If you're gonna nerf Eve, don't lie in the patch notes

Support Evelynn·Oct 14, 2015·93 votes·4,099 views

You say she has higher mana for fights due to Runeglaive, but in reality this only applies to a very small part of the early game where you're still clearing then ganking. What this nerf ACTUALLY butchers is your pre runeglaive fights and greatly hampers bigger teamfights and longer skirmishes where you're spamming the shit out of W.

And don't give me the tired excuse of "muh mana on runeglaive", sure it's nice but even AD eve itemized Sheen with Trinity force. Runeglaive in no way mitigates this cost except for jumping around camps. If you wanted to mana gate because of runeglaive then you picked the wrong thing to destroy.

67 Comments

Jungle Lux GodOct 14, 201516 votes

I don't play Eve, so I won't comment on her changes, but I know enough about how Runeglaive to know that Riot's reasoning for nerfing Eve the way they did is complete BS.

Runeglaive was designed so that mana isn't a gate in the jungle. That's literally the only reason any AP jungler should pick it up outside of really good synergy with the Sheen proc.

From what Riot has told us, they nerfed Eve because of the FULLY INTENDED interaction between Runeglaive and AP champions in the jungle.

Lambs FrenzyOct 14, 201511 votes

Honestly felt they nerfed her because of her stealth, because In no way did she deserve this nerf.

AkabaneKunOct 14, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lambs Frenzy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-14T14:46:51.109+0000)

Honestly felt they nerfed her because of her stealth, because In no way did she deserve this nerf.

They always nerf her because of her stealth, they just give random dumb excuses for it, riot is like that they like to go around the problem and nerf everything else, look at kassadin lol.

{quoted}

W still resets on kill or assist right?

So, 40 mana to engage a fight, 40 more if you get a kill and need to chase more 40 more after that (120 mana on the double, and you're still chasing!) 40 more 40 MORE 40 for the last time for the Ace.

So it is possible in a single engagement to use 240 mana on just W to maintain mobility. Runeglaive grants 200 mana, so you're -40 in the optimal situation of an ace, not including any W resets you may have gotten from the passive portion. Triforce gives you the same mana, better sticking power, more damage unless you build a crapton of AP, and more durability (for greater cost, granted.) Rage passive being what it is, you might not even need to recast W to stick.

But that's just lategame. If Riot's real goal is, "Eve needs to gank less early," well, this may very well accomplish that. She can't W between camps to speed up her clear now, because she'll run herself OOM, which means she'll farm slower, LEVEL slower, so she'll HAVE TO choose between ganking and farming more to keep up.

Good thing she only needs to press W the whole game, amirite?

JasiwelOct 14, 201510 votes

The last time I saw an Evelynn was a couple of nights ago where I was playing Hecarim, who I had only played around 5-10 games with at the time. This Evelynn also had a skin. Every 1v1 or encounter I had with her in the game resulted with me winning. I destroyed her every time, chased her down every time. We only lost the game because we threw ridiculously hard and had an intentional feeder at the end.

Now I'm not saying Eve is weak because I'm seen her do ridiculous things. However, I feel like that can be said with most champions in the game. Riot giving her a 40 mana cost to her once-free W is kind of surprising because she isn't nearly as strong as some of the other junglers winning games right now. On top of that, why 40 from 0?

Lost In TimeOct 14, 20159 votes

but muh % missing MP regen

Support EvelynnOct 14, 201546 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost In Time,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-14T10:07:46.726+0000)

but muh % missing MP regen

SURE AS FUCK HELPS ME IN A FIGHT.

Lost In TimeOct 14, 201529 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-14T10:08:47.237+0000)

SURE AS FUCK HELPS ME IN A FIGHT.

Duh, just pull a Garen, disappear for like 6 seconds and come back with a full mana bar

Or so Riot would have us believe.

foinhasOct 14, 20156 votes

how to play evelynn:

stay away from teamfights :p

Chaotic ReksOct 15, 20152 votes

stay away from any fights

ftfy

NagmaOct 14, 201512 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-14T10:08:47.237+0000)

SURE AS FUCK HELPS ME IN A FIGHT.

i feel the same way when people say " cassio e refund 1,5 of your mana " XD

Red RyuOct 14, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-14T10:08:47.237+0000)

SURE AS FUCK HELPS ME IN A FIGHT.

You aren't going to lose your whole mama bar in a fight of you are stealthed for a bit going to gank.

XonraOct 14, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=000100000002,timestamp=2015-10-14T14:35:07.389+0000)

You aren't going to lose your whole mama bar in a fight of you are stealthed for a bit going to gank.

You've never actually PLAYED League of Legends have you?

KidSpectreOct 14, 20157 votes

W still resets on kill or assist right?

So, 40 mana to engage a fight, 40 more if you get a kill and need to chase more 40 more after that (120 mana on the double, and you're still chasing!) 40 more 40 MORE 40 for the last time for the Ace.

So it is possible in a single engagement to use 240 mana on just W to maintain mobility. Runeglaive grants 200 mana, so you're -40 in the optimal situation of an ace, not including any W resets you may have gotten from the passive portion. Triforce gives you the same mana, better sticking power, more damage unless you build a crapton of AP, and more durability (for greater cost, granted.) Rage passive being what it is, you might not even need to recast W to stick.

But that's just lategame. If Riot's real goal is, "Eve needs to gank less early," well, this may very well accomplish that. She can't W between camps to speed up her clear now, because she'll run herself OOM, which means she'll farm slower, LEVEL slower, so she'll HAVE TO choose between ganking and farming more to keep up.

Hyrum GraffOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

W still resets on kill or assist right?

So, 40 mana to engage a fight, 40 more if you get a kill and need to chase more 40 more after that (120 mana on the double, and you're still chasing!) 40 more 40 MORE 40 for the last time for the Ace.

So it is possible in a single engagement to use 240 mana on just W to maintain mobility. Runeglaive grants 200 mana, so you're -40 in the optimal situation of an ace, not including any W resets you may have gotten from the passive portion. Triforce gives you the same mana, better sticking power, more damage unless you build a crapton of AP, and more durability (for greater cost, granted.) Rage passive being what it is, you might not even need to recast W to stick.

But that's just lategame. If Riot's real goal is, "Eve needs to gank less early," well, this may very well accomplish that. She can't W between camps to speed up her clear now, because she'll run herself OOM, which means she'll farm slower, LEVEL slower, so she'll HAVE TO choose between ganking and farming more to keep up.

Actual analysis in complaint thread. Take my +1

RainbowIceeOct 14, 20156 votes

I don't use runeglaive.. fuck me right? right rito!?

Puppet33rOct 14, 20155 votes

The worst part is that it butchers non-runeglaive jungle. First they changed e to physical dmg and let it apply on-hits so she won't one-shot anyone she sneaks up on and open up other build paths as a trade off. And now just because riot deemed runeglaive op, they nerf her and leave runeglaive as the only viable option.

XonraOct 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The worst part is that it butchers non-runeglaive jungle. First they changed e to physical dmg and let it apply on-hits so she won't one-shot anyone she sneaks up on and open up other build paths as a trade off. And now just because riot deemed runeglaive op, they nerf her and leave runeglaive as the only viable option.

This is actually the only part of it I have a problem with (aside from nerfing a champion for really no reason, not that the nerf was super frustrating in itself).

It basically forces you into getting runeglaive now 100%.

Dat jungler diversity Riot, amirite?

Red RyuOct 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

This is actually the only part of it I have a problem with (aside from nerfing a champion for really no reason, not that the nerf was super frustrating in itself).

It basically forces you into getting runeglaive now 100%.

Dat jungler diversity Riot, amirite?

Were people actually building Warrior on her?

Like legitimately building Warrior on her?

Support EvelynnOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2015-10-15T03:40:06.437+0000)

Were people actually building Warrior on her?

Like legitimately building Warrior on her?

It was core on her most of the season.

Red RyuOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-15T03:49:40.281+0000)

It was core on her most of the season.

I'm referring to more recently, but before runeglave got changed and warrior losing 5 AD then regaining it to where it is now.

If eve were building Warrior in 5.18-5.19 I haven't seen it.

That said, I'm still not convinced this will neuter her in team fights.

Support EvelynnOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=00080000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-15T05:57:55.285+0000)

That said, I'm still not convinced this will neuter her in team fights.

Late game? Nah, though it may be annoying.

It'll gut her early game and some of her midgame tho.

MrWasjigOct 14, 20154 votes

Even then RG only procs on Jungle monsters now. Soooooo yeah so much for that.

Zair UmbrasOct 15, 20154 votes

Let's turn Eve into an AD Jungler by making her E do physical!

Runeglaive comes out, turns half of E into magic and Rylai's makes her Q spam permaslow, AP Eve is now prime.

Runeglaive Nerfed to the floor for Eve, people go back to AD Eve.

Mana cost added to W to make up for Runeglaive being an option.

GG.

Red RyuOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zair Umbras,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-10-15T00:18:48.597+0000)

Let's turn Eve into an AD Jungler by making her E do physical!

Runeglaive comes out, turns half of E into magic and Rylai's makes her Q spam permaslow, AP Eve is now prime.

Runeglaive Nerfed to the floor for Eve, people go back to AD Eve.

Mana cost added to W to make up for Runeglaive being an option.

GG.

I haven't seen many if any Eve's build warrior on her.

Zair UmbrasOct 15, 20151 votes

Haven't seen many Eves in existence since the Runeglaive nerf and the ones I do see are all Cinderhulk tanky types.

SalidfingersOct 15, 20151 votes

Ive seen warrior and Cinderhulk and they do the worst performance in the game all the time and it irritates me each time. They always die or do no damage all game.

Zair UmbrasOct 15, 20151 votes

Runeglaive Eve tends to die a lot as well though. Unless Eve gets fed early and rushes into the old items AP Eve got back when her E did magical, which is a Rylai's+Liandry's, she's going to be suuuuuper squishy and die before she does more than press R.

It's sorta the issue with Eve. She's either 100% pick and ban because her ganks are really hard to beat and fight against or she's never picked ever because she has issues clearing and her ganking ability got nerfed like when her Q had been nerfed a while back just to be buffed later on. Eve has no CC and short range, just like Mordekaiser, yet when ever she can do damage, she's nerfed to the floor. lol. I'm surprised they haven't given her some kind of stacking mechanism or something to delay her burst a second or two to add counterplay so they can actually give her damage. lol

Whimsy SpookOct 14, 20152 votes

Eve is like super OP, just unpopular because noone plays her at worlds or their favourite streamer isn't playing her.

Support EvelynnOct 14, 201528 votes

[{quoted}](name=Whimsy Spook,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-14T10:20:00.808+0000)

Eve is like super OP, just unpopular because noone plays her at worlds or their favourite streamer isn't playing her.

This has nothing to do with your opinion on whether or not Eve is op. This is pointing out that their explanation for the nerfs is horse shit.

The Sword SaintOct 14, 20152 votes

She's been in several games at worlds already.

Puppet33rOct 14, 201516 votes

And did nothing even in the one her team won.

Skia AsteriOct 14, 201514 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-10-14T16:58:19.811+0000)

She's been in several games at worlds already.

Three games of the 49 played so far, two of which were losses. And she has not been banned a single time yet.

Such high pick/ban rate, so much success.

The Sword SaintOct 14, 20153 votes

Didn't say she was successful, I said she was played. You, know, in response to who I quoted - who said she wasn't played in worlds.

Skia AsteriOct 14, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=0002000100010000,timestamp=2015-10-14T17:45:41.188+0000)

Didn't say she was successful, I said she was played. You, know, in response to who I quoted - who said she wasn't played in worlds.

Then quote what you are replying too. Otherwise it is impossible to tell from chronological view.

Support EvelynnOct 14, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Sword Dancer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2015-10-14T16:58:19.811+0000)

She's been in several games at worlds already.

So was Fizz but that doesn't mean anything. For such a small amount. It's literally only 3 games.

Red RyuOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QEELvBBf,comment-id=000200010002,timestamp=2015-10-14T18:47:36.430+0000)

So was Fizz but that doesn't mean anything. For such a small amount. It's literally only 3 games.

She was still picked.

That was his point in response to another poster.

VermonsterOct 14, 20152 votes

Eve being played again? Quick nerf her and make up an excuse for why shes being nerfed!

Riot has time to nerf Eve but doesn't have time to nerf Darius Garen Gragas RekSai TahmKench

Zair UmbrasOct 15, 20154 votes

Rek'Sai is nerfed into the floor. The poor thing doesn't need anymore nerfs.

BhagswagOct 15, 20152 votes

Yeah, what exactly is OP about RekBae?

Zair UmbrasOct 15, 20151 votes

Vision. That's about it... Seriously, that's it. I mean, the old Eve did the same thing and got reworked because that was all she could do is be a walking ward... as well as stack sunfires, but that's a whole different story.

VermonsterOct 16, 20151 votes

Rek is still a top tier jungle pick. Not only does she have incredible vision, but a relatively spam-able global ultimate, incredible clear times in the jungle as well as mobility through the jungle and into lane, cc, true damage.

While I agree the nerfs have brought Rek'Sai more into line. The issue wasn't oh her numbers need a little peeling back (well it was, but not the main issue). The issue was/is, the incredible amount her kit brings to the table. A similar champion who will also always be appearing in the jungle at worlds is lee sin. While lee sin after being the top jungler for seasons without being touched finally got nerfed, his hits mobility, utility, natural damage make him an ideal jungler. What you need to realize is what looking at jungle champions their kits mobility, utility, and base damage on abilities and sustain are whats important. Not their scaling, burst, steroids, or late game.

Elise LeeSin RekSai Skarner Sejuani Gragas Rengar Ekko All of these champions have similar attributes, especially when played at a competitive level. I see fast jungle clears, mobility and utility on all of them, and the ones who have higher win rates are the ones who have higher base damages and more mobility Ekko RekSai LeeSin Gragas

PartholonianOct 15, 20151 votes

Darius has 2 nerfs this patch. Do u even read bro?

VermonsterOct 16, 20151 votes

When I wrote that the server hadn't gone back up, hard to judge if something is truely a nerf until you play on it so I didn't wanna include that. Also their previous "nerf" I didn't think was going to do sh** to Darius extreme overpowered new kit... as time has told it effectively did not

Block HopperOct 15, 20151 votes

Rek'Sai got nerfed like 5 patches in a row... what more do you want riot to do? Remove her from the game?

VermonsterOct 16, 20151 votes

My issue is that while nerfing her numbers has effectively hurt her (too much in some instances), her issues are what I posted above ^^^

Summary, her kit is over stacked with what junglers want; mobility, clear times, utility (cc). I think what they need to do with her is remove some of her kits effectiveness while returning a little of the damage they stripped her from. You'll notice the nerfs had no effect on her competitive play

kaltenashesOct 14, 20151 votes

am i the only one who builds cinderhulk? im 5 mastery and always build cinderhulk. to get the sheen + a slow, i build the iceborn gauntlets...its great for turret dives...and tbh i barely use her w

Support EvelynnOct 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

am i the only one who builds cinderhulk? im 5 mastery and always build cinderhulk. to get the sheen + a slow, i build the iceborn gauntlets...its great for turret dives...and tbh i barely use her w

No offense but level 5 mastery doesn't make that build any less terrible currently. No one runs cinder anymore because her bases were gutted to hell.

Shyvana BotOct 14, 20151 votes

5 mastery just means you played her a lot, nothing about the quality of your gameplay. Also since both her bases and cinder hulk were gutted its not worth building. IF you want to go tank now runeglave into full tank is the way to go.

kaltenashesOct 14, 20151 votes

yep, i wanted to say that i played her a lot (not about the quality tough =/)...thnx for that info, i had no clue... i usually build item 3143 item 3025 item 3709 item 3117 sometimes i'd take item 3151 / item 3146 / item 3116 am i doing sh*t?

Shyvana BotOct 15, 20152 votes

I usually go item 3708 or item 3724 into item 3117 item 3116 item 3742 item 3102 and whatever item you feel like as a final. Also as a side note, never buy cinder hulk or sunfire cape with mobility boots. They will shut down every time you walk near a creep or enemy.