course).

JGs cannot gank all of the time. The JGs that do gank constantly lose the game for their allies. Period.

I main mid. I am very, very, very, very commonly 1v2 in lane because I play extremely aggressively. I rarely have games that I am not forward in my lane unless I am trying a new champion out or something like that.. and those would never be ranked.

However, when a JG likes to set up a tent and camp me, I never complain about the camp. I smile. Specifically, I type in chat (Going to be camped. Punish elsewhere) or something like that. Grab dragon or Rift Herald, gank other lanes, etc. Or, point out when they are weak and counter-gank them to kill both.

JGs that gank too often become very predictable and lose objectives if the laners play anywhere near intelligently.

Excepting a JG to live in your lane because you are incapable of feeding or because you are incapable of winning lane yourself is on you.

That does not excuse a JG that does nothing. The meta definitely pushes early game JGs to be stronger right now but that does not mean they are tied to ganking your lane to make sure you win lane.

If they are applying sufficient pressure on the map, be it outfarming the enemy JG, invading, taking objectives, etc, you should be happy. The problem is when they gank your lane and you have 30 minions there and they question mark ping why you could not help them.. or when they int'feed your lane or when they walk in to leech up exp or steal farm. Those are bad JGs. Much as the JGs that refuse to get objectives and just gank all game. Kills do not matter if you lose your Nexus. KDA is irrelevant compared to a Win.