Shen's Rework is really dissapointing

Sire Hippington··13 votes·1,347 views

This is a copy paste of my PBE post

First of all, i wonder why there is no official feedback thread for his rework

So about the rework it's self, first looking at the things he lost:

  • a bunch of base stats. He now has nearly 200hp, 22armor and 4ad less at 18

  • Ki Strike. I really loved that passive. The sound, animation and damage where just so statisfying, and the AS-scaleing opened up interesting builtpaths. It actually was one of the main reason for me to play shen.

  • Vorapal Blade. I honestly won't miss the point n click poke, it made laneing vs him rather obnoxious on many champs and wasn't exactly interesting. However, the Q did way more than just providing easy poke. It provided a unique sustain mechanic that also affected allies and helpt coordinateing teamfights by marking a focus target. I really hope they will either return the 'healing mark' to shen or use that mechanic on a new champ. Aditionally, his Q gave a fallback patern for when the lane wnt bad, allowing to farm from a rather save range. Now he has no fallback pattern, so if he is played top, he will either dominate his lane or loose rather hard, as all he has is the all-in trade. Also, haveing some form of ranged damage certainly would be nice, it just was the combination of energie based and point n click that made it opressive as a poke tool in many matchups.

  • Feint . While he got some general damage mitigation on his passive now, he can't really use it that reactive to counter poke as his old W, it's more a ' i win this trade' shield now.

And what does he gain in return?

  • More hp/5. Probably to compensate the lost Q sustain, but not nearly enough to make up for that loss in any way.

  • Ki Barrier. Nothing wrong with that, but not nearly as statisfying to use as his Ki Strike.

  • The~~ floating phallus~~ spirit blade. This is a horrible thing, not only does it look rather ugly(imo it's more the kind of sword that Garen would use if he wanted a 1-hander than one that a ninja would use), it feels like a horrible bandaid to introduce some counterplay to his new Q and ad a new 'unique' mechanic. Imo it doesn't fit to shen at all, and it is poorly worked out. Such a mechanic needs an kit being built around it, rather than getting slapped on a finished built last minute. He can only manipulate it with one skill, and that doesn't even allow free positioning but only calls it to your poss, and he only has two spells that itterract with it in any way. If we look at the two most similar mechanics, orianna's ball and syndra's spheres, we notice that theire entire kit, every single active abillity, does interact with the ball/sphere, which leads to the kit feeling great and complete, while shen's feels incomplete.

  • Twilight Assault. Basicall not a bad skill, it adds some nice damage that scales into late on a tank and offers some counterplay, though the duration is to high and the fact that the cd starts upon activation rather than after the last hit removes alot potential counterplay, as disengageing and waiting for the buff to run out is not an option that way. It also feels like it needs an AA-reset. However, the interaction with the spirite blade feels forced and tacked on rather than truely interesting.

  • Spirit's Refuge. The idea is somewhat interesting, but it felt bad to use most of the time. In lane, it is a way worse jax E, and in teamfights it is hard to utilize, as it appears around the spirit blade, and your means to move that blade are VERY limited. It also has a really low aoe and a short duration. It forces people to stay in a small area if they want to benefit from it while running away often would be the better option for dquishys, and dive champs would need to continue the chase of their backline and can't affort to stay in that aoe either. And of multiple people try to use it, you become really vulnerable to aoe... it seems to have more drawbacks than benefits in teamfights, unless the oppseing team is very, VERY AA-focused.

What does stay the same?

  • Shadow Dash This is probably his signature skill and what most people associate shen with besides the ult. It certainly was mandatory that this skill stays. Adding the %health scaleing from Ki-strike onto it isn't a bad call i guess. How ever, i wonder why the damage was changed to physical damage, that doesn't make any sense to me.

  • Stand United This is one of my biggest issues with the rework. I think his ult was one of the main problems for old she's balance. It just cunsumes so much of his powerbudget and by the virtue of beeing a no-combat ult it also means his base kit and thus the pre-6 has to be more very powerfull. this results in him beeing a very dominant laner that looses fight impact as the game goes on. I really hoped they would nerf the ult in some way and add some passive combat power to it to smooth out his powercurve and ad a bit more power to his base kit.

What would i change?

  • Return Ki-Strike as his passive, maybe tune some numbers but leave it mostly as it is. °I really love that passive

  • remove the ~~ floating phallus~~ spirit blade. It might be an idea for a new champ, or even better on a Irelia rework, but i don't see it working on shen.

  • Change the Q name to Vorpal Blade, make it a line skillshot with not to much damage(but maybe bonus damage to minions) and a big damage fall-off per target, let it stop briefly in the air at the end, turning into a spirite blade and returning to shen, applying all the Twighlight Assault effects(slow if fleeing, bonus damage on next 3 AAs, more bonus damage and AS if a champion was hit, no damage on the returning balde it self), just with an AA-reset. °This adds the desired counterplay to his Q without the stupid spirite blade while adding a way to pick up cs from afar without really granting waveclear or strong poke

  • Increase the W area a bit and center it on shen, activateing either if an ally or his spirteblade(the returning Q) enter the zone, or after 2sec. Add a heal over 5sec scaleing with his maxhealth, haveing a low base value/scaleing but increaseing greatly based on the number of Attacks dodged from champions/monsters so it isn't as effective as sustain in lane but can get nice in teamfights while helping his jungle. °This should make it a bit more useable ingenerall without needing a spiriteblade, adding more reward for good useage in teamfights.

  • Take the maxhealth scaleing from his E , change it to magical damage and ad an ap-scaleinng. °He already has health-scaleing on Ki-Strike, doubling down on that wouldn't be balanced

  • Change the Ult shield to 150/ 275/400 but reaply it after the channle is finished, stacking with the first shield, increase the cd to 240/180/120, increase the channle time to 4/3.5/3 sec and reduce it by up to 50% based on distance, starting at 2500range, reaching the full 50% at 1000 range maybe add a shield on she himself that if destroyed deals damage to him and stuns for 0.1 sec so no-cc champs have a way to cancle it aswell °The numbers obviously need to get itterated upon, but i hope it gives an idea on how to nerf the ult, freeing up the power for the passive part, puting more focuse on cancleing his ult while makeing it more usefull for him if he already is in a fight

21 Comments

Cowgirl Ed4 votes

The "ki blade" is really awkward, doesn't fit Shen at all. I love to play Shen, I was waiting for the rework and now I'm kinda like "meh, whatev". Let's hope he's still fun to play.

Cenobite Azaziel3 votes

Riot deals with feedback! They will hear us!

Mordekaiser

Sire Hippington2 votes

Karma i know,Cassiopeia they always do

Proto Saber3 votes

Riot should honestly sit down and talk to people who main Shen and ask for feedback from them because honestly a lot of people who don't main him don't know squat about his potential, I am a veteran Shen player but I reached the stars with him in ranked solo Q peaking Diamond 1 and playing Shen only on a smurf till Diamond V and I have been playing him since he was first released

They even had the taunt nerfed "Taunted opponents deal half damage to Shen with their basic attacks." vs New Taunt "Shen dashes in the target direction, dealing physical damage to all enemy champions he hits, Taunt icon taunting them for 1.5.

Like everything is just nerfed on his kit, how the hell is shen going to taunt the fed ADC without knowing hes just gonna melt Honestly, Riot?

The only rework that needed to change is his W and everything else is fine

Meep Man2 votes

The rework is actually pretty good, just is currently poorly balanced in my opinion. My experience with it makes Shen pretty weak overall and a little clunky. Changes to his cool downs and base stats would be good.

Selman II2 votes

TBH anything is better than the point and click tank boringness that was pre-rework Shen. New Shen looks so cool with his badass sword anyway

AnonymousPoro1 votes

[deleted]

Earl Eulrich7 votes

they never change anything though once stuff hits the PBE, they ignore actual feedback anyway and end up with a very unsatisfying rework that gets hyped up for a week and then all the old mains will have to abandon ship in frustration. This thing on the PBE is certainly not an upgrade to Shen in any ways, it just adds more problems without fixing anything. (and the spirit sword just is so goddamn unfit).

Dreadlocks3 votes

Basically, all the shen mains hate it, and anyone who hated playing vs shen top loves it... sadly there are more of part 2 of my statement so rito will think it was good and keep it. Fucking livid man...

Earl Eulrich4 votes

just like they made Karma disappear back in the days *sigh*...

Edit: also the main problem is Riots why of operation: they come out with this shock/surprise-reveal, and then everyone that never has played Shen will take an uneducated look on it and as it looks flashy like it always does hype gets created and drowns the little informed feedback there is. So Riot thinks everything is fine and nothing changes during the minor PBE-phase...the champ gets released and then he sees play for a little time cause he´s all new - until he vanishes again because the players that only played him cause he was new/hyped/imbalanced on release abandon him and the old mains abandon him aswell. Riot really needs to start communicating and offering channels for feedback a lot earlier in their production or we´ll continue to see a lot more of morde/cassio/karma massacres and a let less Sions (although that one also mostly disappeared after the last nerfs).

Dreadlocks3 votes

They'really killing shen for me if he doesn't get a huge tweek. And rengar is on the hotlist for a desired rework or gutting, so that would make 2/4 favorite champions gone. I'd be left with lee sin who I don't play as much anymore, and olaf, another champion they want to rework soon. Never thought It would come down to this..

Earl Eulrich2 votes

mh, with that pool you could maybe try Ekko - i think he´d fit right in.

but yea i feel you...they killed my Karma, then they killed my MF (from duelist/hybrid to ult-bot) and now they kill Shen + Zyra is also already on their list.

Dreadlocks1 votes

I've never been a victim to these reworks and updates, holy shit i hate them now. The only one i could see being satisfied was the Ashe rework but even then who knows.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

i liked the first version of the Ashe-rework (not really an upgrade to before, but also not a downgrade), but now that her slow depends on RNG it´s really just bad.

Dreadlocks1 votes

How does it depend on RNG?

Earl Eulrich1 votes

the slow now can crit...it´s basically the old-phage problem all over again. So at lvl 18 you currently apply a 25%slow with your passive every time you hit, but depending on your crit-chance you can also apply a 50%slow randomly. compared to before the base of the slow went down, while crit obviously went up - so now you have to pray to RNGesus to help yuo kiting or chasing down - and that on the one Marksmen that finally did´t relay on that special god for dealing dmg.

just a real sad affair.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Yeah see, i never played ashe enough to really know if it was good or bad, just playing vs her it looked way better. But apparently its not all great..

Sire Hippington4 votes

The poppy posts mostly were about the 180° change on her playstyle, going from diving fighter to peeling tank aswell as the change to her character, and a few about missing the old Q feel with the big burst and alot power in the sound, but non complained about her kit not working or haveing bad/ankward/ mechanics. And those concerns did hold true. Non of my opinions about poppys rework has changed since it came life.

I certainly don't need another month to verify that this floating spirite blade does not match my champion fantasy of shen at all.

Meep Man1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x5OFnXsQ,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-01-14T17:15:49.384+0000)

The poppy post mostly were about the 180° change on her playstyle, going from diving fighter to peeling tank aswell as the change to her character, and a few about missing the old Q feel with the big burst and alot power in the sound, but non complained about her kit not working or haveing bad/ankward/ mechanics. And those concerns did hold true. Non of my opinions about poppys rework has changed since it came life.

I certainly don't need another month to verify that this floating spirite blade does not match my champion fantasy of shen at all.

What is your fantasy of Shen?

Sire Hippington2 votes

He's the Eye of Twilight, a silent watcher in the shadows who steps into the light to restor balance. He has one obligation: preserving balance, and he will do so by any means, wether that means killing or protecting someone, or even pulling an entire army towards a certain spot doesn't matter for him, he will do ehat has to be done to forfill his deeds.

Beeing the ninja he is, he certainly has lot's of physicall prowess, which he enchances with his Ki. Aditionally, he knows about hidden arts that allow him to be at the right spot at the right time. For me, his combat style is all about 'physicall attacks', like hitting some one with his blades, blocking/dodgeing damage dashing around, throwing his sword - just that this 'physical' actions get bolstered by his Ki for aditionall effect.

Jorencice1 votes

Well riot dissagrees. They want him to have a giant magic sword.

And it isn't like ninjas and magic aren't a thing.

Kennel can literally make lightning storms.

And zed can control shadows.

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