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The adc changes so far

Sire Hippington·5/4/2018, 12:29:32 PM·13 votes·7,900 views

All in all, i think the adc changes miss the mark, especially when it comes to makeing adc less mandatory. There are some promissing changes though, but also quite some stupid ideas.

Zeal items cost increase: a long needed and good change

  • Lifesteal item cost reduce: not the worst thing, both items were rather out pf flavor, but i'm not sure if it's needed. The main reason no one gets those items is that adc are to save already and just don't need it most of the time. And with zeal stacking beeing a bit less powerfll with new IE, we might see more lifesteal instead anyway.
  • IE changes: I like the direction of it, aiming more at sustained impact than lucky high damage crits, but i really would prefer either a stacking up AS buff on crit or %armor pen stacking up on a target, promoting focused fire which allow counterplay by forceing them to switch target and it would add less to their high damage vs squishy targets.
  • ER changes: i like them, finally no longer bound to crit so you can go for actuall ad-caster builts, and the ult effec is quite intteresting, though it might need some work as some champs might break it.
  • Stromrazor: This item will be a mistake. One of the stated goals was to reduce upfront burst from adc. Giveing a save crit on the first hit is NOT how you do that. If combined with SS, the opening burst gets pretty datrn ugly, and so does the chip damage, Caitlin throwing a crit out every 2.5 sec with just 1 item is no joke. On top of that, why thw 8%ms??? Adc already get lot's of ms from zeal, they are already to save(in high elos where protection from the team actually happens a bit and they have proper kiteing mechanics), why make them all outrun udyr as baseline speed? PD+SR will be a 20% ms boost as long as you are in combat... On top of that there are the potential abuse cases on some melees like Rengar...again, that item is just no a good idea.
  • Hail of Blades: another horrible idea. 'we want adc to be less bursty, so we allow them to get off their first 3 AAs near instantly' it's just so backwards it hurts. If you add Stormrazor+SS to it, you open with a save SS-crit and follow imidiatly with som high speed AAs. Vayne with that shit is damn scary, and kai'sa is just even more stupid than she already was. On top of it, it again breaks some melees by removeing counterplay from their kit. Morde's Q will go off darn quickly with that estra 100% as, and XIn will get his knockup almost imidiatly, jax will get a full extra ult proc duering his stun duration while instat stacking rageblade, it just adds so much more upfront burst to the game, as if we didin't have enough of that already.

So all in all, the changes really miss the mark. Yes, the crit powerspike gets delayed which is great, and there is atleast some shift to sustained damage form burst, but at the same time some potentially game breaking burst mechanics get added, the overall huge damage, reliabillity and savety of markmen hardly gets touched at all so there is no progress what so ever in makeing them less mandatory. And on top of all, riot once again misses a perfect opportunity to finally get rid of the horrible crit RNG...

25 Comments

Pika Fox5/4/2018, 5:15:05 PM4 votes

Your complaints dont really line up. The idea wasnt to make adxs less bursty, it was to make crit scalong late game damage take longer to make work while still allowing an early game burst build because some ADCs require it to work (draven lucian etc). Basically, you now have late game scalers taking longer to come up and the early game ADCs will now be relevent.

makkii5/4/2018, 5:45:55 PM2 votes

The thing about the ie changes is that yes ie is useless on its own, but because it generates more Crit now, as soon as you get a zeal/zeal item that passive comes into play, realistically no one was complaining about an adc powerspiking off one item, they were complaining about the adc’s 3 item powerspike. Which has increased by only 500 gold. Even in the early game this is only a difference of 4 minion waves of cs, and that’s not including ambient and global kill gold. Which means the 3 item spike has seen a delay of all of a minute and a half maybe 2 minutes.

They have also gained something from this, when you account for the 100% Crit chance as opposed to 80, their damage with normal build is only slightly less or at some point the same vs squishies while their damage against high armor targets has actually increased dramatically.

while certainly the conversion to true damage was certainly a smart way to differentiate effectiveness vs tanks and squishies. riot didn’t pair this with a general damage nerf to adc’s.

ADC’s didn’t have a problem shredding tanky champs before, the problem was that they were shredding squishies too hard.

The end result SHOULD have been that adc’s did less damage to squishies and similar damage to tankies, what we ended up getting is similar damage to squishies, and more damage to tankless, just delayed by less than a couple minutes.

Tbh if it were me I’d have all the changes riot has made, but I would have done four more things.

1 I would have nerfed bf sword damage by 10, and ie’s By 20 as a result

2 I would nerf the attack speed of all the completed zeal items by 10%

3 I would take bf sword out of GA and add null magic mantel, and make it a general use item like it was in the first few seasons

4 I would keep the last whisper item line as bonus armor pen but buff the bonus armor pen by 15 at no extra cost to compensate slightly for the loss of GA as an offensive boost.

The result would be that full build adc’s with GA would do 120 less damage per Crit pre mitigation, and would have 20% less attack speed, but they would have 15% more bonus armor pen for tanks and be slightly more defensible vs mages.

End result after mitigation would be about 150-170 dps less to squishies, and something like 50-80 less on tanks though I’m not sure since I didn’t do the math on that part.

And this would also open up adc’s to maybe opt away from GA in favor of items like maw DD or BT more often.

ModWulf Helhammer5/4/2018, 2:31:30 PM2 votes

Hail of Blades isn’t an ADC keystone, it’s for assassins. Maybe Quinn will use it, but she’s always been more of an assassin.

Kaioko5/4/2018, 8:02:08 PM1 votes

What bugs me and what people seem to fail to realize when it comes to the lifesteal item changes as well as well as the hail of blades/stormrazor introduction is that they keep quoting "blah blah this doesn't fix ADC burst." This simply isn't the goal of those changes. The goal is allow Marksman to have various build paths that are viable and peak at different points of the game.

Now perhaps those items are the wrong way to go about it and maybe they need their numbers tweaked, but that kind of stuff is easy to do.

Vid the Strange5/4/2018, 11:30:35 PM1 votes

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Mildly Spiced5/4/2018, 12:36:38 PM1 votes

Then again with with Last Whisper changes assassins will get decent boost aswell

LordGeovanni5/5/2018, 11:11:48 PM1 votes

are we gonna address that they increased Ad ?????

Mcsquzzy5/4/2018, 1:10:02 PM1 votes

Mord q, got my attention

jocomotion5/4/2018, 7:57:00 PM1 votes

I like the optimism you’ve got, also I got a little chuckle on the first sentence of Stormrazor*[sg-miss-fortune]*