Boards›Gameplay

stop acting like cho was always a problem

Big Lincoln··140 votes·5,502 views

up until they changed his silence (and by extension his reliability) in s6 cho was always a champion who shifted in and out of meta based on counter picks. much like trundle, cho's appearance usually meant that champions he counters are strong (assassins and casters). for most of his life he's been a fairly balanced champion, and IMO his natural shift in and out of power is what we should want more champions to do

With the reliability that made him such a strong anti caster gone cho became COMPLETE trash and little number buffs and an ult rework didn't help that. So, Riot restored reliability elsewhere on his kit, his E. And then, when he actually gets to stick, all of those previous buffs (and items that he likes being buffed-- righteous, cinder, this is just as important as the creation of stoneplate) suddenly compounded to make him a monster right now. His niche has changed from anti caster to anti squishy.

But don't get all twisted. Cho needs that reliability in some form. His current state of power can be solved through simple numbers changes and down-tuning some of the buffs he's gotten. He's not a problem champion, he's not a balance nightmare. He's just overtuned.

160 Comments

Wukong Airlines50 votes

Chogath was never a problem, until the balance team decided to experiment on him give him Hp% scaling damage on his E and R.

The E % HP damage is justified, but why should a TANK be able to delete and squishy with 2K true damage and still be unkillable?

Cloud2739 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monkey D Wuffy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yJiz5dTs,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-07-22T15:58:41.405+0000)

Chogath was never a problem, until the balance team decided to experiment on him give him Hp% scaling damage on his E and R.

The E % HP damage is justified, but why should a TANK be able to delete and squishy with 2K true damage and still be unkillable?

He's a HUGE void monster taking a bite out of you. It's going to hurt A LOT. As he gets bigger, his mouth gets bigger and so he's able to take a larger bite out of you. That's how I rationalize it at least.

Marshbouy3 votes

Teemo is a fucking rat. How should he be able to damage AurelionSol orChogath

Doctor Dyment2 votes

a rat with a poisonous pipe

Mimr1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Monkey D Wuffy,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yJiz5dTs,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-07-22T15:58:41.405+0000)

Chogath was never a problem, until the balance team decided to experiment on him give him Hp% scaling damage on his E and R.

The E % HP damage is justified, but why should a TANK be able to delete and squishy with 2K true damage and still be unkillable?

The problem in this case is Stoneplate not reducing true damage when activated, not Cho'Gath.

What Is Smite5 votes

Well to be fair that's Riot's fault for how they coded true damage, rather than damage from a champion it's coded as damage from the summoner/system as such reductions aren't applied

Erractic Eick2 votes

Okay, just for the record, Cho'Gath is not and has never been a tank. He is a juggernaut. Damage is his responsibility.

What I don't like is his additional stickiness with E giving him more reliable damage output, but regardless, Cho is about delivering damage, not peel.

Edit: I stand corrected. He is not a Juggernaut either. However, I do feel this role is more suited to his play style than being shunted into the role of a mediocre tank.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

He is a juggernaut.

nope

Darius Dr. Mundo Garen Illaoi Mordekaiser Nasus Shyvana Trundle Udyr Volibear Yorick

http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses

Sahn Uzal5 votes

Not a tank either tho, he's an unique playstyle champion. A special snowflake, like I like to call that group of champions :^)

EcchiOtakuTM2 votes

He is actually a tank, he packs more than enough hard CC and survivability to be considered one. While he is also a mage because he packs quite a large chunk of magical damage while being viable if built that way.

Roles aren't defined by items but by innate base kit.

Ralanr3 votes

He shouldn't have gotten those damage scalings with his CC.

Sahn Uzal3 votes

Yes, you're right about that, roles aren't defined by base kit.

Which is why Riot listed Cho'Gath among a group of champions that are too unique to be classified ''in these little boxes''

Sahn Uzal12 votes

Cho'Gath has quite an identiy crisis, he doesn't really seem to know what he wants to be. Is he a Mage? Is he a Vanguard? is he a Juggernaut?

For now, Riot classifies him as a unique playstyle. He's not a tank, not a juggernaut, not a mage. He's just Cho'Gath.

EcchiOtakuTM5 votes

He isn't a juggernaut tbh, he has more than enough ranged influence with just Q+W alone.

And he has more CC than some tanks.

He 100% cannot be a juggernaut.

Big Lincoln2 votes

, he has more than enough ranged influence with just Q+W alone.

Illaoi DrMundo Mordekaiser

too much CC is why he's an abomination atm

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

Mudno isn't a juggernaut either, he has far too much reliable poke with just Q. Mundo can literally just

Illaoi's is unreliable since any shoes being bought can dodge her Q+E every time it's used.

Morde's barely goes to a ranged unit's AA range with his E.

Mundo is not a tank nor juggernaut and they aren't planning on reworking him to fit a role better sadly even though there's an easy way to do so.

Big Lincoln2 votes

mundo is listed as a juggernaut

Illaoi's is unreliable since any shoes being bought can dodge her Q+E every time it's used.

in theory

Critmaster Garen19 votes

dont know why this is downvoted.

riot should shift him back to more reliable cc and into the direction of a play making tank and less damage in his base kit imo. the entire buff to his e with stack scaling % health damage was a terrible idea.

instead they could have just sped up his silence animation.

the idea of a tank juggernaut is just not going to work.

depending on what cho mains want, the alternative would be to remove the knockup from his q and just keep it a slow, and make him a full on juggernaut.

Big Lincoln4 votes

i think you could just reduce his threat range, particularly on Q

he feels very bruiser like atm but he has too much CC for it. that said I think right now Q and W are core to his kit and if he gets another rework his W should stay for sure

I don't think he needs % damage at all with the same logic of Darius; having a giant flat true damage nuke. The slow on E is more than enough but could be tweaked some more

Critmaster Garen3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yJiz5dTs,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-22T12:51:30.660+0000)

i think you could just reduce his threat range, particularly on Q

he feels very bruiser like atm but he has too much CC for it. that said I think right now Q and W are core to his kit and if he gets another rework his W should stay for sure

I don't think he needs % damage at all with the same logic of Darius; having a giant flat true damage nuke. The slow on E is more than enough but could be tweaked some more

even if they want to keep him a juggernaut, i dont think the silence is much of an issue. its still relatively short range.

its more the combination of the knockup and the silence that make him too much of a tank.

well, or the e that makes him too much of a bruiser.

Big Lincoln5 votes

i was thinking about that

What if we played up his anti caster nature again? make Q ground instead of knockup, so instead of it being generically good It specifically fucks over champs who need their spells for mobility and damage

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Because Grounded fucks Flash too.

Big Lincoln6 votes

then take ghost

GayFluffyUnicorn1 votes

No just stop adding grounded. This grounded is the most toxic CC riot has ever added into this fucking game. When champs like camille or zed for example have a great deal of their power budget tied to their mobility it is outright unfair that the instant someone presses one button you become absolutey useless and can't do anything and just wait to die. Counters to mobility need to exists but not in this form that you can't even flash anymore.

Atanchan9 votes

... How the hell can grounded be the most toxic CC, even with that logic? Did you forget that silences exist and do exactly what grounded does, but for every ability?

I Main Swain3 votes

i think if they were to change the cc on his q it would have to be to remove the slow and not the knock up, without the knockup he just wont catch anyone

Quort8 votes

He may not have always been a problem, but I always hated fighting him!

SweedishGunner7 votes

I want AP Cho back. Having true damage scaling off bonus health is pretty mental.

ZT Xperimentor7 votes

Just change the interaction with stoneplate, and remove the slow on his E. His Q decides who's a good player with him already.

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

I'd rather the %Max Health damage be removed from his E.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Why's that?

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Because Cho's only movement impairing CC before that addition was on his Q only. By having that slow on his E you can keep people in your area of influence much easier and longer.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Indeed, though since he can infinitely scale now, I'd say giving him easier reliability is a bad idea. Syndra got gutted because riot's rework made her easier to play, on the other hand sion's rework made him pretty clunky to keep him from snowballing too quickly.

Nyarlathοtep5 votes

They cant just change the interaction with stoneplate. True dmg cant be reduced not matter what.

Bârd6 votes

Cho by himself is solid. Maybe a bit strong, but not really OP due to how easy it is to just avoid him.

Stoneplate is a completely balanced item for the vast majority of the roster.

When combined, however, things get hairy. It's cheese, but it's giving unreal levels of unintended power. Same thing for stoneplate with locket, TK, Taric, CoC, STB, and (to a lesser extent) Maokai.

Stoneplate effectively gives 50% damage reduction for 5 seconds at the cost of a 60% reduction to your own damage output. If they would make it just do that directly instead of by giving double HP, it would eliminate the cheese surrounding Stoneplate without touching the items intended effects, so both the item and its abusers would get out without being gutted.

VelvetCrotch4 votes

Cho's ult was always the better Darius ult. and doesn't it stack now infinitely? And now his E is f broken.

Romans VI XXIII5 votes

yes, and is not reduced by the active of item 3193 which is the main issue

Danjeng5 votes

Cho can't pentadunk though.

VelvetCrotch2 votes

who cares if u do true dmg and can stack into oblivion?

Sqkerg6 votes

I'm sorry since when does Darius ult not do true damage?

VelvetCrotch1 votes

only when he get full stacks on his target. cho doesnt need this more... complex design.

Sqkerg3 votes

Pretty sure Darius ult does true damage no matter what.

VelvetCrotch1 votes

if u cant get all stack on his target, ult dmg is ridiculous low.

Sqkerg2 votes

Low true damage is still true damage. Also Darius's ult resets on kill, and his passive alleviates that problem in a teamfight to a degree.

Shadòw4 votes

his whole kit is outdated.

he needs a full VGU

Naching3 votes

No thanks. He is one of the more fun kits in the whole game.

Shadòw3 votes

lmao.

Naching6 votes

Your lmao opinión about fun is trash for me.

He doesnt need a rework only because you said hahaha

The reality is people play chogath since always because they liike him even when he wasnt viable but the players were mermaid because the greats weaks on Chogat... Now some was fixed so he is in the meta and more popular then the criers and bad losers come here claiming for nerfs, reworks, etc.. Hahaha

It is fun to see the rage but sad too

If you claim for reworks check what champs are dead and unplayable first, not the played and doing well.

A Bepi1 votes

The hp% scaling on his ult is the problem and the sync it has with stone plate. Just change it back to ap and everything should be ok

Naching4 votes

The problem is stoneplate... No Cho's fault....

Cho's R is perfect and balanced... Stop trying to nerf a champ only because a item have some error

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Big Lincoln

these "upvote if you agree" threads are cancer
Memes & Games44 comments
268
votes
Look at all this GHOSTINESS
Story, Art, & Sound90 comments
241
votes
viktor changes are awful
Gameplay92 comments
185
votes
Generalists are bad and we want to rework tanks to be not that
Gameplay130 comments
170
votes
Have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by Warwick
Gameplay261 comments
159
votes
Why is Swain getting nerfed
Gameplay229 comments
157
votes