"You're support. You don't matter."

Lost R·Feb 22, 2016·192 votes·10,685 views

Yeah. Way to belittle the important, yet least respected and increasingly rare role. The one guy who is most likely to actually give a damn about your well being, and you crap all over them. This is the kind of treatment of supports get that causes the role to be in so short supply. You treat them like they are nothing but a playable minion and ward mule. Gee, I wonder why no one wants to be the support, then!?

By the way, this wasn't in just one or two games. I heard this about fifty times this week alone. So congratulations. You're continuing to contribute to a negative environment that has finally started to affect you, and the best and worst part is you don't even realize you're doing it or that it's even affecting you. I wonder what you're going to do once you render the entire role extinct? You think game imbalance is bad NOW? We're the ones locking down all the Udyrs and Xins. Once we're gone, you are going to REALLY see what it's like to get fucked.

264 Comments

VahidSlayerOfAllFeb 22, 201655 votes

i have to say 10 year+ of online gaming and this is the worst community i have ever been a part of, and TF2 people post porn/decapitation gifs

bushy eyebrowsFeb 22, 201617 votes

700 hours of tf2 and i have never seen a decapitation spray (and i play gamemodes like saxton, wario ware and death run)

RevaliFeb 22, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=bushy eyebrows,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xxLEYqsc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-02-22T01:22:56.127+0000)

700 hours of tf2 and i have never seen a decapitation spray (and i play gamemodes like saxton, wario ware and death run)

4000+ hours an I can say the same, I have yet to see a decapitation spray maybe it's only because I play in valve servers 90% of the time

IqqiFeb 22, 20167 votes

{quoted}

i have to say 10 year+ of online gaming and this is the worst community i have ever been a part of, and TF2 people post porn/decapitation gifs

League has been this way since its inception. Long as we keep showing up Riot has no motivation to look at actually fighting the problem. People act this way because they get away with it, they lose nothing or gain nothing by being terrible people.

The best part is Riot refuses to acknowledge that they have a problem. Riot's official post located on their FAQ page mentions that over 92% of all their players are "Neutral or Positive".

The next paragraph is the best one.

IF OVER 92% OF ALL PLAYERS ARE NEUTRAL OR POSITIVE, WHY DO A LOT OF MY GAMES SEEM TOXIC? Players who are generally positive or at least neutral can have a bad day or week for any reason. If these players happen to be playing League of Legends when they feel frustrated or upset, they may be less likely to tolerate mistakes from fellow summoners, and start to rage or flame their teammates. As there are another nine players in the same match, any number of those players could become frustrated by a single summoner’s behavior, and will now have the potential to become a negative force in their own future games, causing the toxicity to spread, fast.

Basically Riots definition of a toxic player is extremely restricted and they don't care about the fact that 80% of their games have some form of toxicity that takes place. I am not in the high tiers, and from what I gather from the forums, the higher your rank, the greater the flaming. Either way Riot is perfectly fine with almost every game you play having a toxic player in there. That fact coupled with the fact that pre-game chat windows, and post game chat summary windows are not captured in their AI toxic player system and both ignore game muting and you realize that despite the best intentions of 99% of the community. The people at the top still hold all the power and Riot has clearly laid down their policy from day 1. If a change reduces their player base numbers, it will never happen.

kuhzooFeb 22, 20162 votes

You and I have very different experiences of this game.

I encounter toxic players periodically, and I report them when I do. It's been a while since I've seen one though.
Maybe it's because I mostly ignore chat, have /all chat disabled, maintain a 1 strike mute policy and I limit my own communication to 'good job', 'thanks' and pings. Also, if you add someone to your 'block' list, it mutes them in pre- and post-game as well as in-game. So that's how I deal with toxic players in champ select. Post game I just leave.
Maybe it's because I play predominantly draft/team-builder/dynamic Normal queue.

That said, in comparison with other games in this genre Riot is much more pro-active about player behavior. Not like it's a particularly high bar to beat, however they do put significant effort into it.

IqqiFeb 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You and I have very different experiences of this game.

I encounter toxic players periodically, and I report them when I do. It's been a while since I've seen one though.
Maybe it's because I mostly ignore chat, have /all chat disabled, maintain a 1 strike mute policy and I limit my own communication to 'good job', 'thanks' and pings. Also, if you add someone to your 'block' list, it mutes them in pre- and post-game as well as in-game. So that's how I deal with toxic players in champ select. Post game I just leave.
Maybe it's because I play predominantly draft/team-builder/dynamic Normal queue.

That said, in comparison with other games in this genre Riot is much more pro-active about player behavior. Not like it's a particularly high bar to beat, however they do put significant effort into it.

The mute features absolutely does _not_mute someone in the pre-game or post-game chats. It only mutes in game, blocks invites? and blocks chat.

Yes it seems you and I have very different experiences. Probably 98% of all my games are ranked which probably is the reason why I see so much more toxicity. I imagine if I played ARAM or Normals for 98% of my games instead I might have a completely different experience.

elon wątrobaFeb 22, 20162 votes

92% of players is neutral or positive, so there is about 4 negative players per 5 games.

Eevee In A JarFeb 23, 20163 votes

It's especially worse now. I've been here since season 1. Trust me. It's especially worse right now than ever. Toxicity is a bad word; everyone can be toxic. And even if you aren't you can be perceived as toxic to anybody. But Riot promotes this shit via shitty rank system that doesn't actually measure your own individual skill. Let's encourage elo boosting even though we say it's not allowed. Then all these easy ass champs being extremely strong and the fun champs to play are becoming weak. Literally look at who are powerful atm. A lot of stupid easy champs that are powerful for no reason. If they are easy to play, you'd expect they are weaker or some sort of balance. None of that. This is literally the worst season. This is coming from a guy who has defended Riot and League every season from people ranting like me. This season fking sucks a lot. And it's funny to see which type of people who defend it. Some bring legitimate points where I can't argue back. Mosts are just riding the freelo train because otherwise they'd be stuck in bronze. Not to say I'm any good but it's ridiculous someone comes into a game and acts like bronze. And this is happening every other game now. Every other game. Used to be just like 1 game out of 20. It shows how the current dynamic queue system is retarded and Riot you f'd up; trying to please scrubs in Bronze who say stuff like "Nidalee spears too strong; i cant be bothered to dodge them so nerf them Riot." Inb4 the downvotes.

How is it that a lane bully loses to a fucking mid-game early game with just a tear huh? We just had 2 seasons where you see Ezreal EVERY DAMN game and he's not even hard to play. And yeah I can pick Ezreal and be a little toolbag too but really is that "variety diversity" or whatever BS you were saying every DAMN BEGINNING OF THE SEASON!? Like I am forever forced to pick champs I hate because they are easy trash, and no matter how badly I do in lane with Ez or anyone else, they always become hella OP by the end and nearly untouchable.

DreadlocksFeb 22, 20162 votes

StarCraft's was 100x worse, idk if u ever played that game. Lol.

Andrysek57Feb 22, 201635 votes

Especially we do not stop to nerf for no good reason

item 3117 500 => 600 gold

Other lane item 3009 item 3158 800 => 600 ... They may have forgotten that the support have less gold ?

item 2049 4 ward => 3 ward

The removal of certain mastery that allowed the support caught up their delay

Result when the rest of the team is level 18 full build we we're level 12 with a ridiculous build item 2303 item 3190 item 3117

Aeolian MelodiesFeb 22, 201612 votes

{quoted}

Result when the rest of the team is level 18 full build we we're level 12 with a ridiculous build

If you are lvl 12 when everyone else is 18 and this is all you have when everyone else is full build, get out of the jungle, stop being afk, and rack up some assists.

Andrysek57Feb 22, 20161 votes

[deleted]

BetaDude40Feb 22, 20164 votes

Something tells me English isn't your first language. You might want to work on it a bit.

Andrysek57Feb 22, 201611 votes

Report google translate

BetaDude40Feb 22, 20167 votes

Google translate is very inaccurate based on what language you translate from. Some results you get are absolutely stupid.

MarshbouyFeb 22, 201626 votes

ive never heard anyone say this

KnoyleFeb 22, 20168 votes

I have actually heard someone say "Your survival ability doesn't matter, You're support" Yeah I guess staying in the fight longer to throw out more heals, stuns, roots, buffs, debuffs, kill opportunities, etc. don't matter.

Aeolian MelodiesFeb 22, 201613 votes

{quoted}

I have actually heard someone say "Your survival ability doesn't matter, You're support" Yeah I guess staying in the fight longer to throw out more heals, stuns, roots, buffs, debuffs, kill opportunities, etc. don't matter.

Well sometimes I'll say something like "runrunrun I'll die doesn't matter just get the fuck out", that doesn't mean "I don't matter", that means "in a you or me situation, I can die if necessary because you are worth more gold and your death gives them more opportunities than mine".

Don't you fucking turn around when I say "run" though. Everything other call I make can be debatable, but "run" really means RUN AND DON'T LOOK BACK AND I'M GOING TO KILL YOU IF YOU GET KILLED!

EmExFeb 22, 20162 votes

dont think ive ever heard this either and ive played this game for 2 years or so

AwesomeChadFeb 22, 201626 votes

Anyone who says the support doesn't matter is awful at league of legends. I am a diamond ADC main and I can't do ANYTHING in the laning phase unless my support is there to enable me (and I need my support to be the aggressor in lane as well). Help me get fed early on so I can get better items and be strong enough to carry in the mid-late game.

Players need to understand that supports help set-up kills and win conditions for the game. Support players need to understand that since they hold such an important role, they need to be more aggressive and create opportunities for their team.

Aeolian MelodiesFeb 22, 201610 votes

{quoted}

Anyone who says the support doesn't matter is awful at league of legends. I am a diamond ADC main and I can't do ANYTHING in the laning phase unless my support is there to enable me (and I need my support to be the aggressor in lane as well). Help me get fed early on so I can get better items and be strong enough to carry in the mid-late game.

[zombie-nunu-hearts]

ivnkoxhcucFeb 22, 201615 votes

I know the feel. Support main checking in. @_@

TekkenPlayerFeb 22, 201615 votes

Oh god, after playing Vayne pre-buff KogMaw and Twitch I realized that supports generally either win or lose the lane 80% of the time and it just makes my day when they ward properly, land the clutch CCs and deter the other laners from CSing. Probably 2nd most important role next to the jungler.

Who will keep people off the ADC? Who will even give wards for top to TP to especially in the meta of blue trinkets? Who will exhaust the tunneling assassins and burst mages.

DemonBoneJanglesFeb 22, 201611 votes

as a support main myself, your right, lately the supports that come out aren't being played as supports but more like cc tanks up top or in jungle, and the itemization is very bad for supports who depending on the team comp sacrifice much to defend alittle,

WeiseAzirFeb 22, 201610 votes

I don't always get an adc, but when I do he's done with nap nap time and eating play doh

Shinytoes20Feb 22, 20169 votes

It's depressing that the support role also keeps getting worse because the support items are being used by other lanes and abusing them, leading to the item being nerfed. (Ex: item 3092 )

FeelsBadMan

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

LordGeovanniFeb 22, 20162 votes

when they could tie lower cooldown or extra effects to the items with exaust like they did with jungle items with smite except i dont think they should have made the items require smite to buy some junglers can survive the jungle with out smite and smite was only meant as an 'option' to 'help' clear the jungle they could. that could make it as if you dont need smite but having it will make the jungle easier

ahferroin7Feb 22, 20164 votes

You're a fool if you think supports have to have exhaust...

There are exactly three junglers who have good objective control without smite: Nunu Chogath Olaf And Cho'Gath needs the support to follow him for the first rotation otherwise he gets ridiculously under-leveled.

There are by contrast a large number of supports who can run without exhaust: Leona Lulu Nautilus Fiddlesticks Taric Nami Orianna Zilean Zyra Thresh TahmKench Sejuani Pantheon Rammus Chogath LeeSin

Aeolian MelodiesFeb 22, 20162 votes

{quoted}

You're a fool if you think supports have to have exhaust...

There are exactly three junglers who have good objective control without smite: And Cho'Gath needs the support to follow him for the first rotation otherwise he gets ridiculously under-leveled.

There are by contrast a large number of supports who can run without exhaust:

Janna Morgana Sona

Rinky DinkyFeb 22, 20169 votes

It's funny because the support is the deciding factor of the botlane.

MaratsuneFeb 22, 20165 votes

I main support, and I think I've heard that sentiment like, once. There's other more subtle ways that people mistreat supports, and I feel like it's because they're just kinda ignorant more than anything. Gah, it's like actual real-life inequality issues.

AzteryzFeb 22, 20164 votes

in my opinon riot needs to make more support champs

there isnt a huge variety in terms of characters for supports

most are either innocent "frail looking" and the rest are either braum thresh and morg (pretty sure im missing some)

tl;dr rito make more supp champs they are fking awesome and always well received when you release them

ForwraithFeb 22, 20161 votes

Rather than that, I feel like Riot should buff some of the existing/unplayed support champions. I know they reworked Zilean a while back, but how many people actually play Zilean? He doesn't have too strong of a laning phase, and is relatively easy to gank (Base damage to his q increased, possibly...?). I figure they're going to start working on that seeing that Taric is supposed to get a rework (Please dear god let the Gem Lord of Leg Warmers be viable...). Plus, there's plenty of champions who have the potential to be an amazing support and would probably do well in that role. I could see a Galio rework becoming a strong support option.

DarkRitualFeb 22, 20161 votes

Zil's getting LCS play in mid lane, so his days as support are basically over untill nerfs hit him again.

Need a tank? Ali or Braum. Need some lockdown? Ali, Morgana, Lux, Bard Heals? Ali and Soraka Disengage? Ali and Janna Save your idiot teammates? Tahm and Thresh

Some buffs to give more options in those categories are nice, but I'd rather have the options be more interesting. As for needing buffs most, Sona and Zyra come to mind first for me.

cloman100Feb 22, 20162 votes

"Save your idiot teammates? Tahm and Thresh"

What if they don't click my lantern :(

WutsKrakenFeb 22, 20163 votes

Junglers share the pain. We're expected to massively outplay the enemy jungler and win every lane before we fall into obscurity because of our lack of gold. Hell, supports totally ruin our days usually because they can stop us dead in our tracks from making plays

VazEzrenFeb 22, 20167 votes

I definitely feel bad for jungle mains, you guys take so much shit for games that are being lost when the blame is not yours to bear. My duo partner is a jungle main, I've seen countless times laners push up to the enemy turret, get destroyed, come back to lane, and do the same thing like 3 or 4 more times. Then after they've fed Zed or Fiora or some other super snowbally champ, they complain that the jungler hasn't come to their lane. Other times all 3 lanes will be pushed to the towers and the jungler will be doing everything they can to gank 1 lane to get them ahead, then some other lane will complain that jungler isn't winning their lane for them because they picked Yasuo into Nasus .

I have to be honest, I don't actually know what the jungler's job is (this is due to the fact that I never get to play this role). If I had to take a guess I would say objective control. That being said, I know what's NOT the jungler's job, winning someone's lane for them. People often seem to think it's the jungler's job to spoon feed them so they can stomp their lane. It's also irritating when people expect you to gank every 10 seconds pre 6 with a champion that doesn't have good ganking power until 6, for example Diana or Warwick . I've also seen too many times where a jungler's camps are being invaded and they ping for help but none of the lanes want to leave to come help them. It's ok when the jungler is losing blue/red buff but god forbid a laner misses a cannon minion.

So to all the jungle mains out there, for all the stolen dragons/barons, for all the ganks, and for protecting our turret when we need to recall, thank you for having our backs! -Vaz-

LeadpaintchipsFeb 24, 20162 votes

What a Junger's role SHOULD be is to fill out a need for your team. Bot/mid lane isn't the best for peeling away from lane to secure objectives like dragon early? Grab someone who can do so. Your team needs a hard frontline, grab one of the tanks that can do so. Top/support is going tank, but you still need a bruiser? Grab one of those. Your frontline is good, but you need an assassin/carry? Those can work too. You have lanes that can snowball easy, they just need a kill or two ahead to get rolling? Grab someone who can fill out what they need (as in damage or cc, probably the cc). So in this sense, they are a lot like supports, in that they should be working with their team to shore up it weaknesses, but they have more flexibility in the sense that they can fill in more weaknesses, because they do have a steady source of xp/gold income, so they can play item based carries.

One of the major things that junglers need more than anything is speed. If it's just high mobility, fast clear times, or great dueling potential for those who counterjungle (IE: fast champion kill times). These are the marks of a good champion for jungling, and knowing your champions strengths and weaknesses is key. There are champions who don't have any of these that are good junglers, but they bring something else to the table that is stronger than their lack of speed, usually in the form of being healthier than others once they do a full or partial clear of their jungle.

Because of the speed, and their "lane" wanders across almost half the map, they were expected to, the same way that a support is, to put up vision, and to recognize and exploit mistakes from the opponents. This really gets me going for both the role of support and the role of jungle, because apparently you are supposed to have pro level of threat/weakness recognition, and the split second reactions/mechanical execution to respond to these situations. When I'm playing with people at my level, I'll make the same mistakes, same misclicks, same poor shot calls as them, but because of my play immediately affecting them instead of say, 5-10 minutes from now when my lane opponent decides to roam after they were just a better player and won the lane, they react instantly.

WinBoatFeb 22, 20163 votes

Your assists dont matter in the game according to most people.

Taric the GayFeb 22, 20163 votes

Gems

Solari FortuneFeb 22, 20163 votes

Supports mains, we must conduct an uprising against the tyrants of the other roles. Bring down the marksmen overlords and fight for equal treatment And get people to upgrade their dam trinkets

Pars FortunaFeb 22, 20163 votes

It's strange how people belittle supports so much... Especially with the LCS, which is there to show us what a really pro supp can do. And this is a lot!

HowPlayGAEMFeb 22, 20163 votes

[deleted]

Aeolian MelodiesFeb 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=OMG halp meh plz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xxLEYqsc,comment-id=003a,timestamp=2016-02-22T17:32:33.495+0000)

If supports mattered, why isn't the role more popular?

If it didn't matter, why would it be mandatory in pro games?

It's not popular because people want to be the star.

HowPlayGAEMFeb 22, 20163 votes

[deleted]

PartholonianFeb 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=OMG halp meh plz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xxLEYqsc,comment-id=003a00010000,timestamp=2016-02-22T19:17:43.331+0000)

Let's put it another way then:

If it was 4v4, would support champs be picked? Aside from a few exceptions, the answer would be no.

Assuming you're ruling out all the flex picks like Poppy, Lulu, Lux, Nunu and Nautilus from the category of "support champs". Trundle has seen some high level support play too.

Considering most non-flex supports have been nerfed specifically to keep them out of solo lane and/or jungle viability at least once, some several times... yeah, it's not surprising that their current balance state is not solo lane viable. When you have a kit that is great at working with others you often have a kit that is bad at working without others -- or Riot will nerf you until you do.

On the other hand, when you have a map where grouping happens constantly and everyone is assured a decent gold income whether their champion last hits well or not, i.e. ARAM... then most supports are top tier or outright OP even after the map-specific nerfs to sustain, and this is only partly concealed by the fact that you can't pick them on purpose.

The laning phase doesn't create 1 slot where supports are good so much as it creates 3-4 slots where supports are bad, hiding how strong their kits truly are at equal gold and exp.

MatezoideFeb 23, 20163 votes

“A good roadie knows his whole job is to make someone else look good, keep someone else safe, help someone else do what they were put here to do. A good roadie stays out of the spotlight. If he's doing his job right, you don't even know he's there. Once in a while he might step on stage just to fix a problem, to set something right. But then before you even realize he was there or what he did, he's gone.” — Eddie Riggs

Really, just replace ''Roadie'' with ''Support'' and it is perfect. Nobody appreciates the jobs that arent in the spotlight, thats just how it goes everywhere.

If they think they dont need you, it means you are doing your job right.

TTUPhoenixFeb 23, 20162 votes

Upvoted for Brutal Legacy, and because it's fitting.

GypsyleeboyFeb 22, 20162 votes

I CAN NOT stress enough that a support is important But, in a way there is an exception to supports being useless. I hate when people who get support and try to play the role their primary was. Like I've seen countless Annie supports that 100% of the time always get more kills than their adc, or all of the team combined. There's the ahri support, ezreal, nidalee, zyra, and so many more that violate the meaning of supporting the team, instead being the carry themselves and being worst if they constantly KS team mates, leaving no growth of the team except yourself

Because of this, I main support in ranked games and it's turned out great.. If you can't trust someone with an important role, you must play it, and this shows that it's true "Supports are IMPORTANT"

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=gypsyleeboy

I've never had a win ratio like i have now EVER in the past, now that i play support. I won 8 of 10 placements, And currently have 14 wins and only 4 losses (78% win ratio). Before, i had 2 of 10 placements, and roughly a 35% win ratio

VazEzrenFeb 22, 20164 votes

Funny enough maining Nami and Leona support is what got me out of Bronze last season. Went all the way from B3 to S5 with probably 80% of my games as support and half of those as Leona. I won probably about 60% of those matches. I found that when I was in a carry role half the time even if I won my lane the rest of my team would get stomped to dust. Things went much better when I was able to spoon feed them with well placed CC, or waiting for Zeds to ult and landing a bubble right as they come out of it. Often times I would have no boots and 6 active items and I'd be throwing shields, buffs, and cleanses all over the place. People don't realize it, but the insane amounts of utility that supports bring to the table can turn the tides of teamfights when placed in the right hands. I was always taught that the support's job is to maximize your team's potential in fights, and a good support can carry a team this way. I'm always asking myself "What champion can I pick to maximize the power of this team comp?" or "What items do I need to build to keep things in our favor?"

Although this season, because of how bursty everyone is and how quickly teamfights go, I haven't been doing so good. There's so little time to react to anything anymore that people die faster than I can heal them, or cleanse debuffs, hell even shields from item 3190 item 3401 feel pretty weak half the time. Building armor is almost pointless because everyone either does %hp true damage or has armor pen on every single item. Can't really build damage either because most support champions have god awful scalings. I feel like playing support this season just sucks, the only supports that really stand a chance in this meta are super tanks like Alistar and Braum . There's a few other supports that are viable too, but Janna has been meta for years and Bard might as well be in the same class as taking a mid laner for support. With the gold and xp gap combined with how quick fights are I feel like the only things I'm ever good for anymore is being a ward machine, a distraction, or setting up a few kills early game. Once it gets to mid game though it feels like everything is out of my hands. I feel like my skill level peaked around mid to late season 5, then ever since I've just been playing worse or something. Support just isn't that fun anymore, I really hope Riot gets around to a support update or something.