The bans have encouraged weakness and entitlement

Lost R··2 votes·409 views

I don't like the bans. I support Riot in 99% of the decisions they make. One thing I did not like was when they expanded the bans from 6 to 10 total; one for everybody. Thankfully, they also gave an option to throw away the ban.

Guess what I choose now?

I used to always throw away my bans on a champion nobody played. I used to throw it away on Yorick, since nobody played Yorick. Then he got his rework and now, ironically, I play him all the time whenever I go top lane.

The bans encourage weakness. "But it's strategy by ban-" no. Everyone plays the exact same six champions and build the exact same thing and use the exact same strategy against ALL champions, regardless of their role, build and playstyle, which is just the same six champions everyone plays anyways. It isn't strategy if YOU don't change a damn thing no matter who you face against. It encourages weakness by banning whoever you perceive to be the strong meta at the moment or your counter or whatever.

Case in point, Darius. Darius is considered very strong in a glass cannon meta, which is basically all metas. Everyone wants all of the damage, so they all go all ADC/AD melee assassin in all roles, including support. Darius is strongest against fragile champions; it's his theme, to crush the weak, so with this overfocus on damage to the exclusion of things like defense, people are actively playing into the strengths of Darius and other champions like him.

In one game some weeks ago, I went Alistar support. When teamfights started happening, Darius would murderball our entire team, so I changed my tactics. I started not just focusing all of my crowd control on him, but shoving him with Headbutt far away from the teamfight while the rest of my team dealt with the enemy. I managed to get him from midlane into the river and jungle, all the while he couldn't hurt me because I was too durable, even with his Black Cleaver and passive armor pen, until my team finished his and came in to end him as well.

By banning the same champions all the time and never playing against them, you don't learn how they act, you don't learn to adapt to their strengths and exploit their weaknesses. I don't like saying this, but you don't learn to get good against them. Even worse, you continue to refuse to adapt and dig yourself deeper into the same old patterns and never learning to change your tactic if the current one doesn't work. I've said this before, but that is the thing that ruins the game's balance more than anything else.

When someone like me throws away their ban, I get a ton of shit from someone in the team without fail, who believes that on top of their own ban, they get mine as well. This is doubly true if you're a support, that somehow, the rest of the team believes they get to make the decisions for you. This degree of entitlement escalates to the point where, combined with the soul-annihilating defeatism in the culture right now, the entire team is ready to just give up before champions have even been picked, all because someone threw away their ban, much less when a champion IS picked.

This is why I want the champion bans to be banned. It has encouraged and exacerbated weakness in the community and coddled players who don't want to ever have to fight against champions like Darius, allowing them to never have to learn or adapt to changes in the game and entrench themselves even further into the same collective patterns to the point that the minions show more free will than they do.

6 Comments

Xion The XIV2 votes

But that is also a Problem. Like say I am going to play Mundo Top lane. Congrats the enemy just picked Fiora. I now get to play the Mini-game of do I die or does she? So I will lose about 90% of all fights I have with her unless it's a 2v1 gank then it's a toss up if she gets a double kill or a single kill.

I ban Kayn when I play Jungle Rammus my reason is because if he goes Darkin he can be low HP ult onto me go back to full hp and then either get away or ace the rest of the team with his team.

The problem with your theory is people feel entitled because you don't ban anyone. Another problem is the smart people ban who are a threat against them and the team. My bans are always different between the champion who I pick. That is how the bans are supposed to be. But what it turned into is ban that meta champion.

Lost R1 votes

If I was Mundo against Fiora, my tactic would be to whittle her down from range every chance I got and to actively NOT get in range with her until the health disparity was very far in my favor. Fiora's a duelist and excels in duels against just about everybody, but she lacks range and depends heavily on her mobility to strike at enemy weak points as a natural sustain. Keep her on one side of you at all costs, even if it means you have to lose ground, wear her out before you even get within melee range, and save whatever executes and hard crowd control you have until you are certain she has burned her parry.

The problem is everyone thinks they can just bum rush every champion, dump all their skills and get away with it without thinking of the champion as anything more than a stationary target. I've seen players tower dive Threshes under that mentality and wind up with a triple kill for Thresh.

Everyone plays as the exact same type of champion in all roles; the ADC/AD melee assassin who pines to be the killfastest killfast of Killfastia. I can't defend them against every possible weakness that kind of composition has (of which there are thousands), and they have to learn how unviable that is and that they have to start thinking of the bigger picture, not just themselves.

MarvelOtter1 votes

fair point. unrelated, what happened with the yorick rework? i played him a while back and stopped for a bit, but picked him back up recently due to arclight and he feels much stronger.(also what was the time frame on "used to" also, this is a team game, while i like to ban champs who counter me, you have 4 other people on your team to concern yourself with. and if a yasuo, vayne, fiora, twitch get fed, and you were thinking of banning that champ-you mightve lost the game just because of that.

Lost R1 votes

How long have you been playing?

Yorick's kit in its entirety was he'd summon a ghoul of some kind; one for each skill, and they were mechanically similar and almost visually identical. His ult was a semi-ghoul, and when the target died, they'd get a Sion-esque pre-death reverie of seven seconds to fight back until they died for real.

It was awful, because while Yorick was quite durable on his own, he didn't really interact with his kit very well to actually imply that he was a fighter, and his ghouls had less sentience than the minions and were equally unfun to play against.

The new Yorick is infinitely superior, because his role as a fighter is more defined, his relation with the ghouls are better defined, there are only two types of ghouls to deal with (the ghouls proper and the Maiden of the Mist), and most importantly, you KNOW when you are their target, HOW you are their target, and very much do NOT want to be.

also, this is a team game, while i like to ban champs who counter me, you have 4 other people on your team to concern yourself with. and if a yasuo, vayne, fiora, twitch get fed, and you were thinking of banning that champ-you mightve lost the game just because of that.

Rephrase that.

MarvelOtter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost R,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yONLsrOU,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-10-14T20:26:58.071+0000)

How long have you been playing?

Yorick's kit in its entirety was he'd summon a ghoul of some kind; one for each skill, and they were mechanically similar and almost visually identical. His ult was a semi-ghoul, and when the target died, they'd get a Sion-esque pre-death reverie of seven seconds to fight back until they died for real.

It was awful, because while Yorick was quite durable on his own, he didn't really interact with his kit very well to actually imply that he was a fighter, and his ghouls had less sentience than the minions and were equally unfun to play against.

The new Yorick is infinitely superior, because his role as a fighter is more defined, his relation with the ghouls are better defined, there are only two types of ghouls to deal with (the ghouls proper and the Maiden of the Mist), and most importantly, you KNOW when you are their target, HOW you are their target, and very much do NOT want to be.

Rephrase that.

nope, wasnt around for the original version. it feels like he got a mini buff sometime these past few months. losing because you didnt ban the champ that is an obvious ban just feels stupid

Provengreil1 votes

When riot redoes a champion, it usually takes a few months of re-jiggering their numbers pretty much every patch to find a decent balance(to say nothing of the fact that the whole game is in a general flux). Yorick wasn't all that long ago, really, so he would naturally have changed a bit.

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