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"support" design has been complete garbage lately

Anime Fizz·11/30/2019, 5:54:29 AM·70 votes·15,150 views

Yuumi, pyke and now senna... 3 complete nightmares to balance, 3 unfun champs to play against, 3 overloaded champs, 3 champions that are the complete epitome of how new champs SHOULD NOT be made.

Did you guys at riot forget to how to make healthy support champions?

Whatever happened to braums, namis, you know, champs that actually play as SUPPORTS rather than a 0 income adc/mage/assassin? Its just really unhealthy for the bot lane if you guys keep pumping those abominations non stop, its the worst thing ever to see senna support actually outscaling an adc in terms of damage with 0 farm and then watching her have massive utility at the same time, thats when they dont abuse her as an adc and get items even earlier because you know, its healthy for a champion with scaling range to fking start the game at 600 (SIX HUNDRED!) range at lvl 1, senna should have like 525 range at lvl 1 if new champ balance wasant such a joke (yes, scaling champs with passives like that SHOULD BE WEAK EARLY GAME AND NOT LANE BULLIES).

Just like solo lane pyke was absolutely aids before they nerfed half of his kit and aoe (and its still quite annoying). Yuumi i dont even need to talk about as you have already seen tons of pros even saying "why in the world was this champ made".

Please stop riot, start being reasonable again with new champions, this is too much and its going to completely break the game balance very soon enough.

41 Comments

only luciano11/30/2019, 10:28:49 AM39 votes

I noticed this right away. The recent support champs are straight up better than the old ones.

Sona Lulu Janna Soraka Nami can get one shot in this meta so riot made this Yuumi

Leona Thresh Braum Blitzcrank are boring and get no kills so riot made this Pyke

Ashe MissFortune trolling if you pick them support so riot made this Senna

BBKong11/30/2019, 2:55:13 PM14 votes

I support Pyke's IDEA, but the implementation is so infuriating.

Hearing "support assassin" I was like "oh? this could be a cool one-of champ. An actual AD support." Then I saw his kit, said looks decent but the R might be bullshit. Turned out the passive/W is the most bullshit part to me. I love his E and the hook is fine, but the ult and W/passive healing are so toxic imo.

But I could stomach it! There are annoying champs. It's fine, it's new and cool, not a stupid kind of new.

Then we hear about Yuumi, I say "ooh an enchanter? Been a while, could be cool."

Her W is just stupid. I don't mind anything else but the W, which is the entire concept of the champ, is just absolutely unfun in every way.

THEN we hear about Senna. Another AD support. Pyke is no longer as unique, only the "assassin support" not only the "ad support".

I never liked the concept of "marksman support" in general. People complain about facing 2 ADCs in a team when they pick an ADC top, now the team can have 2 ADCs without giving up a meta toplaner slot? And her winrate/banrate/pickrate are all insanely high.

And there's a new AD support item line so I only assume it'll get worse.

Unique champions have a place in League, they get lots of fans. But it doesn't have to be a completely unique champion that's "eNtIReLy unLIkE AnYTHinG wE'Ve eVeR sEeN!!" every damn new release. Champs that are generally simple with one or two unique but not game-breaking part of their kit are the best sort of champions in the game. I get that we have a lot of champs so it's harder to make those, but the new ideas they're having just aren't as cool as those champs in my honest opinion.

TheDelighted11/30/2019, 6:27:59 PM9 votes

Whoever saw pyke and thought "yeah, that seems balanced", is out of his mind. I'm all for assassin supports/ adc supports/ whatever supports. HOWEVER, supports had utility/cc as their main contribution to a fight rather than damage. The latest 2 supports Senna Pyke also provide damage (not as bursty as an assasin or adc, although that is arguable), which they ended up abusing, and overperforming in literally all other roles of the game rather than their intended role. That is until riot understands the unbalanced crap they threw at us and nerfs the fck out of the champion (see yuumi), so it's questionably average in pro play and definitely under-powered in all other queues .

What Im concerned the most, is that riot continues to make the same mistake 10 years now. They value champion complexity over champion fairness. You could have morg's q instantly kill you. Or have nid's Q deal the damage it use to do, and still these champions would be more balanced than what we have now.

Lystrates11/30/2019, 2:06:49 PM8 votes

Yuumi is not a problem even remotely. If anything she needs a buff. (along with Sona and Nami who have started to fall behind because of the hyper damage/CC creep). I am VERY glad when the enemy support is a Yuumi, Sona or Nami. It means I can destroy their lane easily.

Senna is different, but you can easily play around her. I dont shake in my boots when i see a Senna opponent at all. To be quite frank, people need to learn how to play around her kit. She is not that hard to beat.

Pyke is cancer of course. THAT design is toxic AF.

I am a bit worried about people complaining about Yuumi or Senna in the Forums because that simply reduces the credibility of the forum.

The only Supports that people should be complaining about are Pyke , Nautilus , and Blitzcrank Each time they get lucky and their hook connects during laning is basically an automatic kill (assuming competent players). Those Supports are genuinely toxic and need changing.

Verxint12/1/2019, 6:50:46 AM4 votes

It's not just support. I think every release in the last year has just been awful design.

Shmeeve11/30/2019, 8:18:30 AM3 votes

[deleted]

Mcmxcix11/30/2019, 9:46:23 AM3 votes

Braum is "Healthy" lmao, NO!

LanceTheMighty11/30/2019, 12:00:35 PM3 votes

Solo lane pyke was more healthy than support pyke.

xDogMeatx11/30/2019, 9:18:37 PM3 votes

aphellos support next

blindasleep12/1/2019, 1:46:01 AM3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fisYzc2T,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-30T05:54:29.768+0000)

Yuumi, pyke and now senna... 3 complete nightmares to balance, 3 unfun champs to play against, 3 overloaded champs, 3 champions that are the complete epitome of how new champs SHOULD NOT be made.

Did you guys at riot forget to how to make healthy support champions?

Whatever happened to braums, namis, you know, champs that actually play as SUPPORTS rather than a 0 income adc/mage/assassin? Its just really unhealthy for the bot lane if you guys keep pumping those abominations non stop, its the worst thing ever to see senna support actually outscaling an adc in terms of damage with 0 farm and then watching her have massive utility at the same time, thats when they dont abuse her as an adc and get items even earlier because you know, its healthy for a champion with scaling range to fking start the game at 600 (SIX HUNDRED!) range at lvl 1, senna should have like 525 range at lvl 1 if new champ balance wasant such a joke (yes, scaling champs with passives like that SHOULD BE WEAK EARLY GAME AND NOT LANE BULLIES).

Just like solo lane pyke was absolutely aids before they nerfed half of his kit and aoe (and its still quite annoying). Yuumi i dont even need to talk about as you have already seen tons of pros even saying "why in the world was this champ made".

Please stop riot, please stop, i know the truth hurts but please, start being reasonable again with new champions, this is too much and its going to completely break the game balance very soon enough.

There has always been a shortage of players with a true support mentality, so autofilled players complained endlessly about always being autofilled to a role they don't enjoy. So Riot started doing things they thought would appease carry players that were autofilled support not realizing that you can't appease away a mindset.

Total Violation12/1/2019, 2:06:25 PM2 votes

So you prefer it if supports were just one dimensional blood banks, shield generators and meat shields, slaves to the ADC and not having enough damage or utility to do aything on their own? Did you honestly find the Ardent era and one-sided champions like Sona and Soraka fun to play against?

I'm not going to comment on Yuumi, since she fills the top description perfectly, but Pyke and Senna were REVOLUTIONARY designs for League. Both of them re-defined bot lane and brought something unique to it, staying away from the "tradition". One of the reasons i grew to dislike the designs of champions like Sona and Yuumi was because their kits scream "slave", since they can never handle a lane by themselves and they are only viable in one role. Well i am against this. Champions SHOULD BE diverse. Champions SHOULD BE strong on their own and have the power to handle themselves in a situation. And i fully welcome mutilple euqally viable builds and new, original and bold mechanics instead of just the usual click-to-heal and click-to-shield.

Next up i want to see a Moira/Whitemane type of drain DPS healer, or a Heimerdinger-like champion with shielding capabiities. Or maybe a tank supportwho has a high damage offense mode and a battle armor defense mode. This is an era in which Riot is being creative, bold and daring with their support designs. And i stand by this 100%.

Pyke and Senna were only the beginning.

Nea10411/30/2019, 11:49:28 PM1 votes

Don't forget that Yuumi got over-nerfed, because those competent people couldn't fix their own mindless and completely wrong design.

ChaddyFantome12/2/2019, 1:07:03 AM1 votes

Senna isnt a nightmare tho balance. She has been out for a week. He hasnt even been touched yet, an once they do, I'm sure she will be fine afterwards.

Pykes problems are his passive and Ulti.

Yuumi is fine rn imho.

Dorans Pants11/30/2019, 4:13:43 PM1 votes

I would say they have been trying to open up the support role for the people who play regular league of legends (top, mid, adc, jgl) compared to the bastardized version support players play. To be fair, it takes a while to get used to all the things you are no longer allowed to do or have like gold, exp, cs, wave management, dmg, snowballing and overall carry potential, so it makes sense to introduce more support champs whom playstyles are reminiscent to those of real champs.

in the light of Riot´s past efforts to prob every role into a high dmg-high mobility early game carry role, it is surprising that they decided to nuke supports back into the stone age, but maybe it was just to reassure the community that Riot is still fully committed to pigeonhole supports as the only team-oriented position, while every other role gets to play as selfishly as it wants. In the end, the one 1v5 penta wouldn´t look as fancy if there wasn´t a soraka spamming W and acting as a 7th item for the carry, so maybe that´s why we still need our good ol´ do nothing on their own supports.

And maybe we can witness a renascence of enchanters, because who hasn´t missed standing back spamming shields/heals on cd and holding on to the one cockblock spell to counter engages while being hunted down by every assassin in the game, so thrilling.

If Riot didn´t design their game so that dmg outweighs everything else maybe supportive playstyles wouldn´t feel like shit, but instead they just exacerbated the ancient problem of dps role being more popular than support roles by absolutely crippling support capabilities so that "flashy plays" which is just a roundabout way of saying insane burst and mobility are not interrupted.

It is just baffling how much better it feels to play a supportive role in other games compared to here, where you are deliberately held down not only gameplay-wise but also through the lack of stats with the only balancing factor being that the opponent support is just as fucked as you are.

When most players only stick to "true supports" when they are basically forced to and jump ship as soon as an alternative presents itself, then maybe it´s not the fault of the alternative, maybe it´s the role.

PzyXo12/1/2019, 9:41:33 PM1 votes

Honestly, Pyke is nothing compared to Senna and Yuumi. He doesn't heal full hp like Yuumi. And he doesn't deal THAT MUCH DAMAGE FROM 1 AA AND Q IN LVL 1 LIKE SENNA. I would prefer playing against Pyke all day instead of Yuumi or Senna. He still deals damage but Brand does too..

EhtOstäf11/30/2019, 9:46:34 PM1 votes

What they should do is to abolish SUPPORT completely. Just double the minion wave bot lane. So, we can TWO champions per team who will have good income. It will be chaotic but it will be planned, organized, chaos. Unlike the current situation.