With all the shit that's been released in the jungle (and elsewhere) as of late, can we please get over the fear of Leona being a jungler? This simple change would make her clearing adequate in the jungle allowing her to be a much more diverse champion.
She'd be a high threat ganker with low damage, rito pls.
AnCa10 votesWouldn't that just make her like S2 Alistar jg? I am pretty sure Riot is staying away from double hard cc lvl 2 gank jger with gap closer + decent clear speed.
Support Evelynn10 votesWouldn't that just make her like S2 Alistar jg? I am pretty sure Riot is staying away from double hard cc lvl 2 gank jger with gap closer + decent clear speed.
Uh no? Alistar had twice the range on his W for one thing and significantly better PERSONAL damage before he was nerfed to the ground.
Also there are plenty of junglers with hard CC at levels 2/3.
AnCa10 votesI said DOUBLE hard cc at exactly level TWO. Not level 2/3 or any jungler with a hard cc. AND in those 2 cc skills one of them also gap close. Its very devastating to have all 3 of these in a combination. Riot just won't risk having a jger with all 3 of these to have a decent clear. That is also why Bliz (no gap close, but grab function similarly to or is better than a gap close) jg is not a thing. The closest you would get to this allowed by Riot balance team is probably Nautilus who has a really short root as the 2nd part of the hard cc early on and walk really slow and has a slow hook.
Granted Leona's E is harder to hit since it is a skill shot compare to Alistar's kit. But the effect is comparable when u hit them. U gap close while cc'ing that person on arrival, into a 2nd hard cc at level 2 while the laner is probably still at level 1. And I can't think of anyone else that have all these tools at exactly lvl 2. Not trying to be mean, I just think Riot won't risk it by giving anyone that can do that to have a better clear. Honestly I would love to have another cc tank jger, it just won't happen.
P.S. Ohh and I almost missed it. "OBJECTION!!" :P
Daedalus87119 votes
Chaotic Reks1 votes
magic pole3 votes
comes close to this with double hard CC level 2 if he wants. But yeah he doesn't really have a gap closer nor great clear speed.
Mecha MaIphite1 votesHe doesn't come close, he straight-up fits the requirements. Granted one of them is a little short.
Chaotic Reks1 votesGranted one of them is a little short.
"IS THAT A SHORT JOKE?!"
terkmc3 votes
Tails Doll1 votesWait but alist is not really a double hard CC. If you W+Q combo the W doesnt really do much, the real CC comes from the Q. Unless you flash Q+W I guess? Leona does have double CC though.
P3rro1 votesGapcloser...if you land it.
Hawkefire2 votesHonestly I think old Alistar is/was significantly worse...when you were fighting against an alistar jungler, you often couldn't even hide behind your turret because of the headbutt. At least with Leona you don't have to deal with such a massive displacement.
Anonagon5 votesNo, it wouldn't be nearly as bad, for a couple of reasons:
Leona jungle typically starts W because its the highest damage spell and provides more sustain through resists Leona's combo is based off a skillshot, while Alistar's is targeted Leona's CC is much more low-impact than Alistar's - her E is only a half second root, and her Q a 1.5 second stun. This is nowhere near as bad as Alistar's twin displacements Alistar wasn't broken because "two CCs at level 2" - he was broken because he could knock you out of the safety of your own tower. Leona doesn't have a knockback. She'll be fine.
Support Evelynn4 votesNo, it wouldn't be nearly as bad, for a couple of reasons:
Leona jungle typically starts W because its the highest damage spell and provides more sustain through resists Leona's combo is based off a skillshot, while Alistar's is targeted Leona's CC is much more low-impact than Alistar's - her E is only a half second root, and her Q a 1.5 second stun. This is nowhere near as bad as Alistar's twin displacements Alistar wasn't broken because "two CCs at level 2" - he was broken because he could knock you out of the safety of your own tower. Leona doesn't have a knockback. She'll be fine.
Thank god someone with a brain.
SH Azykan1 votesI start Q then get either e or W at level 2 (level 2 gank or clear) the AA reset is good on top of it being a stun for the extra time of not taking damage. starting krugs it almost feels like cheating since you stunlock the poor thing lol
Marthian7 votesLeona, Low damage, that isn't really true at all, she has pretty good damage (not to mention the tons of lockdown she has.)
Support Evelynn5 votesLeona, Low damage, that isn't really true at all, she has pretty good damage (not to mention the tons of lockdown she has.)
Her damage is low among tanks due to her CDs being a bit prohibitive. She has to build quite a bit of damage to deal it.
darkdill4 votesOr a lot of CDR, which tends to be better because of the flat damage of Sunlight. It's better for her to get more Sunlight procs than it is for her to get AP or AD.
LordGeovanni1 votesand in that you trade off tankyness if you use runes which also has a cap
darkdill1 votesEasily dealt with via Frozen Heart and Locket/Spirit Visage.
LordGeovanni1 voteslocket/ spirit visage isnt tanky its a support item and like all support items isnt bought for the benefit of the support. frozen heart has okay armor but tank items are subpar compared to the items carries get almost all adcs or assassins naturally build some type penetration same with mages and now with new black cleaver so does most tops
ComannderShepard1 votesLeona, Low damage, that isn't really true at all, she has pretty good damage (not to mention the tons of lockdown she has.)
This. Remember jungle 
?
BRBGTGBOWFLEX6 votesI actually like this idea, but Leona as a jungler that could clear effectively could be a bit too overpowered.
Leona roams/ganks are extremely powerful. If you flash W+ E, wait, Q, +w pops, wait, R and every single one of those lands and gets proc'd it is a shit ton of damage.
Current itemization also seems to have a lot of great things for her... I may actually want to try it again. However, I think she needs a definitive weakness in early clears, because her level 2 and level 3 are just so strong. I main Vi and Leona, and of the two, Leona has superior lockdown.
Support Evelynn3 votesI actually like this idea, but Leona as a jungler that could clear effectively could be a bit too overpowered.
No it wouldn't. Leona has very little self snowballing potential even compared to other tanks. It's like saying Naut is op because his ganks are on par if not better in some situations.
Olath Quortek4 votesHonestly I've wanted them to do this since I started playing Leona. And I know plenty of people would cry OP if it happened but this is the safest way to allow her to branch out from bot lane support tank. It only buffs her jungle clear so she doesn't kill you any faster and if it makes her clear too quickly just nerf the damage it deals to monsters. Leona can proc her own sunlight on neutral monsters at 50% damage. Simple as that. Instantly makes her a viable jungler without making her an op support with a perfect balance lever. And for anyone crying about too much CC... Nautilus exists... and last time I checked he was the "King of CC..."
CaptnJakSparrow2 votesBecause Leona needs the extra 300 damage in 1v1s as early as level 3.
Support Evelynn1 votes[deleted]
CaptnJakSparrow3 votes[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vPj8Qcaw,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-09-16T06:47:03.108+0000)
Please learn to read, thanks.
Even with monsters only she'd still be incredibly stupid. I play a lot of Leona, and can for 100% certainty say she'd be fucking retarded if that was allowed to go through.
Support Evelynn4 votesEven with monsters only she'd still be incredibly stupid. I play a lot of Leona, and can for 100% certainty say she'd be fucking retarded if that was allowed to go through.
Can you explain why? I'd like an actual argument and not just "cuz I know better xD".
There are already junglers that gank as well as her while supplying more damage, this isn't gonna break her.
CaptnJakSparrow1 votes[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vPj8Qcaw,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-16T06:51:23.717+0000)
Can you explain why? I'd like an actual argument and not just "cuz I know better xD".
There are already junglers that gank as well as her while supplying more damage, this isn't gonna break her.
She 1: Has fairly high base damages that are readily spammable once proper cool down reduction is achieved.
2: Has built in spammable armor making it so she can get away with building cinderhulk/ or even runeglaive if you wanted to be burstier.
Also at level 6: Leona can dish out 800 damage with 0 items in about 1 second with a snare AND 3 seconds worth of stun. Name me a jungler that can stun lock you for 3 seconds at level 6.
At 40% cdr she would be a super fast clearer with spammable hard cc bordering Skarner level, and would also clear dragons ridiculously fast.
There's a reason a Leona that roams is a nightmare.
Support Evelynn4 votesShe 1: Has fairly high base damages that are readily spammable once proper cool down reduction is achieved.
Naut has higher damage and lower CDs
2: Has built in spammable armor making it so she can get away with building cinderhulk/ or even runeglaive if you wanted to be burstier.
So does Rammus, and he has about 4x the damage.
- Her passive gives her 4 abilities for jungler clearing akin to most peoples only 2 typically, rarely 3. This would make her one of the faster tank jungler clearers to date. ((Nautilus is one of the few with 4 as well.))
Most people's 2 or 3 abilities are highly spammable or give great clear speeds on their own. This will not make her clears incredibly good.
Also at level 6: Leona can dish out 800 damage with 0 items in about 1 second with a snare AND 3 seconds worth of stun. Name me a jungler that can stun lock you for 3 seconds at level 6.
Naut locks you down longer.
There's a reason a Leona that roams is a nightmare.
There's also a reason she's even completely outclassed in her main role rofl.
CaptnJakSparrow3 votes[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vPj8Qcaw,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-09-16T07:15:45.881+0000)
Naut has higher damage and lower CDs
So does Rammus, and he has about 4x the damage.
Most people's 2 or 3 abilities are highly spammable or give great clear speeds on their own. This will not make her clears incredibly good.
Naut locks you down longer.
There's also a reason she's even completely outclassed in her main role rofl.
you do know in a completely perfect world for Nautilus, and all of his abilities, he actually does less burst than Leona. Sorry to break your bubble :/.
His CC is also only arguably more. And that's ONLY before Leona achieves a lot of CDR which is something Naut really can't afford in his kit/runes due to his W and abysmal attack speed.
His cds are also actually higher, even without Leonas cdr :B.
The only one that's lower than Leona's is his riptide, which is also an ability that temporarily roots himself to boot!
The only ability with really a higher scaling than Leonas is his Q. His E is entirely dependent on hitting all of the riptides to actually be more.
Also come late game: Naut's passive provides 110 damage every 6/5 seconds.
Leonas provides: 560 Every 30ish seconds, and then 420 every 8 there after.
I'm really failing to see where all this "more damage" is coming from.
Rammus really doesn't have 4x the damage unless he very specifically has thornmail, and very specifically gets the adc to attack him, Rammus can also only cc 1 person every 6 seconds with 40% cdr, and typically gets evaporated by apcs.
Desurat2 votesyou do know in a completely perfect world for Nautilus, and all of his abilities, he actually does less burst than Leona. Sorry to break your bubble :/.
His CC is also only arguably more. And that's ONLY before Leona achieves a lot of CDR which is something Naut really can't afford in his kit/runes due to his W and abysmal attack speed.
His cds are also actually higher, even without Leonas cdr :B.
The only one that's lower than Leona's is his riptide, which is also an ability that temporarily roots himself to boot!
The only ability with really a higher scaling than Leonas is his Q. His E is entirely dependent on hitting all of the riptides to actually be more.
Also come late game: Naut's passive provides 110 damage every 6/5 seconds.
Leonas provides: 560 Every 30ish seconds, and then 420 every 8 there after.
I'm really failing to see where all this "more damage" is coming from.
Rammus really doesn't have 4x the damage unless he very specifically has thornmail, and very specifically gets the adc to attack him, Rammus can also only cc 1 person every 6 seconds with 40% cdr, and typically gets evaporated by apcs.
Ok, allow her to proc half the passive on jungle monsters :3.
CaptnJakSparrow2 votesOk, allow her to proc half the passive on jungle monsters :3.
I'd be okay with that.
P3rro1 votesCould just do separate scalings for jungle monsters and champions
Support Evelynn2 votesBecause Leona needs the extra 300 damage in 1v1s as early as level 3.
I don't understand this comment.
Only Play Darius2 votesLiterally every jungler in the game has a theme that is appropriate for the role (its half the reason Nidalee was changed into a jungle, because it didn't make sense for female tarzan to be chucking spears in lane). Leona's theme is all about protecting her friends, it doesn't make sense for her to be spending half the game slashing at wild animals.
Support Evelynn1 votes[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vPj8Qcaw,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-09-16T22:02:12.306+0000)
Literally every jungler in the game has a theme that is appropriate for the role (its half the reason Nidalee was changed into a jungle, because it didn't make sense for female tarzan to be chucking spears in lane). Leona's theme is all about protecting her friends, it doesn't make sense for her to be spending half the game slashing at wild animals.
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Hard4Hamsters2 votesI wouldn't actually call her a low damage ganker. She has plenty of base damage at early levels; that in conjunction with her Q aa reset function gives her a good chunk of all-in, which makes her a threat in duo lanes as a support. She has quite a bit of burst with her passive and full combo. Now her damage DOES fall off lategame pretty hard but her early damage is comparable to most tank junglers right now, and she has reliable CC and tankiness to compliment her ability to be a really powerful ganker. She can jungle right now, it's just kinda weak clearwise, but double jungle can help her out a lot in that respect.
darkdill1 votesSadly, Riot would have to nerf bot-lane Leona to get this in, because Leona's already very strong as a support tank. I don't want Leona nerfs, so this can't happen.
The thing is, I still jungle full-tank as her and do fine; it's just not competitively viable due to how easily a coordinated team can shut it down with invades. Shaco and Lee Sin, in particular, are nightmares for jungle Leona to handle.
ForPortal3 votesJungle Leona buffs do not help Support Leona, so no, she wouldn't need to be nerfed in compensation. More than anything else, peak power is what is important. If a champion has multiple ways to approach that peak power level, that's a good thing.
MLDzXnRRR1 votesI've seen many times Leona to well in the jungle...
Support Evelynn1 votesI've seen many times Leona to well in the jungle...
Not saying it's impossible to jungle Leona, but it's by no means even a tier 2 jungler atm, and never will be till she gets some real clearing power.
MLDzXnRRR2 votes[{quoted}](name=Maya Fey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vPj8Qcaw,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-09-16T07:03:37.516+0000)
Not saying it's impossible to jungle Leona, but it's by no means even a tier 2 jungler atm, and never will be till she gets some real clearing power.
Many champions can jungle, but Riot doesn't want it. Imagine a world with jungle Rumble, Talon, Annie, Thresh etc. Even some "junglers" now have a terrible clear - Kha, Rengar, Evelynn - they almost die on the first few camps.
Incognonymous1 votesInteresting. I despise your shitposts on GD, but you make sense on G&B. HateDaddy makes sense on GD, but I depsise his posts on G&B.
In total agreement about Leona, this change would allow her to jungle and solo lane more effectively. This is an archaic passive that needs to be updated, and in the current context Braum has a better version of her on hit passive that he himself can activate without ANY resource investment. Leona has to actually use abilities and have some there to consume the mark. Braum autoattacks.
The Bearded Bard1 votesNope. She'd be waaaay too strong in the jungle and they'd have to nerf her to compensate, which would upset leona support players.
Incognonymous1 votes[{quoted}](name=I am Maokai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vPj8Qcaw,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2015-09-17T12:23:24.743+0000)
Nope. She'd be waaaay too strong in the jungle and they'd have to nerf her to compensate, which would upset leona support players.
The inverse isn't true though. Nautilus. Nautilus is a powerful jungler who's seen play as a successful support. Riot hasn't nerfed to compensate, and Naut junglers haven't been upset at the prospect. I disagree that Leona would "need" a nerf, for what, exactly? She's not doing anything that other champs can't do better. Sej and Amumu will still clear better. Naut will still have more CC. Volibear and Cho will still have more sustain.
Wheatloaf1 votesI'd disagree that she's low damage. Her passive does considerable amounts of damage.
Zedex1 votesThose early level 2 golems on blue that'd be cake now...
Besides that, they've stated in the past it was considered and in the end was too toxic to implement..I'm assuming it would end up like S2(or was it S3?) Alistair jungle who gave you 0 opportunity to react. Diversity is cool man, but she'd be flat out broken in the jungle.