What if i want to pick a melee champion?
"Just always pick second so you counterpick bro"
What if im the first pick? As a melee champion i cannot "outplay" him as his whole kit is point and click and now he can 1 shot you in the silence duration with the overbuffed spin + conqueror (making him full stack conqueror with 1 spell in a second was probably the dumbest balance change ive seen in a good while).
Nerf him.
Trias00024 votesI feel the same whenever I play against Nasus.
Nithke2 votesThe thing is that Nasus is different, he's not strong on his own, the reason why Nasus is annoying is the reason why i completely stopped playing Nasus, my main, because you totally depend on your jungler. You get shit on so hard past-6 that unless you get ganks you get outscaled, so basically, playing Nasus, If your jungler camps top, before lvl 6 you won the game, if he doesn't you lost.
Garen is different because his stupid regen and damage makes him some kind of standalone champ that can do well with or without jgl help. Basically he's not on the weak side. And for Nasus I hate him in this current meta where you need to spam ping ur jungler for help or literally stop taking waves that are further than your turret range (and even that is usually not enough, when elise decides to tower dive level 3, great fun 10/10 wud do it again)
SpecterVonBaren21 votesNo, the reason people hate Nasus is because if you're lanning against him then you are on literal dog sitting duty and have to be in charge of dealing with him for the whole game unless you can destroy him in lanning phase to the point that he is useless.
Reksee6 votesAnd if you leave him alone for 5 mins he starts dealing half of someone's health with one q while running at mach 2.
Ackelope3 votesthe damage part i agree with, but nasus is not and has never been a fast champion. He has no inherent movement speed boosts in his kit, with a pretty high base movement speed at 350, but he also has no mobility spells. Unless you're referring to the movement speed he gets from phage/triforce (which he doesn't even build every game) or the nasus players you play against take ghost, he isn't going to be especially fast.
what I will concede is that his W makes it seem likes he's fast, because it's such a giant slow, and in a 1v1 scenario he's basically impossible to kite if he gets close enough to press W on you.
brb skt calling1 votesIf you can't kill him, then go do anything else anywhere on the map and he can't contest you.
Trias0002 votes[{quoted}](name=Nut Collection,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tEQ8n1wj,comment-id=00040003,timestamp=2019-10-12T05:52:15.744+0000)
If you can't kill him, then go do anything else anywhere on the map and he can't contest you.
Yeah, he'll just free farm a gazzilion stacks and take all my top towers in no time.
Vonyalo12 votesWelcome to league
Jar Jar binks l11 votesRead the Jaggernaut class. They're not meant to be defeated in 1v1, they are kited.
Same goes for Illaoi and Darius, u don't fight those unless ur a 1v1 champion bruiser like tryndamere fiora or Jax
Anime Fizz30 votes[{quoted}](name=DEMACIAA BABY,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tEQ8n1wj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-11T16:11:19.926+0000)
Read the Jaggernaut class. They're not meant to be defeated in 1v1, they are kited.
Same goes for Illaoi and Darius, u don't fight those unless ur a 1v1 champion bruiser like tryndamere fiora or Jax
Both illaoi and darius have skillshots/spells that can be dodged and played around.
So if i pick a melee with some mobility i CAN try to do something against them, they are still favored but its not completely hopeless, if i manage to dodge darius Q and E and i either kill him before he get to 5 stacks im favored in the fight, just like im also favored vs illaoi if i fight her away from her tentacles and dodge her Q/E. This is not even mentioning on how garen is also probably the tankiest champ of his class (neither darius or illaoi have defensive steroids, only their missing hp heal) so his damage has no business being this high.
Now outside of garen literally Qing a minion by a mistake you cannot avoid his whole kit.
Garen should never ever be as strong as he is now because he is a complete statcheck champ, being a "juggernaut" is not a free pass to being overpowered.
Mihalikb10 votesAt this moment Garen is not by any measure tankier than Illaoi or Darius.
The W shield is complete garbage past lvl 3-4 and it's on a 20 second cool down.
Now let's tone down the hyperbole a bit. Unless he is massively ahead he will not kill you in a single QER. Especially not in lane.
You don't fight Garen as you'd fight Illaoi of Darius. You fight Garen like you'd fight Renekton or Pantheon.
As in... Short trades. It is really that fucking simple. But unlike Renekton or Pantheon he has no gap closers and no stuns or slows.
Nyarlathοtep13 votesAs in... Short trades
And immobile champs can disengage because...? Immobile champs lack mobility to run away. Cc kinda helps but because he has tenacity on his w its largely ineffective.
Also, rene LOVES short trades. His main form of harass is literally, e, w q and e to safety.
LightswornLance3 votesImmobile champs can duel with him, so I assume you are talking about mages? I hope mages get destroyed for going top lane like they should.
Nyarlathοtep6 votesImmobile champs can duel with him, so I assume you are talking about mages? I hope mages get destroyed for going top lane like they should.
Tanks can duel garen? What? In which world? Garen has a silence (to impede their spells), dmg reduction and tenacity, shred and true dmg execute. So do pray tell in which world someone like ornn or sion can duel him.
LatetotheRace3 votesWith conqueror and his new E, no, tanks cannot not duel him little buddy.
LightswornLance4 votesBy immobile champions I mean other juggernauts. Are tanks really supposed to be able to 1v1 anyone? No they are supposed to live long enough in a teamfight to apply their cc multiple times.
LatetotheRace3 votes" Are tanks really supposed to be able to 1v1 anyone? No they are supposed to live long enough in a teamfight to apply their cc multiple times."
Ok, first off this isn't season 4, this isn't what happens anymore. Second off, juggernauts are just glorified drain tanks at this point and of terrible design as a whole.
LightswornLance3 votesSo then the tanks are there for their damage? Then they are bruisers. Juggernauts are pretty good design in my opinion as they punish poor positioning very well which is why they stomp low elo.
Verxint4 votesI have >500k on Darius, Garen is way tankier
Romans VI XXIII3 votesWRONG. Garen can not heal in combat. Only Tanky thing Garen has is 5s of damage reduction every 20s. Darius can heal % HP every 5s
Worst JG Wins1 votesI have >500k on Darius, Garen is way tankier
Not anymore dude. They took away basically all of his tank stats and replaced it with R dmg.
Yets42402 votesThe R that lost 25/50/75 base damage, an up to 10% missing HP damage at rank 3? His ult lost a significant amount of damage. Over 14% of its base and 25% of its %missing HP damage.
SpaghettiVase5 votesIf they aren’t meant to be defeated in a 1v1 then why the fuck is top lane a solo lane?
Romans VI XXIII2 votesCause 90% of top lane is champs that r strong in 1v1s.
General Esdeath 2 votes[{quoted}](name=DEMACIAA BABY,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tEQ8n1wj,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-11T16:11:19.926+0000)
Read the Jaggernaut class. They're not meant to be defeated in 1v1, they are kited.
Same goes for Illaoi and Darius, u don't fight those unless ur a 1v1 champion bruiser like tryndamere fiora or Jax
Laughs in 
PB4UAME2 votesYour first, third, eighth, and ninth champion listed are juggernauts, the rest are skirmishers (aka duelists) and divers who also tend to be quite strong 1 vs 1 classes, albeit with much greater mobility and target access than jugs.
General Esdeath 3 votesYour first, third, eighth, and ninth champion listed are juggernauts, the rest are skirmishers (aka duelists) and divers who also tend to be quite strong 1 vs 1 classes, albeit with much greater mobility and target access than jugs.
When did I say they're juggernauts? These are champs who can beat Illaoi and Darius 1v1. Welcome to top lane, where nothing makes sense.
Saezio11 votesWho the fuck thought it was a good idea to make an exception to ALL OTHER CHAMPS and let him stack more than one stack of conq with his E?
That's straight up stupid. Remove that for sure. And make the R magic damage. Why is it always true now? Did they at least nerf the numbers by a good amount?
Yets42408 votesThey removed the villain mechanic entirely (so that's -12%max HP true damage on a full combo) they nerfed the base damage at all ranks, and they nerfed the %missing health damage as well.
PB4UAME3 votesDownvoted for spreading correct information?
[sg-lux-2]
Have a +1 to bring you back to 0, at least.
The base damage lost is 25/50/75, and it went from 28.6 / 33.3 / 40% of target's missing health to 20 / 25 / 30% missing HP damage. So it deals 75+ 10% missing health (+1% max health if villain) less damage at max rank. I'd say that's a fairly significant nerf, as it lost a full quarter of its execute damage and what, nearly 15% of its base damage?
Trias0002 votesDownvoted for spreading correct information?
[sg-lux-2]
Have a +1 to bring you back to 0, at least.
The base damage lost is 25/50/75, and it went from 28.6 / 33.3 / 40% of target's missing health to 20 / 25 / 30% missing HP damage. So it deals 75+ 10% missing health (+1% max health if villain) less damage at max rank. I'd say that's a fairly significant nerf, as it lost a full quarter of its execute damage and what, nearly 15% of its base damage?
Except it deals true damage now and it used to be magic damage to anyone except the villain. So the damage is roughly the same when the target has about 40 MR and it's actually higher when they have more.
Yets42402 votesYet its always lower if you would have been the villain by a quite significant amount. He can still only use it once every several minutes, and would largely be ulting the villain in teamfights. Pretty much the only place its arguably stronger is in lane as his lane opponent is unlikely to have been the villain previously.
Romans VI XXIII4 votesI mean riv and ren can get 3 stacks in 1 ability.
Garen is locked into spin, so it should stack it. The issue is they gave it faster ticks, it outputs nearly the same DPS but ticks faster
Saezio4 votesRiven activates her Q three times, and rene auto attacks 3 times. Those are consistent with everything else in the game.
If garen spin grants more than 1 stack, singed Q should too shouldn't it?
Romans VI XXIII4 votesNo singed Q should not. Garen E is like Urgot E. They are both locked into it for the duration. Thus they should give stacks. So should Wu Ult.
Saezio5 votesUrgot E is his dash.
Urgot W is AUTOATTACKS and you are not locked in it, you can cast your other spells. So your example is really comparing apples and oranges.
Garen E doesn't even slow him down, it even makes him ignore collision. and garen is not locked in it, he can cancel it any time he wants.
It should in no way grant 5 stacks. It should grant 1 stack like every other ability in the game that is not recastable or an auto attack. It's a matter of consistency
Mihalikb4 votesSo again, you are saying Garen should be the only Bruiser who can't use the Brusier tune?
Again, Conqueror is stacked differently than you think it is. There are Champs that are fully designed to be able to proc it instantly with the press of a single button, like Urgot or more specifically PANTHEON. Then there are Champs like Yorick and Darius who passive stack it just buy putting a dot on you or have their minions auto attack you.
Mihalikb4 votesMost top laners can stack Conq faster than Garen's spin.
Yorick gets stacks from Ghoul autos, Darius from bleed ticks, Urgot stacks it both from his machine gun and from his shotgun legs (after Pantheon he stacks it the fastest), Pantheon stacks it instantly from his W, Kled from his passive extra attack, Mordekaiser stacks it from his passive damage ticks, Illaoi gets stacks from every tentacle she hits you with and can also stack it by simply hitting your spirit, Yi stacks it instantly with his Q, Riven stacks it from her Q spam.
You don't seem to understand how Conqueror works and in what Champs.
Do you even play top lane?
Saezio5 votesagain darius Dots don't stack conqueror.
Urgot w is AUTO ATTACKS that ARE MEANT TO STACK CONQ
Who said yi stacks conq insta with Q? his Q is 1 stack.
Riven activates Q 3 times to stack conq (Although maybe riven should infact lose this interaction)
Pantheon empowered W is 3 AUTO ATTACKS and they are meant to stack conq. (his E is 1 stack even though it's multiple hits for example)
Garen's E granting multiple stacks is inconsistent with any other ability with multiple hits and 1 activation (excluding autos that are MEANT to stack Conq)
GrouchyFriend1 votesMost top laners can stack Conq faster than Garen's spin.
Yorick gets stacks from Ghoul autos, Darius from bleed ticks, Urgot stacks it both from his machine gun and from his shotgun legs (after Pantheon he stacks it the fastest), Pantheon stacks it instantly from his W, Kled from his passive extra attack, Mordekaiser stacks it from his passive damage ticks, Illaoi gets stacks from every tentacle she hits you with and can also stack it by simply hitting your spirit, Yi stacks it instantly with his Q, Riven stacks it from her Q spam.
You don't seem to understand how Conqueror works and in what Champs.
Do you even play top lane?
False! Darius bleed does not stack conquer it only stacks cleaver. On that note, conquer procs on all champs per auto attack or button press. I don't see why Garen gets to be an exception to the rule
Croaker272 votesGaren Doesn't use magic.
nachocheeseeeee9 votesHow do 
do against him?
How do
Mundo is pure stat check. No outplaying that shit.
Yorick, you dodge his e. Congratulations, chances are that his ghouls will ignore you and you can trade with him for a while.
nachocheeseeeee11 votesBut can't trap in the cage when Garen is in close in range. Then the E will almost be guaranteed, and the gouls will slowly do their work. Yorick also has decent sustain from his Q. Also, at level 6, I don't think Garen can just go all into Yorick, when he has Maiden.
Yets42405 votesYorick if played well definitely has the upper hand. Garen is far squishier now, with a less useful passive as well. Yorick, especially post 6 and post sheen can stomp all over Garen in 1 vs 1s. In fact, statistically Yorick is his hardest counter, with a 6.8% winrate delta over the Garen.
Morde also dumpsters him nearly as hard with almost a 6% winrate delta.
Darius also still counters him, (4.5% winrate delta) Urgot destroys him, hell, Sion, Illaoi, Camille, all the ranged top laners (Teemo, Kennen, Quinn, Vayne, Vlad, hell, even top lane Kai'sa beats him) Ornn, Pantheon, even Rumble has a positive winrate.
People acting like he's super OP (with his barely over 50% winrate plat+, 50.6% according to League of Graph, and 50.7 according to Champion.gg) and deletes anything in melee, yet he has oodles of counter play available to literally every single champion in the game, and loses a massive amount of top lane match ups, including to at least 10 different melees, and virtually every ranged top laner.
evolvox2 votesI played vs as and this is true.
AquariusGine5 votesI had a Garen in my game obliterate Nasus and went on to 1v5. The Garen players are gonna keep disagreeing but the final decision is up to Riot. If they feel he is overbuffed they will nerf him.
Romans VI XXIII6 votesStrong Early game beat a weak early game whome the strong early game counters. Hmmmmmmmmm. Sounds right to me.
