State of the champions.

deadlychuck··3 votes·585 views

It's terrible. AD has to many advantages over AP. Bruisers have are being given to much of everything. Crit chance needs to go. Mobility is still growing. Armor uniques only care about auto attacks not AD skills. There are huge item gaps (in terms of stat combos). The only counter to CC is 2 items item 3111 item 3172, btw neither are AP/ANTI-AD. The only two anti-burst items are MR/HP and Armor/APitem 3157 item 3102. lifesteal is light-years ahead of spell vamp for no real reason. Also should mana still be a thing, or can we just scrap that mechanic already?

As a 5v5 game, the game is still getting better and is better than it has been in the past. Although, the list of viable team comps is still being cut short because of how poorly champions are being balanced against each other on an individual level. A team comp might have potential, but if you can't make it past the mid game without being massively behind or losing your nexus, then it doesn't matter.

13 Comments

FyshinaTux1 votes

I'm contemplating making a big long thread about this soon... gotta do a touch of research first, and learn how to format well on these boards. xD

Does a Rioter know by chance what the character limit is for 1 post on here? >.>

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

ap mages have better items so i dont see ad champs having advantage counter to cc is a mercurical scimitar and qqs at least to some, besides that there is no counter to cc (after all it has to be uncountrable)

items are MR/HP and Armor/AP

this item 3001 item 3027 item 3174 item 3116 item 3151 i think this should cover this topic

spellwamp is something riot has to rework (they said so themselves, think about it like about urgot, sheduled for a rework)

the list of viable team comps is still being cut short because of how poorly champions are being balanced against each other on an individual level.

the list of viable playstyles is quite long and makes use of almoust every champ besides those whiich are scheduled for rework due to being completly unfiting to anything, in actual game it all rewolves around skill

A team comp might have potential, but if you can't make it past the mid game without being massively behind or losing your nexus, then it doesn't matter.

if all lanes fail and you dont even have chances in mid game, no teamcomp will work

i think that you compare lcs to soloq, if something has lets say 10 dmg more that something else, lcs players will always want that despite the diference being so small and unnoticeable, cause money

when it comes to actualy game beetwen ppl who are playing (not working) you can actualy use everything effectively (even urgot, and i saw one)

deadlychuck1 votes

That's not totally true, the counter to CC is not getting hit by it, because a lot of CC is based on skill shots, it means mobility is the best counter to CC next to actually reducing it's effectiveness.

In terms of the items for mages, what you just gave offer almost nothing in terms of actual options. What happens when you build item 3116 + item 3027 + item 3151 and the enemy builds a item 3153? All of that health is made useless, and that's assuming they don't have kind of natural % damage or an execute.

You're actually just looking at it wrong, yes just about any champion can be played given the correct conditions, although the viability of all champions is still based on if people are willing to stick to the meta... if you need proof look at what happened when riven started getting played mid...

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

ppl will always stick to the meta cause they are stupid enough to believe that it will make them win

also when you will build those items you will probably eat an adc with bortk with 1 combo cause he is squishy hages usualy have low cooldown burst which decimates adc's, adc's on the other hand have lifesteal to help them, and mages dont pay so hard for building defense, or rather they can keep defense going with ofense toe to toesurvive sustained dmg, overall in combat apc is stronger than adc

deadlychuck1 votes

And you know, you're right, you will eat an adc alive, but it's not the ADCs who are the problem with uniques like that, all the ADCs in the game care about is crit chance.

The problem is more the AD bruisers who stays ahead in defense, but also takes one or two damage items and are set with enough damage to slaughter you for the rest of the game.

Also people wouldn't stick to just the meta, if items gave valid options other than item 3191, then you might actually see more champions in different positions. Also ADCs provide a consistent source of damage in fights, APC are burst heavy by nature, that doesn't mean they are more useful in fights though.

AD bruisers though, most get the skill burst of APCs, and then consistent damage rivaling ADCs, along with higher health and armor stats either by default or by itemization.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

The problem is more the AD bruisers who stays ahead in defense, but also takes one or two damage items and are set with enough damage to slaughter you for the rest of the game.

rito tries to rework them to make them less ... everything as they are atm

Miles Lupine1 votes

Part of the reason why they probably limit stat combinations is to force people to itemize better instead of just grabbing tons of jack of all trades items.

Mana actually is used to gate certain champions so they don't just spam their skills forever. Would you really want to face a Ziggs that can never be out of mana? The energy system has a similar purpose as the mana system but more limited.

Viable and optimal comps are not the same thing. Just because it isn't optimal doesn't mean it isn't viable. Seen some strange stuff work simply because it throws people off enough since is not seen often.

deadlychuck1 votes

Ziggs is his own case, he is easily the most powerful of mages, because a lot of the things that mages lack they gave exclusively to him. Although, really just about every mage in the game already builds enough items to more or less ignore their mana... That's half the reason why item 3174 is stupidly popular even after removing some of the MR.

Miles Lupine1 votes

Ziggs is just one of the easier examples to show why mana needs to be around. There are several other champions that actually need to be held back somehow. If not we would have several things like Blitzcrank being able to throw as many wiffs as he wants and no worry about not being able to try again as soon as CD is done. Yorick and unstoppable spam. Hecarim being a helicopter more or less. Swain and infinite ulti. And don't forget all the healers that can just then spam heals. Removing mana would require massive reworks all around to try to keep some balance in the game. Every game would just be like URF without the extreme CDR then and a lot less tactical. So yeah mana is more of a way to keep some balance just by preventing everyone from spamming everything everychance they get.

deadlychuck1 votes

I'm not advocating removing mana across the board, i'm saying some champions who should have to worry about it don't, and others who do worry about it don't get enough out of the price.

I'm just saying that they have not done a good job at targeting the places that need to have mana adjusted in cases. Not small amounts, but large costs, that really have no justification for the things, like why does Sejuani even need mana? Or why does Mordekaiser have health costs, when all it does is force him to buy at least 1 spell vamp item?

Miles Lupine1 votes

You did say scrap the mechanic so you kinda did say to just remove mana.

deadlychuck1 votes

You're right, but out extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and i'm not giving reasons why removing mana across the board would be a good thing. Just that the state that the resource right now is terrible, and inconsistent. Again some champions shouldn't even have mana Sejuani Volibear JarvanIV Fiora Braum Thresh XinZhao MonkeyKing pre-buff Maokai and i'd argue Nocturne, because it holds them back to much or they just completely ignore it. Some of those use way more mana than they should or only notice they have mana when they miss that kill by the skin of their teeth. Look at all the champions who don't have a resource and are still "balanced".

Other have to build items to manage the resource rather than building strait damage, which is actually fine. They have the option to build nothing but damage, but should have to sacrifice the sustain of resources that they'd otherwise get.

Miles Lupine1 votes

Then why did you say scrap it in the first place? You were implying you hated the system big time and just wanted it gone. You didn't say anything about exceptions with your original post. Plus when it comes to truly resourceless champs there are only 4 in reality and those are Garen, Riven , and Katarina and maybe a forth if you don't count part of Yasuo 's passive . Energy, fury, rage, Hp, and energy are all resources. So yeah saying to only look at 3 or 4 champs is not much to look at. And Riven actually got nerfed hard in the past due to her constantly stomping early game. The mana system helps hold back some champs that would just completely stomp the early game without something to hold them back. It would take a long time to rebalance the greater majority of champs that do rely on mana and all of the items that would need changed.

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