Its either complete stomps and you already know who is going to win
Or its for the first 20 minutes the teams don't do anything because they know that one team fight will judge their loss
Or it is a 40+ min scrap of teams endlessly split pushing because towers are so weak (I.E. CLG vs IMT)
There is no actual mechanical play or team fights. You just see people blowing each other up.
TNHA Baritone70 votesSame champs too
hopeful416 votesThere are overlap issues in the game which arent fixable with number buffs/nerfs. Dont expect any real diversity until the roster updates are finished (for example after the marksman update pretty much all ADCs have seen play this split except Twitch, albeit Corki and Lucian being overtuned and getting picked way more often than the rest of the ADCs)
This why these forums piss me off, on one hand you want diversity in pro games on the other hand you get in arms when roster updates/champion reworks are announced. Currently pros will just pick the strongest tank/assasin/bruiser of the patch, because the majority of the other champions in the class do the same thing, just worse.
Not that Riot is innocent in the issue ofc. Them releasing a ton of similar champions in previous seasons is how LoL got into this mess in the first place
Penta Penguin11 votesTeemo hasn't seen competitive play since 2005
rtbf22561824131 votes2005....
Rew71110 votesJust for those that want to know, League of Legends was released in 2009. In beta probably as early as 2007. If this aliceandsven was trying to be silly, I say that person should continue. Nothing wrong with trying to make people laugh a little (unless its to be mean).
Bizzping5 votesAdditionally Hai played teemo against TSM in like season 3. Its when his shrooms got nerfed
High58 votesNew season, same complaints.
The irony is that 70+ champs were played last year at Worlds and it was far worse to watch than this.
This was a bad week to complain about LCS. The matches yesterday were actually pretty exciting. IMT should've lost.
NA teams are lazy when it comes to trying new things. One of TSM's many reasons for being mediocre this year. The Ever game was disgusting and they should've taken more grief for that loss.
Huni is he only bright spot and he obviously came from EU's undefeated team last year.
The only reason we're seeing Jihn is because EU pulled it out in Poland two weeks ago. Same with ADC Kennen last year.
There's a reason NA has been the weakest region for 18 months now. Poland is just the latest example of NA's mediocrity.
Having said all that, it's time to get rid of lane swaps. They're just 8 mins of purely scripted play.
Gearpower2 votesTo nitpick, Sneaky has put in a lot of time on Jhin since release, Everything else is pretty true though
UnderscorBunnies4 votesJust nitpicking here, but even if Jhin was played competitively before Sneaky did it, the second Jhin was released, Sneaky played an OBSCENE amount of Jhin, and probably expressed interest in playing him competitively (not entirely sure on this part, just assuming), so It's not like anyone paved the way for anyone else.
PermaFreeze8 votesthe patch before juggernauts was the best imo. everything seemed within reasonable balance.
As for your comments about NA though, that isnt really true. Jhin first saw competitive play with C9 vs IMT. NA is actually quite adaptive among good teams. The problem is lower tier teams only know how to copy.
As for lane swaps, I agree. In a macro sense, they're hard to pull off and can give worse teams a lead ( see FNC vs SKT ) but aren't exciting for viewers and band-aid many problems that NA and EU have vs KR teams.
Snowplosion2 votesThey are the same champs every season because they aren't going to stray from what is good.
TheLegionofDark33 votesThis started out as a joke, but I would love to see this. They should just allow champions to be picked only once for series of matches. Forces new champion selects that aren't the always go to champs and would force variety of champions and strategies(possibly). Don't ask me for much more than this. Like I said it started out as a joke comment but I thought it would actually be kind of cool.
Madra16 votesSome games are still fun to watch. Many are not. To be fair, though, until the best of 5s start in the playoffs, we really won't know the competitive quality of this season. There are too many "Best in Role" champions that get picked again and again and Riot doesn't seem to have any issue with it. And instead of balancing, they are basically anointing their chosen champions. Viewers tired of watching Elise and Rek'sai game after game? "Take these buffs, Gragas! Maybe Crumbzz will be able to win an LCS game!".
hopeful45 votesViewers tired of watching Elise and Rek'sai game after game? "Take these buffs, Gragas!
Are you implying that Gragas didnt need buffs? Also i dont think that Reksai and Elise suddenly became unviable after the Gragas buffs, they are still getting picked. Along with other junglers like Kindred, Graves, Lee, Udyr, Nidalee, even cheesy stuff like Rumble jungle.
As long as a champion is distinctive enough he will always see play, unless his numbers are way off. Zac or Amumu for example arent distinctive at all (worse versions of Seju) so unless their numbers are buffed to OP status they will remain unpicked.
Dataless13 votesWatching EU LCS be like, "lane swaps. all day every day." vertical double jungling and 4 v 0 tower pushes, while mid lane is a farm fest. This is NOT how the game was intended to be played, yet here we are and Riot does.... nothing.
Verdade12 votesBack in the old days things were better.... OH WAIT! S1&2- people complaining about hog/philo junglers with much higher income than laners League of Assassins Metagolem - League of Atmogs People complaining about supports buying just boots in 50min game, spending all their gold on vision
Seriously, this meta is pretty diverse. Poke comps are thing, as are engage comps, ADC-centric comps and pick comps. Assassins, ADCs and tanks are playable. Mages fill their role pretty well, as do supports. Burden of vision is divided between everyone, not centered as much around support. This meta is one of best metas we had, people just like complain about everything.
Half of boards is complaining about assassins being too oppresive and OP while banning Malph, Naut, Rammus and Tahm every game The rest complains about ADCs being too durable and tanks having too much damage... Seriously, you guys wanted "defensive options for ADCs" back in s4-s5, because you were paper when playing them. Old pre-rework Kog'maw had like twice as much damage, but suddently he's a problem.
As for LCS, if you don't like don't watch, simple as that.
Dataless4 votesWhy is it that the first thing people assume is that I'm being nostalgic? "Back in the old days" was a TERRIBLE time for League, I'm a support player. Every season has made my role better.
Korillo11 votesLCS and in general competitive play is incredibly boring to watch atm because every strategy is a 3-0 or 4-0 push in opposite lanes as long as they can do it, often pushing all the way to an inhibitor turret and occasionally even farther. It's basically a match of chicken for the first 8-10 minutes and it completely sucks.
It would be much more interesting to see actual lane matchups early on, but this isn't the optimal path to obtaining early gold gains so teams are unlikely to change this strategy unless something in the game is changed.
LegitBacon662 votesYeah, duo bot lanes never fight they just base race
boosted frog9 votesYesterday's dig vs imt game was pretty good imo
Xonra8 votesYesterday's dig vs imt game was pretty good imo
That game highlighted what is wrong with the Meta more than anything.
Dig somehow had a good lead on IMT, but one mistake, and suddenly silly death timers and IMT comes back hard. DIG pushes back and a few more die, and that's GG because Death timers are just ridiculous.
No real strategy, just hold out till death timers are a week long, win one fight, and you win, lead or not. That is boring and despite the casters freaking out, it wasn't exciting at all. I actually sighed and had to mute the casters, then just watching the game on mute, I realized just how boring it really was.
gottrjr5 votesThat game highlighted what is wrong with the Meta more than anything.
Dig somehow had a good lead on IMT, but one mistake, and suddenly silly death timers and IMT comes back hard. DIG pushes back and a few more die, and that's GG because Death timers are just ridiculous.
No real strategy, just hold out till death timers are a week long, win one fight, and you win, lead or not. That is boring and despite the casters freaking out, it wasn't exciting at all. I actually sighed and had to mute the casters, then just watching the game on mute, I realized just how boring it really was.
So I just finished watching that match based on the first poster's review. I think that game had more issues than just the death timers. Gragas getting a bunch of kills early when the carries should have gotten them. Poor positioning by Jhin multiple times. Getting out farmed by IMT carries. Poor focus in team fights. Not respecting TF damage (building swift instead of merc). IMT had more damage.
The one thing that I got out of that game was that graves is far too strong and has been AND riot is not doing anything about it.
Karfuss8 votesI stopped watching LCS when mains became 'whatever is strong in this meta.' That was the point where unparalleled mechanical ability with a players favourite champion was made redundant by lesser knowledge of a broken champions kit, and Riot encouraged that behaviour.
I understand why players do it, they want their cash prize, though it became a game of 'who picks Fiora/Morgana/Elise/Rengar/<insert whoever has been dominant in any season> first?' rather than the surprise token, fan favourite pick.
DOTA's pro scene, on the other hand, allows more room for players to pick whatever they want. It's more unexpected, unpredictable and that makes it more fun to watch. The meta is solid and doesn't morph into something completely different on a few rounds of nerfs, and thus you're allowed more freedom to experiment around it.
Riot have entered this habit of balancing their game by nerfing the strongest champions, and it's a bad habit to fall in to. The meta becomes unstable, players default to the stronger champions as their safety net and you enter this vicious cycle that effects us, the viewers. To counteract the mess they've created, they need to start buffing other champions to balance their game for them.
We saw this when ADC got their itemization changes, and saw the rise of armour scaling champions like Rammus and Malphite. If things were left as they were, the meta would've balanced out on its own. Less people would play ADC in every role, Rammus' and Malphite's tyranny would die out and you create a level playing field. Instead, with Riot's infinite wisdom, Rammus and Malphite became the standout champions and received a few hits to curve their win rate and the ADC meta continued unchecked. What happened? The rise of assassins, and the assassin vs ADC meta we're lumped with now. Who can burst who down first? Boring to play, boring to watch.
Seenan2 votesI stopped watching LCS when mains became 'whatever is strong in this meta.' That was the point where unparalleled mechanical ability with a players favourite champion was made redundant by lesser knowledge of a broken champions kit, and Riot encouraged that behaviour.
I understand why players do it, they want their cash prize, though it became a game of 'who picks Fiora/Morgana/Elise/Rengar/<insert whoever has been dominant in any season> first?' rather than the surprise token, fan favourite pick.
DOTA's pro scene, on the other hand, allows more room for players to pick whatever they want. It's more unexpected, unpredictable and that makes it more fun to watch. The meta is solid and doesn't morph into something completely different on a few rounds of nerfs, and thus you're allowed more freedom to experiment around it.
Riot have entered this habit of balancing their game by nerfing the strongest champions, and it's a bad habit to fall in to. The meta becomes unstable, players default to the stronger champions as their safety net and you enter this vicious cycle that effects us, the viewers. To counteract the mess they've created, they need to start buffing other champions to balance their game for them.
We saw this when ADC got their itemization changes, and saw the rise of armour scaling champions like Rammus and Malphite. If things were left as they were, the meta would've balanced out on its own. Less people would play ADC in every role, Rammus' and Malphite's tyranny would die out and you create a level playing field. Instead, with Riot's infinite wisdom, Rammus and Malphite became the standout champions and received a few hits to curve their win rate and the ADC meta continued unchecked. What happened? The rise of assassins, and the assassin vs ADC meta we're lumped with now. Who can burst who down first? Boring to play, boring to watch.
I wouldn't say DOTA's diverse atm. Obsidian Destroyer, Lion (kinda), Vengeful Spirit, Slark, Invoker (did I forget any?) are pretty much nearly every game picks...Not that I'm saying it's not diverse, but it's..bland.
NotClarkolas7 votesOnly people who have zero appreciation for strategy would say that current lcs is boring. A lot of the games this season are using strats we have never seen in any previous seasons. And games are not always a stomp, thats simply false. CLG vs IMT was a very exciting game, I don't know how you could possibly say otherwise lmao.
KakitaMike4 votesI think fights are more interesting for people to watch, in general. Hockey and chess both require strategy to win, but I feel like more people would enjoy watching a hockey game than chess. It feels like right now, the strategy of LoL is hold out until one person on the other side makes a mistake pre-teamfight, then capitalize and win. I think people want more back and forth, rather than one fell swoop.
Cavemantero2 votesAnd games are not always a stomp, thats simply false.
you haven't watched previous seasons then or you like the current meta which is trash. The games are stomps. When you can gank dive a tower and kill the adc with over half health that is a stomp. The damage is ridiculous. When a team fight happens early, whoever wins, snowballs and the game is over. The towers are busted down so quick the 'strategy' you speak of is really non existent. The strategy is blow the other team up first and don't die. There's no real risks now. You dive a turret you will get a kill and go away unscratched as long as you have the numbers advantage. So predictable....
NGO Maleficent2 votesWhen pick and ban gets predictable, you know this game has a problem. In the past, people had their legendary picks you wouldn't leave up for them, even at the expense of strong picks in the meta, Faker had his LB, INSec had his Lee Sin and Rengar and Marin had his Rumble and Maokai. In the S4 worlds, almost every team threw Lee Sin and Rengar bans at SHRC, leaving the possibility of Alistair at 90% ban rate or Zilean at 80% ban rate. Now, it's more about the picks rather than the player on the champion because of how homogeneous the strong champions are and how far superior they are to the next tier. For example, this week, if anyone banned Kalista, you could almost guarantee a Jhin ban coming back the other way which is boringly predictable.
Only Play Darius6 votesI stopped watching LCS. Same champions every game diversity is even worse than last season
gottrjr6 votesChamp diversity is almost non-existent. LCS needs a rotating champion pool to force different picks.
Xonra7 votesChamp diversity is almost non-existent. LCS needs a rotating champion pool to force different picks.
I don't blame the pros for that one. If Riot could balance as a whole and knew how to do anything but make 2-3 champs in a role balanced, then diversity would sky rocket. As it is, the item balance is TERRIBLE which forces a lot of champs out, the ADC "meta" is forcing champs out, the overlapping roles of champs are forcing a good portion of them out, and just terrible balance is forcing them out.
Can't fault the players for picking what is clearly the best champs, as boring as it is for us that are watching.
blfUvZ8Ybu6 votesYes.Weak towers and every game same champions.
DREADN0UGHT5 votesAgreed. Bring Cinderhulk meta back.
XxDonnie2 votes
Agreed.
JavelinJoe5 votesDon't forget:
DemoGuide4 votesIts been boring since season 3.
iainB854 votesMy LCS watching has greatly declined compared to last season. I agree the changes have made the game less enjoyable and less enjoyable to watch.
FancyKiwi4 votesI feel like its gotten this slow and boring because of how punishing Riot has been dying. No team wants to risk dying to an early gank and being put far behind so they do everything to avoid dying. TSM is a perfect example of this safe, risk adverse play and it is so boring to watch.
Truly Prideful3 votesYeah, I used to actually watch the matches but they are so slow and boring this season that I can't be bothered to. Just stupid to watch the game end on a single Baron at 30 minutes. Even worse when nothing actually happened for the 30 minutes before that Baron.
Xonra4 votesYeah, I used to actually watch the matches but they are so slow and boring this season that I can't be bothered to. Just stupid to watch the game end on a single Baron at 30 minutes. Even worse when nothing actually happened for the 30 minutes before that Baron.
Honestly I feel that way about the Korean games more than anything. I would watch OGN (LCK now) for the high level play and strategy. The problem is, the highest level play is even MORE boring, because the games are even more so a one-sided stomp, or just teams finding every way not to fight for 30 minutes because that is the best strategy right now. I mean it is to the point that when a team has a lead half the time at 20 minutes Monte and Doa are calling the game over, and sometimes before that. Even they are talking about the games being boring.
NA and EU might be clown fiestas sometimes, but at least it makes it entertaining for the "watching a train wreck" factor. The "good" games are just so boring to watch I don't bother sometimes.
Tamuut3 votesSo how would you fix these things?
LegitBacon666 votesAdd green wards Beef up towers Nerf some items
EvilRabbitt5 votesI'm only bronze but my list:
Make towers more dangerous by adding utility not damage. Tier 1 reduces your outgoing damage by 10% (ap and ad, autos, etc). Tier 2 reduces your movespeed and attack speed as well tier 1 bonuses. Tier 3 reduces your healing stacked with t1/t2 bonuses. That way diving is not a case of "I might die" but "can I actually do it?".
Set death timers back to something normal. 60 seconds dead is immense and should happen past the 35 minute mark not before.
NERF ALL DAMAGE. All of it. Nerf stats, nerf everything. Serious moment: This game has too much damage bundled everywhere. Bought a Titanic? Grats you're now an assassin because that active resets autos unlike Ravenous or Tiamat (unless you're Riven) while having high burst. Maw has too much mr for the ad/pen it grants. Get rid of that. Steraks is just way too good, -5% would be a sizable nerf to damage while keeping its theme together (meaning the base ad bonus not something else). Reduce Reavers; cdr you can get 30% off one item which is too much. Give ap mages real ap items. Get an ad version of zhonyas and an ap version of duskblade. Nerf and Equalize- the ad metagame is too strong.
Update Binary kits even if its just 1 or 2 skills. Annie and Taric are no longer acceptable in those states. Binary kits that just say "do or do not" is not ok. Fiora is instantly lcs because she's no longer a stat check "can i kill? yes, kill. no? wait a sec". Same on Poppy.
Review your masteries. In no case should I have to contest mastery picks that provide the same function- Deathfire and Thunderlord are too similar. You choose them based on the stats unless your kit has enough aoe application for dft to be good. Update runes and clear everyone of t1 to t2 runes, make t3 buyable at the start up for new players and rename them to just runes not tier 3 runes.
Recheck itemization. No one wants Doran Shield, but everyone wants Sword and Ring. That means the inherent value of Shield is so low thats not even worth buying to get an early advantage, whereas sword and ring are.
So on so forth. Just my thoughts :C I tend to be wrong.
magic pole3 votesi've seen a few good games but i tend to agree :/
open the player builds/match history thing on the Esports game on any professional game. The part where you can stalk pros' builds..
if you click the match overview, most games tend to have a fairly constant slope until the end of the game...meaning in general the first team to take a gold advantage keeps it until they win. They grow it little by little by pressing that small advantage while the opposing team avoids any risk and consequently falls further and further behind, objective by objective. Eventually they will be forced to make a move, but the winning team dictates the game, plays to their win condition typically leaving little opening for a comeback, unless some big mistake "throw" is made
This is mostly a professional league problem...solo Q is so disorganized that unless youre playing very high elo, or you completely shat the bed and fed your lane 4+ kills, you almost always have some opportunity to come back for a win. The long death timers and weak towers give you that chance...
in pro play, however, these players are so skilled they make very few mistakes. Thus, once someone gains an advantage, they typically keep it unless they make a monumental mistake. This happens sometimes, we see gold leads flipped and big swings...but yeah mostly it's the, "first team to get a lead keeps it by playing hyper-cautiously until they everntually win through attrition"
idk, every season has its FotM optimal picks for each role. That's always been the case and still is...however i think that basically the optimal way to play the macro game translates to boring as fuck matches for the viewers. The game seems more punishing now than in the past, hence the already risk averse pros are even more risk averse these days
ModAttysu The Poro3 votesUsed to watch LCS for hours straight.
Now I watch it for 5 minutes go "Yep this is all of the stream" and then go watch Foxdroplol/Magikarpusedfly/Frost Prime/Boxbox
Stammer63 votesI still blame the new masteries for how stompy games are now. Nothing quite beats adding free 20% lifesteal, 200 on-hit damage, or 400 instant AoE burst damage to a kit. I get that they want keystones to be powerful and impactful. But come on, they're masteries, not fully-built end-game items.
The Sword Saint2 votesIt's almost like they're playing a strategy game instead of a twitch reflex contest.
Secretlolz2 votesWell, pros are going to abuse the strongest strategies. This is not on their side, is Riot's fault for messing up the season. Highly punishing game mechanics proved to be bad in soloQ, now it is also translating to tournaments in the form of everyone playing very pasive to avoid those super hard punishments you get by doing a single mistake.
I think the one single thing I dislike the most about this season is how everything feels made of paper. Towers, objetives, champions, minions, monsters, everything just desintegrates so fast. They overloaded the game with damage and now It feels so dumb
