Is there truth to the "Never gank a losing lane" strategy?

PopcornBunni·Jul 12, 2019·15 votes·10,754 views

And if there is, what is a jungler supposed to do when every lane is losing the 1v1 / 2v2 ? Power farm and invade, and hope the enemy is nice enough to not take the inhibitor at 14 minutes?

38 Comments

Critmaster GarenJul 12, 201913 votes

no.

if you can secure a shutdown and thats a snowball lane, you gank it. the only question is, how high are your chances to get the kill.

TargonJul 12, 201913 votes

It really depends I think.

If a lane is losing because they've been counter picked or is weak early but scales well, then ganking for them can prevent them from falling far behind (e.g. ganking for Kayle against Aatrox ). Or sometimes, a lane is losing but if they get one kill or assist they'll probably be fine (e.g. ganking for Maokai against Teemo and then Maokai is able to build some MR and mitigate a lot of Teemo's harass).

If the lane is losing in a match up they should normally win though (e.g. if your Riven is losing against Shen ), or if ganking probably won't result in huge payoffs (e.g. you gank for TahmKench against Vayne but Tahm will fall off quite a bit later), then I'd personally avoid ganking for that lane and try to gank for another lane that can deal with a potentially fed enemy later on.

Mitsuk3Jul 13, 20191 votes

Nice talking about toplane only.

BackdoorPrincessJul 13, 20191 votes

Mid is a snowball burstfest that tilts easier and botlane has two people to rely on if I gank, so if i'm picking one of the 3, it's gonna be the one that pretty usually has some form of cc, teleport, generally has demolish, and means I can force their jungler to countergank for a free drag on botside.

Midlaners generally don't have cc or only have burst, which if behind means the other is going to have more, on top of the lane being short enough that unless they are massively overextended, it's pretty easy to get away/have a jungler nearby (with it being in the middle of the map). Botside probably has best kill potential since you would (hopefully) have two forms of cc with the support, but entirely depends on if your adc knows when to engage with you instead of prioritizing minions, or support doesn't miss.

Ganking losing lanes there's always a tradeoff, but toplane tends to get favored based on seclusion and ease of access (as in you can just run through tribush to gank since river is warded or vice-versa) on top of the turret platings feel safer. Again, midlane the jungler can just hop on over from any camp within 15 seconds (and midlaners arent known for tower destruction in this meta until late game), and I'll take the most turret platings possible to snowball harder. Even 1 turret plating is a couple of control wards that I wouldn't have had before,first turret is more gold in general, and tilting a laner is definitely worth it also.

TargonJul 13, 20192 votes

The same applies to mid and bot lane too but top lane tends to get abandoned the most frequently (at least from my experience) so I set my examples around that.

ChaosReynJul 13, 20193 votes

I mean, top lane is the one that's quite literally ALWAYS bitching about never being ganked when they're losing lane...why would anyone NOT talk about top lane? [sg-janna]

BLACK REALM GODJul 12, 201910 votes

"never" is inherently wrong to assume correct for every scenario. In fact you should never always do something if you're trying to win in a strategy game.

The purpose of the jungler is to help out whatever lane is being oppressed by the enemy jungler or to farm xp and gold in the jungle. if the reason a lane is losing is because an enemy jungler is camping it then that means you're not keeping tabs on the enemy jungler.

in a 1v1 matchup where a champion is losing to their opponent it would be to your advantage to assist in re-balancing the scales.

the concept of "never" helping your ally if they're losing is because it assumes that this player is bad and won't know how to utilize the gold you've given them all while resetting their bounty or that the champion can't benefit the team late game. This thinking is negative in nature and assumes the worst.

When choosing between two different lanes to help... go to the closest one. i recommend helping your mid laner before helping top or bottom because your mid laner controls the center of the map and should be nearing their powerspike during the 15 minute mark of the game. also, top laner's are intended to be durable and bottom laners have support. the mid laner is the easiest lane to dive due to the nature of the extreme high levels of damage that a mid laner can put out without needing to go under tower.

but the important thing to remember is that gold and xp are what matter. if you go to a lane, but you're unable to help and the enemy jungler isn't in a lane then you're putting yourself behind.

rujitraJul 12, 20196 votes

So, yes and no.

Should you gank a losing lane for pressure? Almost always not. When you gank a lane, the enemy jungle may look to “make up for it” by ganking shortly after (or even counterganking). Thus, if you’re ganking a losing lane for no reason other than to poke, do a bit of damage, make them miss part of a wave, or any other form of “pressure” gank, then it’s neutral at best, and possibly harmful. Plus, keep in mind that if the lane is losing, it’s harder to gank to begin with given the enemy will be in a stronger position overall (items, levels, vision, etc).

Should you gank a losing lane when there is a good opportunity to either get kills or set up for an objective? Hell yeah. Let’s say your botlane is losing hard, but an infernal dragon is spawning in 15 seconds. If you can get in there and do enough damage to cause their ADC and support to back for low health/mana/whatever, then you can get dragon and your botlane can either help you get drag if you really need it, or get turret/plates otherwise. Similarly, there is value in ganking a losing lane to save your own objectives such as towers or dragon. If you aren’t in a position to get dragon at the time (let’s say mid’s MIA, ADC/support is MIA also, and you don’t know where they may pounce on you), but you can gank bot and get them off your turret, that’s also useful.

So, TLDR, sometimes yes, sometimes no. Ganking just to gank in a losing lane is not helpful. Ganking for good reasons is always helpful.

KattzyJul 12, 20193 votes

Hey man, what happened to your specialist (or was it herald? or mod? can't remember atm) tag?

rujitraJul 12, 20193 votes

I'm a Player Behavior board specialist, it only shows up on that board.

KattzyJul 12, 20193 votes

Oh cool, didn't know that! Thanks :)

EybdoogJul 12, 20195 votes

Conditional

100% yes to don't gank a losing lane if it's a lane that should NOT be losing. You'll need to learn your matchups to know this

No if 2 conditions apply

Your laner is only losing because enemy jungler/support/etc has been camping. And a gank can actually bring the matchup closer to parity.
If your laner is in a bad matchup ganks can simply help your laner get to team fight stage before the game is over from enemy snowball. In these cases look to gank sooner than later

General Esdeath Jul 13, 20195 votes

Yes and no.

You should avoid a losing lane until the other 2 are ahead. HOWEVER, a losing lane is not someone who is 0/1 and down 20 cs. If your top lane is a 0/4 Renekton with 30 CS at 10 minutes vs a 4/0 Darius with a complete item and 89 cs, yeah don't touch that.

YerroFeverJul 13, 20193 votes

Errr.... there's some truth to it, but the thing is, it's kind of hard to really give you a yes or no because it's so dependent on the situation.

Is the player going to be totally useless if they get the gank and you get the kill anyway? If the answer is yes, then don't gank. Like if someone goes soraka top, she isn't going to be a powerhouse hypercarry and she can still contribute once she hits 6.

There are just certain situations where it works out and certain situations where it doesn't work out. So for example, if you have a lane that doesn't know how to CS and a lane that doesn't know how to trade, then yeah, you're probably better off not ganking that lane. However, if it's that the enemy is only slightly ahead and winning but the gap can be closed, totally gank that lane.

FioraWillCarryJul 13, 20192 votes

Surrender. I don't know why no one ever considers this. Not every game is winnable.

iamblambJul 12, 20191 votes

I had a game last night where I was jungling vs a really solid 3-man. Top and bot were losing. HARD. I put all my eggs in the basket that was our midlane katarina and we ended up winning the game. You have to play around your win condition. Sometimes that win condition is just keeping the other team off the one person who is outputting damage on your team.

IllabetheJul 12, 20191 votes

Sort of. If there is a losing lane, you need to evaluate WHY they are losing and how fast they are going to lose real-estate, and how much you can comparatively move real estate by helping someone else.

If they are in a 52- 48% counter lane, and that is the only reason they are having trouble, aren't overpushing, are warding okay, and possibly show some signs of skill, then yes; gank them. You might be able to tilt them into that 48% Win side of the equation.

If they are just bad warders, overpush, are hard countered while the rest of the team is not, tell them to turtle, and then gank other lanes. Keep an eye on how quickly top takes their turret and pushes the second one. You may have to make important decisions around that.

If every lane is losing, you need to learn which one is losing the LEAST, warding the best, and augment their position. YES. Invade that side of the map. Establish a base around that lane both behind and in front of it. Force the other jungler to take awkward routes, but always control the berries. Map objectives play a role in this decision too. Take gaps in opposite jungle awareness and take a drake while he's destroying your laner.

Truth is, it's case by case basis.

HateDaddyJul 12, 20191 votes

It depends.

Sometimes as a solo laner it’s beneficial to let your tower fall and just farm, or group. It depends on what your team is doing. If they’re ahead, you probably have the luxury of farming some. If they are even or behind, it is probably ideal to let the tower fall and group - ideally while they are shoving the tower down and you can force an unbalanced engage in your favor. You also have the option of asking bot to swap out if you’re top lane but this forfeits dragon, so it depends what the dragon type is, where your bot lane is compared to the enemy and even how strong your mid is.

For a jungler, what and where you gank depends on what is happening above. If the enemy top is ahead, shoving hard and you don’t see the enemy jungler on the map, then they are most certainly setting up a dive top. You just want to be there, you don’t necessarily want to gank. If, however, you learn the enemy jungler is elsewhere at this point or even when you’re going to defend what you perceive as an incoming dive, then it is safe to gank.

You can gank losing lanes, it just becomes more complicated depending on how far behind they are and how well the rest of the team is performing. What you cannot do is let your laner get shoved into inhib and dove repeatedly. I don’t care what they did in lane, if you are allowing that to happen as a jungler you have some partial responsibility in that. There’s a certain point where you do have to stop bleeding, and if you allow the patient to die because you went to put a bandaid on a booboo on one part of the body when an artery was opened up on another, then that is poor management on your part. Junglers are like crisis managers, so you have to make your decisions wisely. If you allow someone to snowball, it will eventually be a problem you have to deal with so it is ideal to nip it in the bud when you can. But again, it just depends! You might have another laner on your team snowballing just as hard. So then your focus might be to enable that laner further.

So, again, it just depends.

Meteora707Jul 12, 20191 votes

no there isn't truth to it, it was a statement for bad players like 4 years ago, the entire point of it was "you don't know if you can 2v1 and you have 0 map awareness on the enemy jungler", nowadays you should have both of these things covered so yes you can gank for losing lanes.

chipndip1Jul 12, 20191 votes

Depends on context.

You have no idea whether this is a potential player that can carry the whole game, but is struggling out the gate, or someone that's gonna do nothing with your presence even if you straight camp them.

Safest bet is to at least try to successfully gank every lane at least once. You might not always be able to, but don't get in the habit of hyper-focusing on one lane or letting one potentially amazing lane go to shit because you happened to forget they exist.

The most important aspect of the early game is shaping the mid game. It's easier to start off the mid game on top when you have more winning lanes. When you forsake a lane, you're automatically giving the enemy 1 out of 3 lanes, which means you have to have your other 2 lanes win even harder to make up for the one lane you potentially left to the wolves. Sometimes this is required to win. Sometimes this is a death sentence to your chances to win. It depends on context.

Sire HippingtonJul 13, 20191 votes

well, never is a bit exteme, but it's generally better to play around strong lanes, as it more likely ends in succes as you get kills more easily and are more likely to win 2v2 should a countergank happen. This doesn't mean you shouldn't gank a loosing lane if it's overpushed and an easy kill or if your nearby anyway, but given the choice, it usually works better if you play towards your strong lanes. There are also some matchups where one side initially looses, but with a lead it can easily turn around so even if it's a weak lane initially, getting it ahead can have a huge payoff, while other matchups will losse the 1v1 even after succesfull ganks so getting them ahead doesn't do much.

LetsGetHIvernJul 13, 20191 votes

Depends on the champs in lane. Just today I had a vayne nami bot lane vs enemy kallista thresh. Kallista got two kills early and vayne typed gg this lane is over. I ganked twice in a row gave her two doubles and she carried. Honestly If the lane isnt someone that spikes with help then nah its not worth it.

Dotty LBJul 13, 20191 votes

I think a lot of people take it literally in situations they shouldnt and that has a lot to do with people definition of the word fed. Rather a lane is gankable really comes down to "do you think you could get a kill there or die" Lanes to avoid is if they are fed and the laner is behind enough to were they cannot even put any damage on them(this is especially true for top lane but almost never the case for mid and bot).

The thigh guyJul 13, 20191 votes

Never gank a losing lane that has no gank assist. Also assess the enemy champion pick.

If they are losing to an illaoi, never, and I repeat NEVER GANK THAT FUCKING LANE. you will lose. It’s not a question. You WILL lose.

FCJAAAAGOOOOJul 13, 20191 votes

Never gank a lost lane.

VelasanJul 13, 20191 votes

It's not "never" ever. More like you need to be aware of champions power spikes. So, if your top laner is losing, but the enemy is Darius or Illaoi at level 5 you need to be thinking, "okay what if they level up mid combat or the jungler shows up." That kind of thing.

Also, generally do want to help a lane that is being camped by counter ganking it right when the enemy jungler goes in.

However, something a lot of people don't understand is that most of the time the correct answer is not to help a lane that is losing. Particularly if that lane is losing the 1v1 rather than being ganked. If the enemy jungler does show up to counter gank you instead they have a better 2v2. On top of that if you are helping a lane already ahead to cement a lead you help to take that tower earlier and get that ally farther ahead rather than just stabilizing the bad lane.

As always it depends on the context, but there is a merit to it.

Exin0Jul 13, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It's not "never" ever. More like you need to be aware of champions power spikes. So, if your top laner is losing, but the enemy is Darius or Illaoi at level 5 you need to be thinking, "okay what if they level up mid combat or the jungler shows up." That kind of thing.

Also, generally do want to help a lane that is being camped by counter ganking it right when the enemy jungler goes in.

However, something a lot of people don't understand is that most of the time the correct answer is not to help a lane that is losing. Particularly if that lane is losing the 1v1 rather than being ganked. If the enemy jungler does show up to counter gank you instead they have a better 2v2. On top of that if you are helping a lane already ahead to cement a lead you help to take that tower earlier and get that ally farther ahead rather than just stabilizing the bad lane.

As always it depends on the context, but there is a merit to it.

I think this oversimplification and somewhat ego talking from junglers overestimating their impact. Yes breaking stale lane to give needed nudge to start rolling is good but winning lane dont usualy need jung pressure anymore just fending enemy jungler off. Meanwhile colapsed lane ignored for 10 minutes can cost you game and you cant be suprised that enemy nasus with 800 stacks in 15 minutes is dismantling your inhibitor

aezensJul 13, 20191 votes

There are countless factors you have to keep in mind. Depending on what you consider "loosing" people might have a bad start and will perform better after a while. Ultimatively poeple are very inconsitent and it depends on your luck whether it turns out to be the right decision.

BarkleyJul 13, 20191 votes

**Losing **Alternatively **Inconsistent

I got a good chuckle out of "Ultimatively".

AckelopeJul 13, 20191 votes

reasonably certain they meant "ultimately", not "alternatively"...

Daddy AntsJul 13, 20191 votes

Yes and No.

If the lane is losing but can be recovered by a little pressure then sure.

If the lane is 0/4, 30+ cs behind and the enemy has a level and item advantage then no.

As a jungler you need to decide which losing lanes can be salvaged and which are a lost cause.

Let's say you're playing LeeSin and your solo lanes are as follows

Ahri - 0/4/0 - item 3802 item 1001 vs Fizz - 4/0/0 - item 3152 item 3020

This is what I'd call a "lost cause".

Fizz at that point is so fed and snowballed that can he easily 1 shot you and Ahri.

On the flip side...

Renekton - 0/1/0 - item 3111 item 3044 vs Teemo - 1/0/0 - item 3151

This lane can be salvaged. Teemo is heavily immobile and Renekton provides a lot of crowd control and burst damage.

Flawless FetusJul 13, 20191 votes

Losing lanes need ganks. The real issue is if someone is getting absolutely shit stomped. If your top laner is 0/4 against renekton or Darius and you're not huge, you have 0 business going up there. Lol. Likewise, if your ez and yuumi went 0/5 against Draven and Lux, you have no business going there. If your mid is 0/2 and down 10 cs, that's a reasonable gank. Losing lanes need help, but eventually a lane get beyond the point of help - unless your jungler is huge.

LordGeovanniJul 13, 20191 votes

the truth is its a good idea in general because its likely that the person losing the lane isnt able to bait for your gank and the person ganking the lane isnt likely to time it right and use their spells properly so the lose despite being 2v1 and end up not liking each other for it. This is a non factor if the jungler is good and patient and the laner has learned how to bait in the enemy from what has killed him several times and just lands a shut down in the hands of the jungler to let him snow ball other lanes or the laner to let him pull out of the hole they are in

Bishasaurus FlexJul 13, 20191 votes

If I'm behind in lane I'll actually ask the jungler to not gank me. I had a game where my yi ept ganking for me and I would ping him to back off and he kept dying.

If I'm behind and my enemy laner stays mid, it means he's not utilizing his lead properly. It's a win win. I usually play mid Syndra so unless my jungler is a Pantheon or Jax I'd rather them help other lanes.

Feel ApathyJul 13, 20191 votes

It's only worth if they can contribute to the gank and you're strong enough to not be killed/countered.

It has to be 100% succesful too, which is not easy unless you're ahead, otherwise you've just wasted time and could lose a dragon/herald, because of it.

King LividJul 13, 20191 votes

As I understand it, there are five types of lanes: Won Winning Even Losing Lost

I think it's "never gank a LOST lane". You can gank losing lanes, because losing lanes can become winning lanes.

A lane that is lost can't become a winning lane unless the enemy fucks up hard.

Ganking for a 0/1 Renekton vs a Riven is ganking a losing lane, but this lane has potential to become a winning lane.

Ganking for a 0/4 Yasuo vs a Darius is likely not going to improve the lane.

Basically, it depends on the matchup and whether the lane is still winnable.

DarkwaveXaldinJul 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

And if there is, what is a jungler supposed to do when every lane is losing the 1v1 / 2v2 ? Power farm and invade, and hope the enemy is nice enough to not take the inhibitor at 14 minutes?

If your teammate sucks you only gank if you can get the kill shutdown! If your teammate gets the kill he will just get a gold reset and continueing feeding most likely. But if you die you just give your Enemy more gold to beat you all.

SmogOct 10, 20191 votes

"Never gank a losing lane" is a snarky remark people give to laners who both feed and flame.

The REAL rule of thumb your jungler is probably following is: "winning lane -> slightly higher gank priority" and this has plenty of merit.

The main reason is objective pressure. Ganking a lane that is ahead means you will be more likely to have pressure to potentially take the tower/invade/dragon afterwards. You soak pressure from the whole map, secure an objective and snowball your team. Sure a laner that is behind might need your help, but often (despite to 5000 assist pings they've given) it might not the best option available. It is OKAY for a jungler to choose to allow one laner to lose 2 waves of cs because they are being bullied in favour of bot kill + first tower.