Inhibitor turrets and nexus turrets no longer slow and reduce damage? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

LegitBacon66·Jun 18, 2015·47 votes·6,534 views

News of Legends " PBE News - League of Legends News and Content

Why are you removing this? The turrets are already horrendously weak. Now you are allowing more diving and its easier to kill people under tower. Cinderhulk is here and we need stronger turrets. Not weaker. Late game this turrets are garbage. Hell even early-mid game they suck and now you are removing power from them. Great. Revert the changes please. The fact that diving easily is a thing is just mind-blowing.

Nexus & Inhibitor Turrets

Attacks no longer slow enemies by 10% or reduce their damage by 15%

http://www.newsoflegends.com/index.php/category/2-pbe-news/

87 Comments

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 18, 20156 votes

If you read the reason they were doing this, it isn't so people can dive easier, its so people who are getting stomped cant just sit under their inhib tower for 30 min and turtle in base, because the turret slows and reduces damage so they wont dive you. Its punishing teams that just sit and hide in base all game after losing laning phase.

LegacyDAPJun 18, 201511 votes

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If you read the reason they were doing this, it isn't so people can dive easier, its so people who are getting stomped cant just sit under their inhib tower for 30 min and turtle in base, because the turret slows and reduces damage so they wont dive you. Its punishing teams that just sit and hide in base all game after losing laning phase.

So no more comebacks? That seems pretty shitty of them to do. If the enemy team pub stomped, and wasn't able to end for 30 minutes while my team is farming, and getting ahead, so they can win the game. Then I think that's the enemies fault. Not ours.

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 18, 20156 votes

That isn't the point, they want you to go out, get dragons team up and catch people out, counter jungle, split push. Things like that to catch up. They dont want you hunkering in base for 20 min trying to cs your way back. That's a toxic way to play and unfun for everyone, they want you to earn your comeback, not get it because its impossible for the enemy to fight you in your base.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20159 votes

if you're that behind, going out period is usually inadvisable

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 18, 20152 votes

maybe, but i agree with riot on this one. Sitting in base turtling just to extend the game is annoying as hell and wont bring you back, it just makes the game longer. However split pushing stealing dragons (maybe baron) counter jungling, effective warding. Thats what brings you back. They want an actual match not just one team being like, welp we are losing, lets just sit in base and hope they make a mistake and dive us.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20155 votes

actually, it often does bring you back. I've had countless games where my team was getting creamed early game and we just turtled under inhib turrets and ultimately came back. if you're a late game team with a weak early, this isn't too uncommon.

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 18, 20152 votes

Thats riot's exact point, they hate this and so do the players. Your plan shouldnt be "we are going to sit under inhib tower and never move so the game wont end and they are forced to dive us to try and win. Thats toxic gameplay and riot knows that. Weakening the towers at inhib and nexus make it so you can no longer do this. You have to go out and earn your comeback instead of waiting for it to be handed to you.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20154 votes

lol first off, I'm pretty sure you're the only one who hates that. turtling has been a thing for years, and there is absolutely nothing toxic about any form of strategic gameplay. if they didn't have it where you had any real form of defending your base, then the game would basically just be whoever wins early game and they might as well delete all late game champs from the game. 90% of the time you are turtling BECAUSE you cant leave base because they are way ahead of you. it would be toxic gameplay if you COULDNT do anything to come back. saying you go out and split push and take dragons isn't an argument because you are turtling for the exact reason that you cant do any of those things. nobody turtles just because they want to wait for late game, they turtle because that's their only way of getting to that late game.

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 18, 20152 votes

That isn't what im saying, what im saying is that if you want to turtle, fine but you dont get an damage reduction and slow on your turret you are huddling around. If the other team can dive you under your turret and ace you they deserve to win. It isnt fair that the turret is so powerful that you can just sit under it and even though the other team got every objective and has been stomping you all game. but i have late game champs hurr durr we can just wait it out until jax has full build and nasus has 800 stacks hurr durrr . The point is if you have a late game team comp then you play safe early dont feed and get to that late game. not get pub stomped then sit under your op ass tower and wait until you reach that late game.

OrbvJun 18, 20154 votes

The issue presently is that the inhibitor turrets are so weak that it is really up to your team to maintain the turtling. You are restricted from doing anything while defending right now, how are you supposed to split push when winions are coming?

And God forbid, if they have baron, the cannon minion will take the turret out by itself.

Riot has a good idea, by reducing these aspects it DOES make it easier to split push to defend yourself.........but at the same time it becomes easier to be pressured as well. So while you are split pushing, the enemy team is just stiff-arming to your nexus turrets.

I think the damage reduction needs to stay, though the slow can be removed.

The turrets used to be really strong. The sad excuse for defense they are now is laughable. A Miss Fortune can tank it for 3-4 seconds, that's really bad.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20155 votes

the turrets aren't even that powerful as is. all you have to do is have your tank go in first, the turrets if anything are simply punishing bad decisions. on top of that, if they are turtling you can take the opportunity to take other objectives and to put pressure on all their lanes.

there's only so much playing safe can do for you. if you are a late game team playing against an early game team, they are going to have an enormous advantage early game unless they are really bad or just playing horribly. and regardless, there's a difference between feeding and getting your towers pushed down. early game teams often are very powerful early pushers. there isn't a single thing wrong with turtling, not one. only reason I can even think of that someone would have a problem with it is if they lost because they couldn't break the turtle. arguing that turtling is toxic is the same as arguing that split pushing is toxic.

ChaoticPineconeJun 19, 20152 votes

dont make assumptions. i hate it too. Turtiling is a thing, but you have to EARN your turtling and defense. You have to pick champions with long-ranged waveclear who can kill minion waves before they hit the tower.

by your logic, you might as well delete all the early-game champions from the game because 90% of the time, the game will go to 45 minutes and you will get outscaled.

I Main SwainJun 19, 20152 votes

no, because turtling is not a hard thing to beat unless they are a team like you said, with long ranged heavy clear. that being said, it can otherwise still take a long time, but turtling isn't toxic in any way whatsoever any more than any other play style.

Duke AnaxJun 19, 20152 votes

exactly. there are so mayn sieging elements in the game that turtling gives you less than a 50/50 chance to come back. If turtling is not possible anymore then it's a 100% loss.

Then surrender at 20 really becomes the only option, because otherwise you'd obnly be wasting time, watching your base slowly get destroyed.

101100111000Jun 18, 20156 votes

You can't even turtle anyway. Cinderhulk + Baron's a thing. If you're turtling, you have no map control so your enemy team can just grab every single objective and just outsiege you with a 3-way Baron split. The idea that a turtle is even a successful strategy against good teams is ridiculous.

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 18, 20152 votes

Which is the reason they are taking it away from being a strategy.

BluePolarizerJun 19, 20154 votes

So now games are won in champ select by whoever has more lane bullies or won off a single lucky FB. Aight.

ChaoticPineconeJun 19, 20152 votes

as opposed to games being won in champ select by whoever has more late-game champions

BluePolarizerJun 19, 20152 votes

right now towers are already laughably weak.

also there's always the possibility to stomp a late game comp in lane and get so far ahead it doesn't matter, but it is much harder to stage a comeback.

ChaoticPineconeJun 19, 20153 votes

really? towers are laughably weak? I dont have the exact numbers, but i remember when "slow" games lasted 45 minutes. Now without a surrender, almost all games last 40-45 minutes. Long games last 55.

Nerfing turrets makes the 'Average Game Length 30-45 minutes" true again.

BluePolarizerJun 19, 20153 votes

if you cannot end while ahead, with dragon's 15% bonus damage to minions and towers, with baron, with Banner of Command (since if you are far ahead, you should build this on support/jg/top/mid) then I don't know what to tell you. I have never had a problem snowballing winning games to gg unless we were severely outcomped, and then we deserve to lose in champ select.

ZileanUltJesusOPJun 19, 20152 votes

no, you are compeltely ignoring what im saying. If you are a late game comp then you get stomped early. But you should be focusing on not feeding and csing to that late game, not saying well we fed early game so we can just be pusses and sit under turret all game. Riot said when they changed this on the pbe that was the reason we are doing this. People would just have a jax jungle and nasus top and just turtle in base if they lost and wait for jax to get full build and nasus to have a shit load of stacks then come out and be unkillable. Riot knows this is unhealthy and toxic gameplay and they addressed it by weakening the turrets. If you get obliterated early game, they will have no problem diving you. So if you play alate game comp instead of saying oh well we can always just fall back into base for 30 min, now you have to actually not feed. Also there is no such thing as a lucky first blood. Either the enemy made a good play or you made a mistake.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20152 votes

if they are an early game team and you are a late game team, especially if you have strong team fighting and/or waveclear, turtling is very much a successful strategy that I have seen and done successfully countless times.

ChaoticPineconeJun 19, 20154 votes

its making a team of 5 lategame champions a little less appealing.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20157 votes

so then this is officially to be the League of Snowballing?

Vistha KaiJun 18, 20158 votes

fyi, there is no "League" anymore.

I don't even know how to call this game anymore.

I Main SwainJun 18, 20157 votes

true......Computer Game Number 423425 of Snowballing

NielarkenJun 19, 20154 votes

Random Fighting of Unassociated Individuals ~~The game~~

I Main SwainJun 19, 20153 votes

can't wait for the sequal

Random Fighting of Unassociated Individuals 2

Gregor GysiJun 19, 20153 votes

Bro shut it, please. You never happened to be there in late S3, right? Currently we have League of S&B, stalling and comebacks. I had games in which I've been 3 Inhis behind and still managed to win the game. Sure that was because of mistakes on the side of the enemy, however it happened ways too easily. The games are in average ways longer than S4, being behind has never meant as little as it does now.

I Main SwainJun 19, 20154 votes

first off, yes I was there in late S3

second, stalling is only easy if you have a team that is built such that defending towers is easy or if the enemy team is just bad at taking advantage of a turtling team.

Gregor GysiJun 19, 20152 votes

Stalling in general is too easy. You don't need the perfect conditions + major failures of the enemy any more, just not doing major mistakes and playing defensive is enough. Also, seeing how you were in Season 3 and Season 4: Do you mean to tell me, that this change to turrets is going to lead to League of Snowballing? The Tower Shield that got introduced made defending easier, the gate negates some positioning mistakes and greatly helps with defending your inhib and last but not least we have a teamfight/tank oriented meta, that excels in the lategame. Consequently the early game/snowballing never meant less for at least the last two season (not sure about season 2, seeing how it was tank meta back then aswell so idk). Your statement, that this change would turn LoL into League of Snowballing is a huge exaggeration and you should know it.

RISE Shlack123Jun 20, 20153 votes

There are plenty of objectives and items that can stop a team from stalling. The entire reason they changed these turrets was to help teams deal with obnoxious split-pushes and help teams come back from one or two bad fights. Those issues were what made the game so snowbally to begin with - and yes I've been around since season 3.

The beefier turrets didn't stop snowballing, but they gave genuinely good players a chance to come back after losing close fights - they never stopped bad teams from getting stomped. If you're losing very close fights, these turrets help. If you're getting ace'd over and again in 5 for 1 or 5 for 2 trades, then the turrets do nothing to help you.

Reverting turrets to forms closer to their season 3 and season 4 counterparts simply because teams don't understand that getting Baron or multiple Dragons is a thing, or because they don't know what items like Banner of Command are for, then you're coddling to a playerbase that has no idea how to win from ahead. This just reinforces bad play overall.

Snake TownJun 18, 20155 votes

Yeah not a huge fan of that change

LICENSED HOOKERJun 18, 20152 votes

i am Tryndamere

LoLKiruJun 18, 20154 votes

Ironically, I'm more afraid of normal turrets currently (as a squishy anyway). Given that for most of the game, they do pretty high damage, so you can't tank more than 1 or 2 hits from them without being put in very bad situations.

Its why one of the dumbest things you can EVER do, is dive someone with easy to land hard CC, even if they die; you'll likely die as well.

WickedfatesJun 18, 20153 votes

to answer ur question this is from a riot post... agree/disagree, this is the reason i have read so far as to why

Meddler (NA)

about 10 hours ago

We originally added the slow (and a -damage mod) to the Nexus/Inihb towers as an anti split pushing effect, at a time where we were concerned that split push was leading to low interaction games. That's currently not the case however, very much the opposite in fact, with heavy team fight comps crowding out split push almost entirely. We're not looking to make split pushing a staple of every game, but do think we've limited it too much, hence the removal of those effects.

In terms of the broader purpose of towers it is intended that the risk they pose to enemy champions decreases over the course of the game. Early on they're zones of sanctuary, where it's extremely risky to try and go in for a kill much of the time. Over time they transition to a helper role instead. Towers will turn the tide of a close fight, but they're not going to be more dangerous than an enemy champion anymore. Late game in particular, once everyone's past the individual laning period, it's the presence of teammates instead that provides substantial zones of safety/support. Powerful late game towers, particularly if they can be held by a couple of champions against a full enemy team, result in slower, drawn out, low risk/interaction games.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/ckORctjz-meddler-turrets-are-depressingly-weak-and-still-getting-a-nerf-on-pbe-why?comment=000b

Biff ManlyJun 18, 20153 votes

So... what we're seeing here is #LC$BigPlays?

bvcderrttyyhjjjkJun 18, 20152 votes

Wether you want weaker or stronger turrets is a matter of personal preference. But I can guess that they are doing the change to prevent games for going 40+ minutes every time even if a team clearly has the lead. They are probably trying to shorten average game lenght.

KidKaiserJun 18, 20152 votes

run a normals 5v5 blind pick.

build an early all mid siege team.

anything with Blitzcrank works. gonna need at least one adc. Jinx Sivir Ashe works. and 1 wave clear. or 2. wouldn't matter. you and your team can decide.

then proceed to all mid lvl1. and rekto towers. if the enemy comes. bust some blitz grabs and insta nukes.

once u hit inhib turrets. they deal minuscule damage compared to inner/outer turrets. lvl1 squishies can tank them.

Icestar1186Jun 24, 20151 votes

Level 1 squishies can't tank anything. Inhib turrets can do significant damage even late in the game unless you're a tank. I don't think this strategy would work.

KidKaiserJun 24, 20151 votes

im talking about 8min inhib turrets. like lvl2/3's swap tanking that mid inhib turret. which u shouldn't do. but it definitely makes tower diving much MUCH easier compared to outer and inner turrets.

but you're gonna need tons of pressure to pull it off. which is why having a Blitzcrank is so important.

Icestar1186Jun 25, 20151 votes

I'm sorry, but any competent team should be able to kill you if you are tanking inhib turrets at level 3.

KidKaiserJun 25, 20151 votes

but then i did mention blind normals 5v5 O.O

here's an old video. not sure if you've been through the [Get Olaf'd] era. but this is the reason why.

starts at 3:33:33~ team push

Icestar1186Jun 25, 20151 votes

Old
Highly conditional
They weren't tanking turrets at level three.

Icestar1186Jun 24, 20151 votes

This change won't do much to tanks, since the damage is unchanged. It just frees up splitpushers to... splitpush.

AMYS GRAVEJun 25, 20151 votes

It will increase the pace of the game, meaning there is less time for the tanks to scale, meaning they never hit their power points. Tanks will fall out of favor because they never feel satisfying to play because they can't get to the late game, and with fewer tanks squishier champions will become more prevalent and the era of assassins will return. Runeglaive is already a push in that direction for bursty AP mage junglers instead of the cc tank junglers.

Icestar1186Jun 25, 20151 votes

By the time you're on the inhib turrets, tanks are already tanky.

AMYS GRAVEJun 25, 20151 votes

they aren't even at their final form.

StrawberrycocoaJun 24, 20151 votes

They mentioned in the notes that they want to re-enable splitpushing to be more effective. I suppose less risk in getting tower-sniped works for that.