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Looking at the current changes for Preseason on PBE...

Sire Hippington·11/7/2018, 2:13:48 PM·24 votes·9,111 views

... and what the fuck are those champion/item changes?

  • Gallio not doing well and getting a nerf?(manacost buff is nice, but loosing 60%ap on the Q is massive) And not only that, but changeing some flat damage into % damage, cause tanks really need more anti tank tools...after all that's their job right? Killing other tanks? Edit: Last PBE patch he received a small ratio buff on the initial damage and the %hp damage, might actually be enough to turn it into a decent buff overall.

  • Lissandra getting butchered for a gimick She looses a bunch of damage on W and R and alot lane presence from the removed free spell every now and then with poor manacost compensation and that all to get some stupid 'thrall' mechanic that only takes effect on takeing down a champion. This greatly lowers lissandras personal power just so he gets more power in teamfights that comes from just beeing there and doing nothing. There is no gameplay at all, all lisandry has to do is existing close to a fight and if you're team manages to get a kill, shit will snowball from there thx to massive basedamage frost zombies, whilt the things lissandra can do actively get less powerfull. Wouldn't be supprised to se her as a support after that, rush zhonyas, get some lockdown from E+W and then hope self ult+zhonyas buy enough time for you're team to kill shit so your passive does the rest This does not feel good on lissandra, and it does not feel good playing against her...

  • Orn getting turned into a support

  • Loosing the shield on his W is massive, it takes so much from his tradeing abillity in lane, and even more from his survivabillity in long teamfights and his potential to go for plays on the back end of a fight. This paired with the lost sustain from his passive will leave him helpless in many toplane matchups, how on earth does killing his easy to acces laneing power help him in soloQ compared to proplay? The main issue for his stromg lane is how absurd his lvl 6 all-in is because it can give 3 brittle procs, paired with him getting an itemadvantage from his passive. And you just buff that brittle damage, cause a tank surely needs to obliterate +70% of an ulting renektons healthbar with his combo...

  • His ult gets heavy nerfs, not that it didn't deserve some, but hitting both the pick potential and the teamfight is a bit much. I think landing his ult on multiple targets in a teamfight should be the ideal case and atm it's very statisfying, cutting the cc on targets beyond the first seems a bit harsh and hitting the wrong spot. The slow changes already make the knockup much less reliable anyway.

  • The changes to his passive is wiered, he gets a random lvl 11 spike where he starts getting tons of free stats, he gets restriced heavily in his item choices as you'd want to get as much upgradebal items as possible, and he gives free stats to allies past that. I don't see how this will help soloQ orn at all, he's more dpendend than ever on his allies putting the extra stats to good use, and i honestly see him beeing played as support as he won't hold his own in a sololane all that well while his main strength are the bossted items past lvl 11 and still the engage ult, which both work as support just as well.

The big issue with orn isn't his shield, nor the ult kockup, it's how much damn damage he does for beeing a CC heavy tank, especially vs bruisers as it's nearly all %hp. If you want to adress how strong he can be, nerf his damage. lower the W minimum damage, lowers earlygame trade value andwaveclear. Restrict the passive early on more so he doesn't get an easy item advantage over his opponent. Change the brittle to a much lower %hp value and add some flat damage to it, so getting health actually means something agianst orn and his tripple brittle proc on the all-in is less devastateing. The nerf on longranged ults still is fine btw, a save engage on that distance is what breaks him for pro. And if you want to help solo-Q orn, give him some agressive scaleings. All other tanks can get solid value from getting one or two off items, but Orn has no damn (relevant)scaleings at all. Also, mabye adress grasp as it's a very dominant rune for the laneingphase...

  • Sejuani also got some changes, loosing alot utillity, gaining tons of damage, just what you expect from riot then it comes to dealing with damage creep... Atleast it's thematically fitting for her to pack a punch, but at this point they should just revert her...

  • Thalya dominates the jubngle, how about buffing her some more? Seriously? WTF is wrong with you guys. I get the worked ground and mana buffs, hardly affects her jungle but helps midlane, but 4sec less CD on lvl 1? That's a massiie boost for clearspeed and early ganks.... Edit: subsequent Q damage vs Monsters got nerfed aswell, so overall not a buff for jungle thalia

  • Guinsoo's loosing some on-hit damage, which is kinda fine as it lowers it's power as first item, but getting %hybrid pen? the point of mixed damage is that you're opponents already have issues itemizeing against it, so you pay by not getting pen for it. Also, what's up with throwing anti tank shit on all the big dps multiplyers, firsttruedamage for IE, noe %hybrid-pen for guinsoo's, next you merge rabadons and voidstaff... Tankiness in the lategame already feels shit, and damage creep is one of the issues you promissed to adress this preseason, yet all i see is giveing all and every thing more anti tank damage while nerfing tankiness... Also Gionsoo's needs a bigger rework, it's not an healthy item. You should reconsider if phantom hit, atleast in it's current tuening, is a good mechinc to have in the game, and even if it is, it atleast should not be on the big HYBRID item. Guinsoo's trys to fill to many niches at once, beeing the strong hybrid statstick that stacks up with high AS, while also beeign the big multiplyer for hybrid builts while also beeing the supreme on-hit item. You need to split that up and give it a more defined niche, preferable as big hybrid item as that has been it's niche all the way till V6.9

  • Shieldbash Another direct fuckup on adressing damage-creep. We do not need aditional damage on tank form resolve, we want MORE TANKINESS FROM RESOLVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What probaly is going on at Riot R1: 'tanks don't get played' R2: 'yea, they just don't kill stuff wuick enough, that's not fun' R1: 'guess you're right, so what do we do about it' R3: 'don't worry guys, new rune will give damage for shields, and we increased the %hp damage on some tanks for good measure aswell'

  • Why the fucking Hell do you nerf the warding trinket? The map is allready as pitch black and junglers can gank as they please as you have next to no way of getting enough vision to prevent that. we need MORE vission, not less. MORE!!!

  • to round it all up, we also have a nerf to sustain for APs, cutting the ratio on fleetfoodwork nearly in halve for no reason at all, we have a heavy nerf to overgrwoth on anyone but squishys, and the new shrd system has tankstats very undertuned, with less than half the gold value than their agressive counterparts...

So far, the preseason of which i hoped it would get me back into the game looks like it might cause me to finally desinstall it for good after nearly 10years...

38 Comments

kneel on Ice11/7/2018, 4:01:26 PM9 votes

Those lissandra nerfs are proof that the community was right when they said every champion who gets picked much in pro play will be nerfed :

Lissandra win rate in worlds was below 40% Her picks are essentially situational because she counters akali irelia She does not do well in solo q as much as in a team composition that carries her

Even more , some would say that the damage nerfs were to compensate the damage her passive adds of course they are , except lissandra didn't need something which makes her strong in team fights , she already had Self R and zhonya for that (+aftershock with words) , so instead of adding something to her ability of survival in 1V1 fights , they add some thralls so she can just go in the middle get 10 seconds of unvulnariblity + aftershock + doing damage with the passive and ult ground

i think she needs less power in team fights and more of solo fights , therefore not in her passive/w or r , but in her Q / E and since E is teleport tool , buffing it would be messy so that leaves us with Q

I say "Q does more damage if the ennemy was previously hit by an AA/Ability" , something like lux passive would be nice for 1v1

or just make her like galio and add more armor/mr to her ratio if dont want her to do damage

but this state , she's just going back , im not saying she's becoming weak at all , but she's going back to her previous state , low-average champion (but this time with a new passive)

Step Sis Lux11/7/2018, 3:12:29 PM8 votes

I dont really see Lissandra killing anyone solo now if she is 0/0 or something on lane. I think she will move to support tbh

Iota Theta11/7/2018, 4:13:13 PM4 votes

I don’t even know how to process those Ornn changes anymore, beyond that I absolutely despise them. What happened to our low damage and unreliable tank that had awesome CC and utility? Why have they pushed him more and more into damage and less into tankiness? Now they’ve taken away his only actual defensive ability, making him rely on hitting level 11 to get those extra stats from his upgradable items, which’ll likely force him into building Abyssal, Sunfire, and Locket...

yay more passive tankiness and less skill in defense..../s

Ereldra11/7/2018, 5:15:50 PM4 votes

Just one thing about Taliyah: Her Q states now "subesquent hits deal 50% damage against ENEMIES" instead of "champions", which means her Q will do less damage against Jungle Monsters.

So the buffs will help her midlane performance but not her Jungle-Performance (might even be a net nerf even with the decreased cooldown since she deals alot less damage to Jungle Monsters now, decreasing her clear speed and making her more vulnerable against counterjungling/invading.)

Besteal11/7/2018, 4:49:31 PM3 votes

How about Riot just resets Ornn to release state, when he had %current HP on W instead of %Max HP and he gets to have all his mechanics back. At this point I don't care If I can't kill shit with W I just want Ornn to stop getting gutted with every change just because his W does damage and his R is safe. I'm pretty sure I should just be going full bruiser on Ornn anyway with all these tank Ornn nerfs going through.

Jennifer42011/7/2018, 2:46:31 PM3 votes

tl:dr everyone saying "preseason 9 will be riots make or break if they dont start to listen for once the game will get fucked" was correct. rip rito

Power Cosmic11/7/2018, 5:07:23 PM2 votes

Sad Liss had to lose so much for the new passive. That being the case, it isn't worth it. Liss isn't uniformly safe and good like other mages.

Fízz v211/7/2018, 2:41:17 PM2 votes

Its fine if they gut lissandra to me. A champ can have long range spammy wave clear like Ziggs and Xerath, if they are easy to all in when they step up too far. Liss has an ult and cc to counter that and now Aftershock too.

Havent really looked into galio and ornn, so not sure.

Fleet footwork shouldnt really matter to any champ except Kassadin who needs the nerf anyway. And hybrid adcs that take it I guess.

ZT Xperimentor11/7/2018, 3:42:36 PM2 votes

Oh don't forget that turret health is getting segmented with less resistances; and paying out gold for each one broken, adding up to more than what they're worth now.

Eleshakai11/7/2018, 3:45:50 PM2 votes

Everyone I've heard who has actually tried the Lissandra changes has liked them... everyone who has simply read the PBE notes hasn't. Interesting dichotomy.

Profirix11/7/2018, 4:01:14 PM2 votes

You forgot about the Overgrowth nerf. Far worse scaling, potentially better for squishies (I haven't done the math). In case you were wondering:

0.2% max HP per 8 minions that die near you >>> 3 hp per 8 minions that die near you until you reach 120 minions at which point you get 2.5% max HP in addition.

Probably a better pickup on squishies as it gives base health scaling now, but a MUCH worse pickup on health-scaling tanks as the max HP is capped. For reference, at 120 minions, you used to get 3% max HP from Overgrowth. Now you get 2.5% max HP + 45 HP.

Chogath item 3070

DragonShea11/7/2018, 4:32:42 PM2 votes

Orn's W shouldn't deal Max HP damage, his Passive already does that. Bake that % HP damage into his other abilities.

chipndip111/7/2018, 4:58:15 PM2 votes

ITT:

  • People don't learn from what happened with Aatrox and are surprised that it's happening to Lissandra.
  • People forget the part where Riot said they want Ornn to be on the squishier side for tanks in exchange for cc/damage.
  • People forget that they made a huge scene over his unstoppable so Riot found a means to put it back in the kit.
  • People forget that these changes are to make Ornn better in solo queue, where people just want to kill the lane opponent, and worse for pro play, where shit like shields and strong cc are way better on a tank.
  • People don't realize that the pen stats on Rageblade are there because its magic damage on-hit is now 15 flat. This now forces Rageblade to rely on synergizing with the player's itemization rather than being a comfy 1st item, which was the point of the item in the first place.
  • People play up Shield Bash when it's really not that big a deal.
  • I agree with the complaints on the relatively random warding trinket change...I mean they're already nerfing pinks...
SanKakU11/8/2018, 7:17:17 PM2 votes

Yeah, even though I am not sure what to think about the Ornn changes, reading all that, it's undeniable that they are bringing more and more damage to the table.

Edmond Ðantès11/13/2018, 5:33:23 PM1 votes

Your poor grammar made this a chore to read. Please keep this in mind. Thank you for an otherwise decent read.

Iota Theta11/8/2018, 8:42:28 PM1 votes

Looks like they added some stuff for Sejuani if you wanted to add that:

Stats:

Base armor increased from 31 to 34 HP per level increased from 88 to 100 Attack Speed Per Level increased from 3 to 4 Armor Per Level increased from 3 to 4

Q:

Arctic Assault (Q) Damage increased from 60/90/120/150/180 to 80/120/160/200/240

W:

Winter's Wrath (W) [Removed] Second hit no longer slows. Second hit damage increased from 30/65/100/135/170 to 30/70/110/140/185

E:

Permafrost (E) Stun duration lowered from 1/1.1/1.2/1.3/1.4 seconds to .8/.9/1/1.1/1.2 seconds Damage increased from 20/35/50/65/80 to 40/100/160/220/280 Range lowered from 850 to 600

Pika Fox11/7/2018, 7:56:17 PM1 votes

Galio is getting work to be less bursty to squishies while retaining damage to tanks.

Ornn is getting reworked to ideally be less abusable in pro while also not having a "free win button". While id like his shield moved to e instead of removed, he can hopefully get buffed to be viable outside pro now.

Liss mains have been begging for a better passive for the longest time.

Rageblade is losing its stacking AD and AP in favor of stacking pen. Its a fine change for it.

Shield bash is fine. Resolve doesnt need "more tankyness". Resolve needs to be more useful to champions who build tanky. We dont need another tank dominant meta, and this allows them to trade in lane if need be, which is what they need.