Imagine being allowed to be busted for 2 years straight

PopcornBunni··114 votes·5,940 views

Twitch

155 Comments

Rindin1432 votes

The reason that Twitch feels busted (at least my theory for why) is that he is allowed to position freely.

In the current meta, ADC champions are constantly buffed to make them relevant against the powerful assassins and bruisers that they have to be dealing with. This means that when an ADC positions well, gets enough peel, or isn't focused down, they deal stupid amounts of damage and win games very quickly.

Granted this requires that they had adequate time to farm (probably minions, maybe champions) but this is another area where Twitch shines. There aren't many ADC champions in the current meta that can farm safely in the mid-game (they'll get picked off by an assassin, dove by a tank, etc) but Twitch at least has the potential to pick up waves before running away with stealth (this won't work every time, but it's not nothing).

So Twitch doesn't necessarily have too much power, his safe farming and free positioning just allow him to fit the meta incredibly well.

Also he's annoying to play against, but that's neither here nor there.

Reformedfindlay13 votes

{quoted}

The reason that Twitch feels busted (at least my theory for why) is that he is allowed to position freely.

In the current meta, ADC champions are constantly buffed to make them relevant against the powerful assassins and bruisers that they have to be dealing with. This means that when an ADC positions well, gets enough peel, or isn't focused down, they deal stupid amounts of damage and win games very quickly.

Granted this requires that they had adequate time to farm (probably minions, maybe champions) but this is another area where Twitch shines. There aren't many ADC champions in the current meta that can farm safely in the mid-game (they'll get picked off by an assassin, dove by a tank, etc) but Twitch at least has the potential to pick up waves before running away with stealth (this won't work every time, but it's not nothing).

So Twitch doesn't necessarily have too much power, his safe farming and free positioning just allow him to fit the meta incredibly well.

Also he's annoying to play against, but that's neither here nor there.

"Powerful bruisers"

I Lol'd. That consists of what, basically camille and jax and no one else?

ShaolinToilet9 votes

Camille Jax udyr gp nasus illaoi j4 etc

AirKingNeo2 votes

Udyr?

Electro5222 votes

Despite Udyr being weak, you think an ADC can out run an Udyr who is even going even with the other jungler?

ShaolinToilet8 votes

Udyr is not weak

GayFluffyUnicorn8 votes

Jax powerful bruiser LUL Also to the comment below: Udyr, nasus and illaoi powerful bruisers omegalul. None of those is even a threat to an AD carry and his bitch.

ShaolinToilet6 votes

Why are they playing Jax in lcs then

Sp33d Zer010 votes

"BUT HASHINHAN SAID!"

Mokuto Bunshi7 votes

When I play a diver or an assassin VS a twitch I notice one HUGE problem... how can I hit what I cant see?

He has at max rank, about 15 seconds to not be found or attacked as the team fight begins to unfold... and i'm stuck not being able to do my job until SURPRISE!!!!!!!! were all half health :P in a second and we got about 1-2 more seconds to flash out or kill him and hope we can win the rest of the fight with that disadvantage.

Snowplosion11 votes

What a genius commentary on the gameplay of League of Legends...

Marshbouy9 votes

http://na.op.gg/champion/twitch/statistics/adc is 51% winrate in normal ranked what kids are calling busted these days? I don't think it is.

######unhealth gameplay patterns is completely different from being busted/OP EDIT: for discussion clarity.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER29 votes

Win rate isn’t always a direct correlation to what defines a healthy/unhealthy champion.

If that’s the case I could argue that Yasuo is balanced because he’s at a 50% win rate, but that’s not the case because almost every player that has played against him shows severe disapproval against his kit.

AirKingNeo11 votes

Twitch isn't statistically broken nor is he pro play broken.

What's your argument for twitch being broken? Genuine question.

SwiftKitten889 votes

{quoted}

Twitch isn't statistically broken nor is he pro play broken.

What's your argument for twitch being broken? Genuine question.

have you ever played against one?

twitch was fine until they changed how his stealth worked. it wasnt "two years" and i wouldnt go as far as to say "broken" at the moment... but certainly "OP".

AirKingNeo16 votes

That's not an argument. I'm asking you for actual proof Twitch is broken; something tangible.

Lauchmelder20 votes

"I'm only gonna accept arguments that fit my point."

AirKingNeo18 votes

No, he didn't give a real argument. I asked why Twitch was broken and he said, "Have you played against him?"

That's a question, not an argument.

Zachak478 votes

No argument was given, so how was he supposed to accept it? :Thinking: Silly bronze players "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FUCK YASUO TWITCH AND LEE NERF NERF NERF"

SwiftKitten887 votes

{quoted}

That's not an argument. I'm asking you for actual proof Twitch is broken; something tangible.

Let's start with, you're not asking ME. I'm not the person you quoted.

2nd.. Do you even know what tangible means?

It means you can TOUCH it, we are discussing an online game; NOTHING is tangible here except your own computer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

W Flynn7 votes

{quoted}

Let's start with, you're not asking ME. I'm not the person you quoted.

2nd.. Do you even know what tangible means?

It means you can TOUCH it, we are discussing an online game; NOTHING is tangible here except your own computer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

2nd meaning of tangible, "clear and definite, real", do you know what it means? at least click the show more after your single google search.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER7 votes

Right because pro play defines solo queue?

Anyways,

L Psy Kongroo15 votes

[{quoted}](name=TSM Piccaboo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yXnumpOY,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2018-02-03T16:13:36.998+0000)

Right because pro play defines solo queue?

Anyways,

You're just describing what his abilities do. You're not giving concrete arguments as to why his abilities are broken.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER4 votes
  • True damage on autos: This stacks up to six times and deals damage over time, lower the stacks at early levels and compensate for late, duration of stacks 3 - 6 stacks/seconds this passive doesn’t need to be relevant at early levels considering trading with him early is quite difficult if he can apply those stacks.

  • Attack speed: This is essential to his passive but since I covered that I’ll skip this.

  • Stealth: He gains 10% MS that is Tripled when he is near by an enemy who can not see him. Just why? This makes chasing down and catching out people in weird positions really easy with a free get out of jail mechanic because it resets on kills.

  • Extra range: Makes kitability too easy, can get a ridiculous 800 range with RFC.

  • Hurricane: Self explanatory if you read the thread.

Nyarlathοtep5 votes

True damage on autos: This stacks up to six times and deals damage over time, lower the stacks at early levels and compensate for late, duration of stacks 3 - 6 stacks/seconds this passive doesn’t need to be relevant at early levels considering trading with him early is quite difficult if he can apply those stacks

Do you really want to lower his passive dmg at early levels? You wut? His passive dmg is 1 true dmg per stack. ONE FKING DMG. WHAT DO YOU MEAN LOWER IT EARLY? My god people like you should be prohibited from posting.

BALDG1VEN BOOMER5 votes

Stacks/duration not damage.

chipndip15 votes

[{quoted}](name=TSM Piccaboo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yXnumpOY,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-02-03T16:03:18.038+0000)

Win rate isn’t always a direct correlation to what defines a healthy/unhealthy champion.

On that note:

Riot has already commented on Twitch, saying that he's always going to feel stronger in solo queue than he actually is since Twitch thrives on elements that are naturally stronger in solo queue than actual League of Legends. You guys complain and complain and nothing changes. Why? Because TWITCH ISN'T BUSTED.

How was this thread not about Janna, the one support that's literally meta in every meta that doesn't feature exclusively mage supports?

MuffledGarbage2 votes

The divorce rate in Spain a few years ago correlated with the amount of Hamsters being bought at stores...

Does this mean that hose Hamsters are responsible?

no, clearly not.

Correlation =/= causation

Marshbouy3 votes

Um. What?

Are you saying that the data on how successful Twitch is in games doesn't relate to how successful he is? wtf?

MuffledGarbage5 votes

I am saying that the Winrate of twitch being 51% doesn't correlate with him being balanced(still annoying).

Winrate by itself doesn't mean anything without also having a play-rate to contextualize it.

Last season, Ryze managed to get a winrate as low as 39% and people were calling for buffs, Ryze did not receive any buffs.

The reason for the low winrate was due to how Ryze is only good with a highly coordinated team and in lower ELO he's less likely to be as effective. Ex: World's 2015, One of the teams used Ryze. By using Ryze they took 2 towers while letting enemy team get dragon. The enemy team was hoping to make a 1 for 1 trade of they get dragon but lose a tower.

As a result the team with Ryze managed to take 2 towers thanks to his ultimate being so powerful. This gold lead eventually won Ryze's team the game.

Marshbouy2 votes

That's a valid point, so I'll make an edit to my comment to narrow down my guidelines. I ask 2 things of you.

  1. Can you find any pro play data to back up him being OP in pro play?

  2. Can we please not talk about "healthy gameplay patterns" because I don't feel like it today.

NorthernRedStar9 votes

Spray and Pray interacting with Runaan's Hurricane as per current makes him troublesome to balance.

His stealth detection radius is almost melee. Why? Evelynn, a melee champion, has twice the detection range. Twitch no longer has the fade delay either.

Stealth duration - simply too high. 10 seconds at rank 1 on top of all the utility, PLUS resets for every takedown. All this for a good, spammable 40 mana cost. Where's the high risk / high reward -pattern?

Venom Cask has a hefty 25% slow at rank 1, and a massive AoE. For such high impact ADC, might be too much considering all the side bonuses he gets? >>

We can also take a look at his base stats and say he doesn't trade much, compared to Lucian for example, for all the merry goodies. Armor difference: 1, and so on.

Ratpie4 votes

{quoted}

Spray and Pray interacting with Runaan's Hurricane as per current makes him troublesome to balance.

His stealth detection radius is almost melee. Why? Evelynn, a melee champion, has twice the detection range. Twitch no longer has the fade delay either.

Stealth duration - simply too high. 10 seconds at rank 1 on top of all the utility, PLUS resets for every takedown. All this for a good, spammable 40 mana cost. Where's the high risk / high reward -pattern?

Venom Cask has a hefty 25% slow at rank 1, and a massive AoE. For such high impact ADC, might be too much considering all the side bonuses he gets? >>

We can also take a look at his base stats and say he doesn't trade much, compared to Lucian for example, for all the merry goodies. Armor difference: 1, and so on.

item 3085 is what I think breaks the bank. I think he would be a strong champ even without it, this just puts him over the top.

AirKingNeo4 votes

Twitch has no interaction with the item.

PB4UAME3 votes

Uh. No you're fucking wrong kiddo.

His ult proc on the side bolts. Hitting the main target with the first auto also lets the m be hit by the pierce of both side bolts, letting you hit each target SIGNIFICANTLY harder than you should, and than anyone else but Jinx can (with her its even worse, her Q procs on the side bolts, so essentially if you are attacking a grouped up set of targets, say after an initiate ult, then you're hitting everyone for over 200% of the damage you should be, they even get the 10% increase physical damage bit, proc LDR's % physical damage increase, crit, scale with IE, everything) which allows you to shotgun damage in ways that are utterly busted and to which I have campaigned for years for RIOT to remove, as it literally ONLY benefits AD hyper carries who are entirely balanced around not having that effect.

It also used to proc on GRB for Kog, in its past iteration, I had forgotten about that until your comment just triggered me. That shit was so ludicrously broken, but it was obvious, you could see it happening, so they were forced to remove it, but leave in Jinx and Twitches shotgunning because people like you exist who don't know what they are talking about, and deny its existence so they have never had to actually address the problem.

AirKingNeo4 votes

No, you don't. Hurricane bolts cannot hit the primary target and do not pierce through enemies.

You can literally google this.

saltran2 votes

Too bad you are trying to argue on the Boards whe you should just circlejerk LUL

Bârd3 votes

Go test it in the practice tool.

The secondary bolts benefit from the AD boost and range, but don't strike through their target.

Dead Anime Dad7 votes

Imagine being meta and strong for as long as time could recall. Orianna

Somebody Love Me11 votes

But at least Orianna is healthy for the most part and actually has real counterplay and interactivity.

She's well designed.

Meanwhile Twitch and Vayne are literal proof that stealth and range should never go together

SHANK LUX MAINS4 votes

"Counterplay"

What lol unless dodge every qw is counterplay she doesn't have any more than twitch.

PB4UAME4 votes

All of her spells are targeted around the ball, except E, which can only target her allies, and Q, which is her only other way to move it.

The counterplay is in the telegraph.

SHANK LUX MAINS4 votes

My point is she has the same counterplay as every mage, dodge skillshots. She isn't special

Somebody Love Me4 votes

That's still more than a certain rat has to offer.

Roaranor4 votes

I think that's the original point. She isn't special in that she's never been an outlier in a bad way, which is a good thing. Her kit is simple and effective, and any changes to her are usually minor number tunes.

You never hear anyone going "Man, I really fucking hate playing against Orianna. She's so unfair!"

Q zzy3 votes

I know right. Beside she will get mana-gated if she spams her ball too much early game. There are a number of broken champs in this game, Orianna isn't one of them.

Blåbæret6 votes

Orianna is a well-designed champion. She also had several periods where she wasn't played. Like at this very moment.

Fairyfleur3 votes

She's had high playrates for long periods of time but always hovering around 50% or lower.

hi ìm groot5 votes

These kinds of threads are literally "I dont know how to play against this, and it couldnt possibly be my fault." threads.

Bârd8 votes

Yasuo WTF MALZ IS SO BROKEN I CAN DO LITERALLY NOTHING Bard buy item 3140 Yasuo lol nt kid. lolking said nothing about item 3140. Bard ...fine then, you fuck. I have a item 3222 stand near me. Malzahar an ally has been slain Yasuo Yasuo A summoner has disconnected

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