So why does Eve destealth when near minions if she has a sunfire?

Support Evelynn·Mar 1, 2015·18 votes·1,955 views

As far as I'm aware this is the only stealth in the game that acts like this.

It makes the item literally unusable on her.

41 Comments

Poptart EvelynnMar 1, 20159 votes

Sunfire isn't good on eve in the first place.

Edit for answer - It wasn't allowed because of the strength of it's potential was the reason a while back they stated for some of the stealth changes.

(Btw this is kinda stupid question because the ability reads "any damage will break stealth" which is the balance behind the stealth)

Support EvelynnMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rawr Poptart Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yQr4aIRe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-03-01T09:19:07.977+0000)

Sunfire isn't good on eve in the first place.

This thread isn't asking whether or not you think sunfire is viable on eve, it's simply pointing out an item interaction that isn't consistent with other stealth abilities.

PartholonianMar 1, 20151 votes

Have you actually tested sunfire on Twitch Teemo Akali Leblanc before you posted this? Because they're even less likely to build it than eve is, normally.

Support EvelynnMar 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Have you actually tested sunfire on before you posted this? Because they're even less likely to build it than eve is, normally.

Teemo yes, Lb yes, akali yes, twitch no.

jmaishereMar 1, 20153 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UZnR1d1Bno

Only Play DariusMar 1, 20152 votes

The real question is....

Why the hell are you building sunfire on an assassin?

Support EvelynnMar 1, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yQr4aIRe,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-01T09:26:28.309+0000)

The real question is....

Why the hell are you building sunfire on an assassin?

Eve from the jungle is almost always a bruiser, as are other assassins such as Rengar or Khazix.

It just fits the teamcomp the best typically, though there are obviously exceptions.

IcyPepperMar 1, 20158 votes

Most people seem to build her bruiser style rather than as an assassin, especially since how her kit and ult works.

Though she'd be better off with something like randuin's than sunfire.

SaiannaMar 1, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yQr4aIRe,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-03-01T09:26:28.309+0000)

The real question is....

Why the hell are you building sunfire on an assassin?

The real question is ...

How can you call tank champion an assassin?

BeatzBoyFTWMar 1, 20151 votes

Faster jungle clear time.
Not every assassins has to be glass cannon, or just

Serenity NowMar 1, 20152 votes

LOL. This dates back to season one when Eve could stealth for up to 60s (yes, it used to last that long) and damage opponents by just standing next to them.

Nameless VoiceMar 1, 20153 votes

And multiple Sunfire Capes' damage stacked.

BerserkInfernoMar 1, 20151 votes

The mundo plays were real.

CindikleMar 2, 20152 votes

Sure she can't perma-stealth anymore. But this is mainly why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVAi08_G0Tc

j jMar 3, 20151 votes

What back when the game was fun?

Sona PingMar 1, 20151 votes

Because:

Passive: When out of combat for 6 seconds, Evelynn enters stealth, only being able to be seen by enemy champions within 700 range or true sight. While stealthed, Evelynn regenerates 2% of her missing mana every second and ignores unit collision.

(Note: The use of W also counts.) (Note: It's still literally usable.)

Support EvelynnMar 1, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yQr4aIRe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-03-01T09:24:21.614+0000)

Because:

(Note: The use of W also counts.) (Note: It's still literally usable.)

Then I'd request that sunfire shouldn't do damage while eve's passive is up to not make it a complete and utter noob trap.

KairyaMar 1, 20151 votes

Teemo stays invisible with Sunfire, while hitting minions with it. Just look up those strange "tankmo" clips...

Sona PingMar 2, 20151 votes

If Teemo stands still and takes no action for 2 seconds, he becomes stealthed. Taking any action or being moved will break his camouflage, giving Teemo Element of Surprise, 40% bonus attack speed for 3 seconds.

Teemo's stealth condition is entirely different. You're comparing apples to cucumbers.

KairyaMar 3, 20151 votes

We are comparing stealth and sunfire. The difference between Teemos and Eve stealth is not the steath itself, but the things that happen before or after the stealth. Before stealth Teemo needs to stand still and take no action, while Eve only needs to take no action, but may walk. After stealth Teemo gains a buff, and Eve get's nothing.

During stealth Eve and Teemo are invisible. Eve is still allowed to walk around. Thats the whole difference. I dont think walking and standing are as far apart from each other as apples and cucumbers. Also: Both Eve and Teemo gain their stealth passively, while all the other champions (Shaco, Wukong, Talon, Akali, Kha'Zix, Rengar) need to use a skill for it. Both of them have no timer on their stealth.

Destealthing has more differences, but determining those and the reasons behind them is the point of this discussion. I didn't feel like putting that much thought into it, which is why I simply wanted to point out Teemo, so others may think of something.

Sona PingMar 3, 20151 votes

Not trying to be rude, but you have missed point entirely. This conversation, the question by Crabby which I was replying to and you continued, is about the mechanics of Sunfire Cape. Everything you wrote here is utterly irrelevant; The two characters function differently because they function differently.

If you want to talk about the impact of their stealth on gameplay, that's fine! But that's not my conversation about produce, that's a conversation about aluminum lawn furniture.

KairyaMar 4, 20151 votes

Hmm.. I think the point of Crabbys question changed during this discussion. Certain aspects have already been answered and new ones appeared. Especially since someone else pointed out, that it used to be possible to buy sunfire cape on Eve and remain stealthed. This means Riot thought at some point that sunfire cape was too powerful on Eve, and made a conscious decision to patch it. It's not just a bug. A lot of things changed since then and to find out if Eve should be allowed to remain stealthed despite Sunfires Passive you need to look at more than just her. To me the question is about game balance. more like one of these: " Why is it necessary to "ban" Eve from buying this item, while other stealth-champs may use the item without repercussions?" " How much of a threat is a stealthed sunfire-cape? " To me the comparison to other champs seemed vital to this discussion, because we as players can't observe Eve with a "fixed" Sunfire Cape, until the change has already been made. So we need to look at the champions that share certain similarities with Eve.

But rereading this whole discussion made me think that I must have accidentaly posted underneath your oringinal comment, since my Teemo reply makes little sense as a reaction on your sentence. But who knows.. I remember having a headache that day, so maybe it made sense to me then...

vIbvdOwbkoMar 1, 20151 votes

All stealths work differently. Talon's stealth deactivates from potions, any active items like yomu's, or flashing. I don't know if they changed it or not but that's how it was the last time i checked.

Support EvelynnMar 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

All stealths work differently. Talon's stealth deactivates from potions, any active items like yomu's, or flashing. I don't know if they changed it or not but that's how it was the last time i checked.

I am almost positive that isn't the case anymore but I could be wrong.

RädMar 1, 20152 votes

You can pop youmuu's while in stealth with talon

JigglypuffMar 1, 20151 votes

thinking manMar 1, 20151 votes

Sunfire is a shit item unless you have zero damage scalings at all so giving people a reason not to get it is good tbh.

Raja ChachkiMar 1, 20151 votes

this is an issue....but Riot doesn't care. Pick Randuins next time because this won't be changed.

Sona PingMar 2, 20151 votes

Far be it from me to defend Riot, but I have a hard time seeing that.

"One item has a feature which which does not gel well with one ability in one champions kit in certain situations". I don't see how this is severe enough to be considered "an issue", especially when it's a sub-optimal item on the champion anyway.

COWmanLordMar 1, 20151 votes

I think I can explain why by using this scenario. This may have been more of an issue when sunfire cape could stack so it may just be left over from that era, but it still is applicable today.

Imagine eve remained stealthed when sunfire cape damaged minions waves. Eve could actually push waves and splitpush (albeit rather slowly until the wave builds up) without the enemy team even knowing if they don't go clear the wave themselves soon enough. Someone being able to splitpush while invisible is kinda crazy sounding.

Now riot could just do something like make the sunfire cape not do damage while she is stealthed, but that also factor is to the cost of sunfire cape. I read that the fact that sunfire cape costs what it does is because you can accidentally aggro jungle camps and you are forced to push faster when you build it. Allowing Eve to have more control over when the sunfire cape aura is being used would give her an advantage that no other champ has when building the item.

PartholonianMar 1, 20151 votes

Supposedly, Cinderhulk only activates when you're in combat. I wonder if they will apply the same technology to the whole item family, including Sunfire (which will have a new build path that includes getting a fire aura earlier).

ImHerVoiceMar 1, 20151 votes

yeah I stopped playing full tank eve entirely because riot is a son of a bitch to tank eve.

Went back to AP tank eve lol. rylias+frozen heart/randuims+ liandries+banshees viel

Support EvelynnMar 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

yeah I stopped playing full tank eve entirely because riot is a son of a bitch to tank eve.

Went back to AP tank eve lol. rylias+frozen heart/randuims+ liandries+banshees viel

AP bruiser is inferior since the E change to add on hits. You should try AD bruiser.

item 3153 item 3078 item 3111 item 3707 item 3102 item 3143

CrettMar 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

AP bruiser is inferior since the E change to add on hits. You should try AD bruiser.

item 3091 item 3710 item 3115 item 3003 item 3089 item 3100 call me a monster but i love this build nashor's and lich bane add an 80% AP ratio onto her E wit's end and devourer proc twice on her e

Syn ZykanMar 2, 20151 votes

replace archangels with void staff if going for that build, archangels takes way too long to ramp up and you need the pen.

ImHerVoiceMar 6, 20151 votes

did it ever cross your mind I've played full tank eve since her release and never once wanted to play AD eve and the fact that they changed E to be physical damage was a slap in an eve players face?

Even post stun nerf eve could at least clear the jungle decently and then go gank and maybe get a kill. The only way you get a kill now is if they're at your turret and completely blind to any and all presence of a jungler in which case ANY jungler would kill them.

Anyway. I unistalled this game months ago. Got sick of riots shit.

Used to be one of the top ten eve players. But then season 5 came out and now I'm just sick of this shit.

you know that site called wastedonlol.com? I went there to clock my hours in last year before I quit just to see how much of my soul I actually poured into gameplay. This doesn't include time spent on forums talking with devs online through email for changes and suggestions.. etc... Its just pure gameplay it counts.

9,528 hours was my time spent exactly. You wanna know how many thousands of eve games I played? 5,000+ easily. Relatively 800-1,200 per season basically since her release

and then you look at my eve games in s5 and see I've played none or hardly any but she's still one of my most played compared to other junglers.

I've played j4 since his release too so.. but w/e Idc I tried to give pre season one last try but I couldn't bother. Games done for me, the fun has left and so has my love.

I get upset just thinking of how this game has become a shadow of its former glory.

the diversity and depth have been sucked from this game and it has become a real shitter. They can try to revive it but it'll already have been too late for me.

Their whack a mole style has left me sick of their shit. Anyway.. Imma go play divinity original sin or shadowrun dragonfall. Peace bro.

TheI3igDaddyMar 1, 20151 votes

Uh, I don't even play Eve, but from what I know is

Sunfire does AOE DoT
Eve walks near minions
Eve goes into combat with the wave, thus turning her passive off.

Nobody is able to attack IN stealth and stay in it; that'd be broken as hell.

Sunfire Cape isn't unusable on Eve, it just gimps her when she tries to stealth through lanes, so obviously you want to buy something else, like Randuins or Frozen Heart instead as your armor item.

Miku Lv99Mar 1, 20151 votes

Oh so that new jungle tank item is going to be useless on her, too. She really needs a buff. I thought with DFG removed then it supposedly removed the liability of making her to strong so that she could be buffed. And yet DFG is removed and she still has yet to be buffed.

Sunfire Cape isn't that good on her, but this change has a problem. Enemies could see their minions' health bars going down to reason that there much be an eve with a Sunfire Cape nearby anyways. The current way it works just makes it easier for them to tell. So tbh I don't think this part should be changed. But she does need some sort of buff.

EedatMar 2, 20151 votes

It's because her passive procs specifically when she is out of combat. Aggroing the minions puts her in combat. Thats technically why it breaks stealth

That being said, I think a small quality of life change would be nice for Eve to prevent this from happening. Then again people have been begging Riot to make a toggle for Sunfire Cape for an eternity to no avail because it also does things like grab turret aggro even if your not directly attacking a champion under it.

Jungle Lux GodMar 2, 20151 votes

Eve unstealths near minions when she has a Sunfire Cape for the exact same reason Sunfire Cape doesn't have a toggle.

There's no reason for it not to be changed, but yet there's still no change for it.

StoningtonMar 2, 20151 votes

All stealth works like this with sunfire cape. They needed to nerf this I guess:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orG_eO2o_kQ